Why NOT to use colored lights in your geckos cage at night...

[athdaraxen]

It sounds like you're speaking primarily of geckos like leopards or fat tails... geckos that need heat at night as well as the daytime.

I personally use blue LED rope light, 20 feet of it, draped around the ceiling in my herp room. But of course I keep only tropical arboreal animals. I want my geckos to have some light at night, and in my setup they wouldn't have any at all if I didn't use some kind of light. I'm sure their eyes are better than mine, but they still need SOME light.

While I certainly understand not using a red or blue light, or light of any kind shining down into each gecko's tank, they certainly do need something. I just mention it for clarification, that's all.

I am. :3

My problem is I don't have a room just for my darling. I have a one bedroom apartment with one window. >_>

The blue LED rope is a pretty cool idea. Plus its not on their cage to be right in their faces.

And that's exactly why I was looking for gray lights, something not blue or red. I mean I'd love to see the effects of different lights on geckos. I mean everybody is always going on about red and blue, so wouldn't it make sense to try other colors? In case you did need to use a light for something, I plan to keep a backup heat light in case my soon to be bought CHE goes out which makes me want to explore different colors and lighting techniques, like with you blue LED rope.

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[pakinjak]

In my case, I just needed some kind of ambient light because my room is in my basement and has no windows. It probably isn't exactly the same for them, but to my eyes it looks exactly like moonlight in my room at night. There are lots of shadows in the enclosures, and it's the best I can do to mimic the jungles where my animals come from. I've seen great success in Uroplatus using this approach. I wouldn't dare say it's all due to the lighting, but it certainly doesn't hurt one bit.

 

[thorrshamri]

In any case I would not recommend ceramic heaters -they are usually high wattage heaters which are not appropriate for geckos. I have also noticed, as I work with quite a lot of arboreal geckos from different parts of the world and different species, that geckos associate the immediate proximity of a light source, whatever it is, with a potential danger. Who here has never seen their animals laying on bulbs or neon lights while they are off at night and then immediately as lights are on again, the geckos move to another place?

Just to say ceramic heaters don't emit light and thus are likely to cause burns, even with wire mesh guards (people tend to forget metal is an excellent heat conductor...so is ceramic).

Then, using common sense, it's true that some gecko species in the wild gather near artificial lighting at night to find food...just because insects are attracted by such lights. Can you imagine a tokay in the middle of a dark jungle or a frog-eyed gecko in the desert? They don't have any source of artificial light around them yet the dim moonlight/starlight sources, or even almost complete darkness, is fine with them to find prey.

I keep Ptenopus which only thrive in almost complete darkness 24 hours a day, which corresponds to the time they spend in their burrows in the wild...

I would also worry about the Biological night/day cycles. Any metabolism of any superior animal, reptiles and humans included, are greatly disturbed by constant sources of light, even at night, even if this light is not very intense.

As for geckos needing some heat at night, I would just recommend either to keep your reptile room warm enough or to use UTH or heat cables, but no lights. As simple as that.

 

[pakinjak]

Here in the US it's uncommon to see people using lights INSIDE the enclosure. That's a difference between here and Europe. The ceramic emitters can be used safely, but again, I'd assume the folks mentioning them are speaking terrestrial geckos like leopards and fattails. If the ceramic emitters produce proper temps where the gecko resides and the gecko is on the ground and can't reach it, I don't see why it wouldn't be proper to use them.

As I've mentioned before, it's different for different setups, but there's no way I can use no ambient light in my room. It would be complete, utter, total darkness. Zero light reaches my room in the daytime or in the night time, so if there is light I have to provide it.

Of course there are ways of providing that light that would be disruptive, but it's not as simple as recommending against any light at all. Different rooms, enclosures, collections, etc., mandate that each keeper makes a judgment about what products to use and how to use them.

