thorrshamri
Moderator/The French Viking Moderathorr
What follows is a series of personal thoughts, mainly led - at least I hope so- by observation, common sense and some scientific well-known points.
Reptiles at large show a remarkable uniformity as regards some aspects of their nutrition.
Example #1: geckos will react to particular movements of prey insects, just like snakes will react to typical movements of rodents. Try to offer a dead insect to a gecko with forceps, it will be much more difficult to have the gecko eat it than if you keep the insects alive and let them move in a natural way within geckos' visual scope.
It can be understood with simple logic. First, hunting instincts. Then, we know the senses of sight and smell do play a major role in predation.
Sometimes comparing geckos (or reptiles at large) to human leads to completely wrong clichés and conclusions, sometimes it brings explanations.
We the French sometimes eat live food- oysters for example. A dead oyster is likely to contain harmful bacteria which come right after the death of the oyster. Only live ones are healthy, and you can get very sick by eating a dead one. How do we know it's alive? Because it's moving, in its own way, and also because dead oysters smell bad for us. See the analogy?
If inside the same tank there are dead insects, they will be ignored. There are few scavengers among reptiles, mainly crocs and monitor lizards. Thus the interest to remove dead insects during the daily cleaning routine to avoid bacterial and fungal development. Hence too, the importance of offering live food in a perfect condition and as naturally as possible- feeding dishes or forceps could lead to "bad habits", even if I reckon it is pleasant to interact with one's own geckos in such moments. In my opinion, to inhibit the natural hunting behavior of any captive reptile is a mistake (except in the case of live rodents fed to snakes, which is a clear no-no).
Now I still don't understand why we see tons of canned dead insects and dried up fruitflies in pet stores. Most geckos I have had never ate them, in spite of the "artificial appetizers" used in such products. Has anyone a valid explanation or positive experiences with these? Yet I'm skeptical. Take fresh green peas and canned ones, as far as taste and nutrition goes, there is no possible comparison.
Example #2- Toxicity:
I am not here to tell how I started with reptiles, just let me tell you this. One of my first pet reptile was an Uromastyx, soon followed by others. I read and learned which food was toxic for them. Tomatoes, potatoes and their leaves, ivy leaves, lettuce...all are either too rich in water and will cause more or less serious diarrheas or contain toxins which does affect reptiles. Turtles are likewise sensitive to the same toxins.
One commonly shared feature among reptiles at large is that pine, cedar, willow wood should be avoided as a bedding or as planks for wooden tanks, as they hold phenols which are toxic to snakes and lizards alike.
That said, one will object there is no vegetarian, or purely vegetarian gecko. True. But the food chain effect is such that what you feed feeder insects is underestimated.
If you feed tomatoes to crickets, or raw potatoes, they will maybe eat them without any ill effect on them. Now, this toxicity will probably affect geckos.
Morality: be extremely careful about what you feed your gutloaded insects. Dog pellets are for example a much better choice for roaches and crickets than cat pellets, because the latter contains taurine, another potential toxin on the long term for reptiles. Check charts and tables about what is toxic for f.e. green iguanas, uromastyx and turtles and you will know what shall never be given to prey insects.
Example #3 - From skinniness to obesity.
What is true for humans is also true, for the same biological reasons, for reptiles. A too fat gecko will run risks for its health and will be less fertile, that is a proven fact. On the contrary, skinny geckos (when it is not a particular feature of the species such as Agamura sp. or Ptyodactylus which might look skinny to those who have never seen some before), in that case food rich in proteins and amino-acids, with added calcium and vitamins, will help. I have used quite successfully, over short periods of time, either thawed pinkie mice when the size of the species allows it, or liquid nutrients such as the ones used in human hospitals on patients who cannot eat normally or are losing weight too fast. Just buy some and keep it in an ice cube container in case of need, it will be usable for months.
Example #4 -Not all gecko species have the same needs.
While certain species or genuses such as Uroplatus, Pachydactylus, Chondrodactylus, Ptyodactylus, Tropiocolotes...will need frequent meals to stay healthy and to produce fertile eggs, geckos which are able to store subsequent amounts of fat in their tails should not be fed so often or might become obese faster than the above-mentionned species.
I take here again the Uromastyx example: when millions of locusts come around all of a sudden near them, they will eat as much locusts as they can take. Probably because, in spite of being almost pure vegetarians, the smell and sight of locusts awakens their appetite, but also because it's a crucial intake of proteins and other nutrients which lasts at best for a few days every year.
In some cases, keepers often have a wrong vision of the reality of some biotopes. Take the New Caledonian geckos: insects are NOT as readily available as one would think. It is not because they live in "rainforests" that there is not several subtypes of rainforests. In New Caledonia, edible insects are not that common, which explains the adaptation of these insular geckos to prey on smaller vertebrates, other geckos, fruit and nectars.
