Crocodile Gecko Shedding Issues

[Embrace Calamity]

So I have a crocodile gecko. I got her last year probably in September. The guy who had her had no idea what he was doing, and she had several minor issues, but she's been healthy since. She's always eaten and shed fine (except one spot on her head that developed scar tissue from an infected cut she had when I got her).

Unfortunately, winter hit all of a sudden here, and the humidity in her enclosure dropped just enough for her to have one bad shed. The only part I couldn't get off was over her eye. The local vet wasn't able to get it off after two visits, so it was suggested to continue giving the ointment he prescribed and hope it would come off on its own. One person I talked to said they'd had a similar issue, and after continuing with the ointment they got for a while, it finally just popped off. She shed again after the first bad shed and it all came off fine (except the retained shed on the eye). BUT she just shed again, and now it's on the other eye too - and I have no idea why, since her humidity has been fine and she gets a calcium + vitamin supplement, so I don't think a vitamin A deficiency should be an issue. She has an appointment at a well-respected animal hospital/university on Thursday, but I was wondering if there might be any people here who would have any ideas about why this is happening or had any experience with it or had any suggestions how to prevent it. Sorry for the novel by the way.

~Maggot

 

[thorrshamri]

NEVER try to remove old shed on eyes yourself, you would probably cause cornea ulcerations.
Taking your animal to the vet again and again is not a bad idea, though it certainly causes stress. The vet has to explore the causes, particularly nutritional issues such as the lack or overdose of certain vitamins. Vitamin A can be found as an unguent and works great on "sick" eyes- just ask for it from any chemists shop.
I would give this gecko lukewarm baths (85°F or so) for 30 minutes/day. Tip: add a camomile tea bag, this helps remove old shed skin. Then the problem might solve by itself

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Okay, so the vet removed most of the stuck spectacles but wanted to err on the side of caution and leave a little instead of removing too much. I was instructed to keep applying the ointment 3-4 times a day to help loosen what is left.

Now the issue: I think we figured out why this happened. She's in a tall 33 gallon with a light at the top (as they do bask sometimes and I can't use a UTH on this type of enclosure). The humidity down near the ground is fine, but up by the light, it's too dry, and she's recently taken to climbing up the front or sides and hanging out near the top. (This hasn't been an issue before because winter just hit a few weeks ago, being very cold and very dry.) I covered all parts of the top that didn't have the light with very wet paper towels for now, and that's raised humidity a good bit, but it's still just a bit too dry. I do have a stronger light I could use in hopes that the gecko would stay down lower in the enclosure, but that might dry things out even more. So...suggestions? I'm kind of at a loss. =/

~Maggot

 

[thorrshamri]

I am a bit surprised, since these geckos live in dry to very dry places in the wild. Which vitamin supplement are you using? I suspect it might be a dietary issue. Do you use UVB lights? If so, what % of UVB?

 

[Embrace Calamity]

I am a bit surprised, since these geckos live in dry to very dry places in the wild. Which vitamin supplement are you using? I suspect it might be a dietary issue. Do you use UVB lights? If so, what % of UVB?

From what I've read, they do best at 50-60% humidity, and up at the top it was about 32%, which would probably be enough to cause the issues. I use Repashy Leopard Gecko Calcium Plus for her and my leo, which has vitamin A acetate (I had considered a vitamin A deficiency being an issue). No UVB either considering they're nocturnal. The vet asked about both and decided the supplementation and a lack of UVB was okay. I think I'm going to add the higher wattage bulb until the weather stops being cruel and unusual. I do have a desert UVB strip (I think 10%?) that I could put on if you felt it necessary?

~Maggot

 

[thorrshamri]

10% UVB will likely hurt the eyes of your gecko, I would not give it a try.
Now your supplement contains 200K IU/kg provitamin A. This is simply huge, and definitely too much. Overdosing vitamin A may result in the same issues, or even worse, than a deficiency in the same vitamin. That is a common problem with marketed supplements, by containing a lot, not to say way too much vitamin quantities, it gives the consumer the false impression he/she is purchasing a great product. FYI, 10k IU/kg is enough for geckos. You can use Nekton Rep if you can find it where you live.

 

[thorrshamri]

From what I've read, they do best at 50-60% humidity, and up at the top it was about 32%

Relative air humidity in their homelands, for example Southern Spain, Sicily, North Africa is certainly below 50% except in the cooler months. I really don't think the problem comes from a lack of humidity. As an example, I keep various Pachydactylus and Chondrodactylus species, all coming from similar dry climates- the climate of South Africa is not that far from the one around Mediterranean shores- and I have never have any shedding issue with them so far, I just use small water dishes in each enclosure and give an occasional light spraying, and that's it

 

[Embrace Calamity]

10% UVB will likely hurt the eyes of your gecko, I would not give it a try.
Now your supplement contains 200K IU/kg provitamin A. This is simply huge, and definitely too much. Overdosing vitamin A may result in the same issues, or even worse, than a deficiency in the same vitamin. That is a common problem with marketed supplements, by containing a lot, not to say way too much vitamin quantities, it gives the consumer the false impression he/she is purchasing a great product. FYI, 10k IU/kg is enough for geckos. You can use Nekton Rep if you can find it where you live.