So, before having certitudes in mind, make sure your conceptions of the gecko species you want to buy or are actually keeping are true and realistic.
Be also aware that quite a few species will need an alternance of fasting periods with periods of abundance of prey. Not only during brumation, but f.e. in desert biotopes, insects of a given species hatch within a very short time then food sources become scarce again.
Example #5 - Varied food?
Obviously one will never be able to offer as much food diversity in captivity than in the wild.
Now, some newbies tend to forget the nutritional value of, f.e., fruit, commercialized ready-made food, and live insects is very different.
Some others will give as much variety of prey insects as possible.
Well, if these insects are fed with the same greens, pellets or vegs, isn't there a risk you try to bring variety but paradoxically you reduce the nutrients variety?
I believe feeding insects properly is of crucial importance; not only as regards calcium issues, but mainly about different amino-acids, proteins, different sorts of fat, fiber, vitamins...so feeders themselves should be offered a maximum of varied food, or else your efforts to offer roaches, crickets and other insects will be in vain.
Another human analogy: take a beefsteak from the supermarket, from cows raised industrially and fed with human-made food, in polluted areas. Now compare it with the same meat from cows fed outside and left grazing on pastures, in cleaner areas. It still looks the same, but the intake and effect on your organism will be different!
Using these thoughts, do we really need to offer many sorts of prey to our geckos to make them "healthy"?
I guess the answer is: it depends on what you feed them, how and with which frequency. Feeding crickets and only that to tons of species of geckos, as long as the said crickets are offered a variety of herbs, greens, veg, has proven to be healthy for our animals.
Fruit is readily accepted by day geckos and most New Caledonians (and other species), yet they are very low in protein so they do not really help your geckos growing fast. Now that is completely different if you feed varied fruit to crickets, locusts or whatever you use as a staple diet.
I also see a major objection to "commercial food" for geckos when used as a regular, staple diet: since their contents will remain the same, there will be no variety in the geckos diet. Certainly, it helps people who do not like to keep live insects at home and may be used when live insect orders are difficult -in the middle of winter or summer. But to me, these food such as CGD and all other industrial products will never replace properly gut-loaded insects.
Now I will tell people who are against keeping live insects at home: choose a vegetarian reptile, not a gecko.
Extreme? Maybe. Again, this is just my experience and thoughts and I am opened to any serious debate with people who know their stuff.
Reptiles at large show a remarkable uniformity as regards some aspects of their nutrition.
Example #1: geckos will react to particular movements of prey insects, just like snakes will react to typical movements of rodents. Try to offer a dead insect to a gecko with forceps, it will be much more difficult to have the gecko eat it than if you keep the insects alive and let them move in a natural way within geckos' visual scope.
It can be understood with simple logic. First, hunting instincts. Then, we know the senses of sight and smell do play a major role in predation.
Sometimes comparing geckos (or reptiles at large) to human leads to completely wrong clichés and conclusions, sometimes it brings explanations.
We the French sometimes eat live food- oysters for example. A dead oyster is likely to contain harmful bacteria which come right after the death of the oyster. Only live ones are healthy, and you can get very sick by eating a dead one. How do we know it's alive? Because it's moving, in its own way, and also because dead oysters smell bad for us. See the analogy?
If inside the same tank there are dead insects, they will be ignored. There are few scavengers among reptiles, mainly crocs and monitor lizards. Thus the interest to remove dead insects during the daily cleaning routine to avoid bacterial and fungal development. Hence too, the importance of offering live food in a perfect condition and as naturally as possible- feeding dishes or forceps could lead to "bad habits", even if I reckon it is pleasant to interact with one's own geckos in such moments. In my opinion, to inhibit the natural hunting behavior of any captive reptile is a mistake (except in the case of live rodents fed to snakes, which is a clear no-no).
Now I still don't understand why we see tons of canned dead insects and dried up fruitflies in pet stores. Most geckos I have had never ate them, in spite of the "artificial appetizers" used in such products. Has anyone a valid explanation or positive experiences with these? Yet I'm skeptical. Take fresh green peas and canned ones, as far as taste and nutrition goes, there is no possible comparison.
Example #2- Toxicity:
I am not here to tell how I started with reptiles, just let me tell you this. One of my first pet reptile was an Uromastyx, soon followed by others. I read and learned which food was toxic for them. Tomatoes, potatoes and their leaves, ivy leaves, lettuce...all are either too rich in water and will cause more or less serious diarrheas or contain toxins which does affect reptiles. Turtles are likewise sensitive to the same toxins.
One commonly shared feature among reptiles at large is that pine, cedar, willow wood should be avoided as a bedding or as planks for wooden tanks, as they hold phenols which are toxic to snakes and lizards alike.
That said, one will object there is no vegetarian, or purely vegetarian gecko. True. But the food chain effect is such that what you feed feeder insects is underestimated.
If you feed tomatoes to crickets, or raw potatoes, they will maybe eat them without any ill effect on them. Now, this toxicity will probably affect geckos.
Morality: be extremely careful about what you feed your gutloaded insects. Dog pellets are for example a much better choice for roaches and crickets than cat pellets, because the latter contains taurine, another potential toxin on the long term for reptiles. Check charts and tables about what is toxic for f.e. green iguanas, uromastyx and turtles and you will know what shall never be given to prey insects.
Example #3 - From skinniness to obesity.
What is true for humans is also true, for the same biological reasons, for reptiles. A too fat gecko will run risks for its health and will be less fertile, that is a proven fact. On the contrary, skinny geckos (when it is not a particular feature of the species such as Agamura sp. or Ptyodactylus which might look skinny to those who have never seen some before), in that case food rich in proteins and amino-acids, with added calcium and vitamins, will help. I have used quite successfully, over short periods of time, either thawed pinkie mice when the size of the species allows it, or liquid nutrients such as the ones used in human hospitals on patients who cannot eat normally or are losing weight too fast. Just buy some and keep it in an ice cube container in case of need, it will be usable for months.
Example #4 -Not all gecko species have the same needs.
While certain species or genuses such as Uroplatus, Pachydactylus, Chondrodactylus, Ptyodactylus, Tropiocolotes...will need frequent meals to stay healthy and to produce fertile eggs, geckos which are able to store subsequent amounts of fat in their tails should not be fed so often or might become obese faster than the above-mentionned species.
I take here again the Uromastyx example: when millions of locusts come around all of a sudden near them, they will eat as much locusts as they can take. Probably because, in spite of being almost pure vegetarians, the smell and sight of locusts awakens their appetite, but also because it's a crucial intake of proteins and other nutrients which lasts at best for a few days every year.
In some cases, keepers often have a wrong vision of the reality of some biotopes. Take the New Caledonian geckos: insects are NOT as readily available as one would think. It is not because they live in "rainforests" that there is not several subtypes of rainforests. In New Caledonia, edible insects are not that common, which explains the adaptation of these insular geckos to prey on smaller vertebrates, other geckos, fruit and nectars.
So, before having certitudes in mind, make sure your conceptions of the gecko species you want to buy or are actually keeping are true and realistic.
Be also aware that quite a few species will need an alternance of fasting periods with periods of abundance of prey. Not only during brumation, but f.e. in desert biotopes, insects of a given species hatch within a very short time then food sources become scarce again.
Example #5 - Varied food?
Obviously one will never be able to offer as much food diversity in captivity than in the wild.
Now, some newbies tend to forget the nutritional value of, f.e., fruit, commercialized ready-made food, and live insects is very different.
Some others will give as much variety of prey insects as possible.
Well, if these insects are fed with the same greens, pellets or vegs, isn't there a risk you try to bring variety but paradoxically you reduce the nutrients variety?
I believe feeding insects properly is of crucial importance; not only as regards calcium issues, but mainly about different amino-acids, proteins, different sorts of fat, fiber, vitamins...so feeders themselves should be offered a maximum of varied food, or else your efforts to offer roaches, crickets and other insects will be in vain.
Another human analogy: take a beefsteak from the supermarket, from cows raised industrially and fed with human-made food, in polluted areas. Now compare it with the same meat from cows fed outside and left grazing on pastures, in cleaner areas. It still looks the same, but the intake and effect on your organism will be different!
Using these thoughts, do we really need to offer many sorts of prey to our geckos to make them "healthy"?
I guess the answer is: it depends on what you feed them, how and with which frequency. Feeding crickets and only that to tons of species of geckos, as long as the said crickets are offered a variety of herbs, greens, veg, has proven to be healthy for our animals.
Fruit is readily accepted by day geckos and most New Caledonians (and other species), yet they are very low in protein so they do not really help your geckos growing fast. Now that is completely different if you feed varied fruit to crickets, locusts or whatever you use as a staple diet.
I also see a major objection to "commercial food" for geckos when used as a regular, staple diet: since their contents will remain the same, there will be no variety in the geckos diet. Certainly, it helps people who do not like to keep live insects at home and may be used when live insect orders are difficult -in the middle of winter or summer. But to me, these food such as CGD and all other industrial products will never replace properly gut-loaded insects.
Now I will tell people who are against keeping live insects at home: choose a vegetarian reptile, not a gecko.
Extreme? Maybe. Again, this is just my experience and thoughts and I am opened to any serious debate with people who know their stuff.
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