What are the symptoms of hypervitaminosis A? From what I can find (which isn't much), it doesn't really seem to match, but I will contact the vet and see what they have to say on the matter and if a test can be conducted.

Relative air humidity in their homelands, for example Southern Spain, Sicily, North Africa is certainly below 50% except in the cooler months. I really don't think the problem comes from a lack of humidity. As an example, I keep various Pachydactylus and Chondrodactylus species, all coming from similar dry climates- the climate of South Africa is not that far from the one around Mediterranean shores- and I have never have any shedding issue with them so far, I just use small water dishes in each enclosure and give an occasional light spraying, and that's it

Do you know the relative humidities of the exact places where they spend most of their time, not just the countries?

~Maggot

 

[thorrshamri]

Hypervitaminosis A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Have a look here- even if it applies for humans, "Excessive skin dryness/peeling" is one of the effects. This, on reptiles, can lead to bad shed issues

Living in Europe and having visited quite a lot of places where crocodile geckos live, I can tell you they will use basking sites such as house walls, old stone piles, tiles in roofs (they are well-known in some places where they gather in numbers on roofs to make rambling noises!) directly exposed to the sun, so it implies a rather low air humidity. Such surfaces are very good heat conductors and if you simulate the same conditions in captivity, a 30-45% humidity range is probably what is close to the reality of their micro-habitats. Hope that answers your question.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Hypervitaminosis A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Have a look here- even if it applies for humans, "Excessive skin dryness/peeling" is one of the effects. This, on reptiles, can lead to bad shed issues

Living in Europe and having visited quite a lot of places where crocodile geckos live, I can tell you they will use basking sites such as house walls, old stone piles, tiles in roofs (they are well-known in some places where they gather in numbers on roofs to make rambling noises!) directly exposed to the sun, so it implies a rather low air humidity. Such surfaces are very good heat conductors and if you simulate the same conditions in captivity, a 30-45% humidity range is probably what is close to the reality of their micro-habitats. Hope that answers your question.

I guess? Where would the 50-60% have come from then? (One place that breeds them suggested 65%.)

~Maggot

 

[thorrshamri]

You know, some care sheets on the Internet are written by people who do not even keep the species in question, so every source has to be carefully selected

 

[Embrace Calamity]

You know, some care sheets on the Internet are written by people who do not even keep the species in question, so every source has to be carefully selected

I'm aware, which is why I've read all of them that I could find. Unfortunately, though, with them not being very popular geckos, I wasn't able to find much on them.

~Maggot

 

[thorrshamri]

Just to make sure every possibility has been explored, no internal parasites were found in your gecko, right? Shedding issues have so many causes, a weakened animal can have such problems because of a too heavy load of gut parasites.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Just to make sure every possibility has been explored, no internal parasites were found in your gecko, right? Shedding issues have so many causes, a weakened animal can have such problems because of a too heavy load of gut parasites.

A fecal wasn't done. I guess they didn't consider it because I've had her for about half a year and she's always shed perfectly. Her fecals have always appeared normal, but I will mention it to them when I talk to them about the hypervitaminosis.

~Maggot

 

[Frinta]

10% UVB will likely hurt the eyes of your gecko, I would not give it a try.
Now your supplement contains 200K IU/kg provitamin A. This is simply huge, and definitely too much. Overdosing vitamin A may result in the same issues, or even worse, than a deficiency in the same vitamin. That is a common problem with marketed supplements, by containing a lot, not to say way too much vitamin quantities, it gives the consumer the false impression he/she is purchasing a great product. FYI, 10k IU/kg is enough for geckos. You can use Nekton Rep if you can find it where you live.

Completely agree on the A-vitamin part, i just discussed about this product yesterday for a long period, its insane how much A-vitamin it has, and how much harm it has possibly done.

Zoomeds multivitamin without d3 is also a good product to use every 2-4 weeks.

If i were you id remove that supplement from use right away.


Also, a picture of her would help a lot with identification of the problem, espicially picture showing her tail and spine from side angle. If you cant provide a picture describe any abnormalies on her tail/spine (back)

 

[Embrace Calamity]

No new tail/spine abnormalities. She's got a slight kink at the end of her tail from before I had her when she was in very poor care (which hasn't gotten any worse). I did contact the vet and ask them about the possibility, but he said she really didn't look like what he would expect from a vitamin A overdose.

EDIT: There do appear to be signs of improvement though. Her one eye is almost clear, and the other one has pieces coming off a little bit at a time. She's moving around and readily taking baby food - and still as bitey as ever. XD

~Maggot

 

[Frinta]

Okey, hard to say without seeing a picture of the animal. Symptoms you described matched hypervitaminosis A. And the vitamin supplement you use would explain the cause. Those are the facts, without pictures or more information hard to help further!

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Sorry, she's a bit tough to get pics of by myself since she's so squirmy. =/ Don't think I'm dismissing the input though. I'm not going to be using that supplement for her anymore (if it makes you feel any better, it wasn't being used for every feeding). And she's going back to the vet if she doesn't improve, so if she still hasn't, then he can test for hypervitaminosis.

~Maggot

 

[Frinta]

Sounds like a good plan, best of luck for the little fella! (since you live in the US i strongly recommend Sticky tongue farms vitamins/minerals, and reading some material on the subject in general for future reference)

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Bookmarked. Thanks.

~Maggot