I can personally attest that it is entirely possible to use supplemental lighting and be successful with your animals. My blue LED is on all night, every night. I've seen several pairs of Uroplatus mating, seen plenty of activity, and hatched 43 Uroplatus since December 2011, still have eggs incubating. In addition to that, I've seen three of four of my U. Fimbriatus lay eggs (though some are duds of course). I'm not saying that to toot my own horn, but to illustrate that it's not so simple that anyone can say "Don't use lights in your room, it's bad for the geckos.". If it is, I'd like to know how to judge the negative affects taking into consideration my own experience with a genus that few can say they've had the success that I just shared.

As with most discussions, my recommendation is that each keeper learns the husbandry for their animals, takes into account the links Ethan shared earlier, and adjusts accordingly but using their own common sense to achieve the best possible environment for their own animals.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Here in the US it's uncommon to see people using lights INSIDE the enclosure. That's a difference between here and Europe. The ceramic emitters can be used safely, but again, I'd assume the folks mentioning them are speaking terrestrial geckos like leopards and fattails. If the ceramic emitters produce proper temps where the gecko resides and the gecko is on the ground and can't reach it, I don't see why it wouldn't be proper to use them.

I wasn't aware that was something that was normally done. I would never suggest using CHEs inside an enclosure. They do get very hot to the touch. However, though they do produce a lot of heat on the surface, it's not that bad even up close. I've taken the dome light with mine in it and held it against the inside of my thigh, and it was actually a very pleasant warmth.

I can personally attest that it is entirely possible to use supplemental lighting and be successful with your animals. My blue LED is on all night, every night. I've seen several pairs of Uroplatus mating, seen plenty of activity, and hatched 43 Uroplatus since December 2011, still have eggs incubating. In addition to that, I've seen three of four of my U. Fimbriatus lay eggs (though some are duds of course). I'm not saying that to toot my own horn, but to illustrate that it's not so simple that anyone can say "Don't use lights in your room, it's bad for the geckos.". If it is, I'd like to know how to judge the negative affects taking into consideration my own experience with a genus that few can say they've had the success that I just shared.

I don't think anyone would say that a lighted enclosure would be totally unsuitable for a gecko and they're going to suffer dramatically - especially with colors that are cooler like blues, greens, and purples as opposed to colors like red. (I have to wonder if maybe a red light would be associated with fire in their natural habitat?) I know people who have switched from reds to blues or purples (for leos), and they've noticed a dramatic increase in nighttime activity. I think the point is simply that it's not ideal and a CHE or UTH would be a better choice - however, as you said, every person has to adjust to their particular needs.

Also, congratulations on your success with them.

~Maggot

 

[pakinjak]

It's pretty common to see the actual bulb and fixture inside the enclosure in european collections. Just a different way of doing things, and for UVB bulbs... much better I'd say.

I believe that Herve' did say that any light at all is detrimental to the geckos in his last post, but perhaps he'll clarify the next time he responds.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

It's pretty common to see the actual bulb and fixture inside the enclosure in european collections. Just a different way of doing things, and for UVB bulbs... much better I'd say.

I believe that Herve' did say that any light at all is detrimental to the geckos in his last post, but perhaps he'll clarify the next time he responds.

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I wouldn't dare do that with most reptiles (unless it was a light that didn't put off any/much heat like a UVB). That's an interesting way of doing things though.

In all fairness, "detrimental" doesn't necessarily mean it has to be severe. Unfortunately, with reptiles, it's hard to tell if things are only mildly detrimental. But I can't speak to what Herve' - whoever that is - meant specifically.

~Maggot

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

My issue is with people using these colored lights as heat sources that are on all night long under the assumption (that has long been held and pushed by the manufacturers of these products) that these geckos can't see them because they are colored. The fact is, they can see them. And I would think that having your whole world turned blue or red or green for 12 hour per day would not be particularly natural for any animal. I certainly wouldn't enjoy it. And it certainly may contribute to vision problems or issue with circadian rhythms, general stress, etc. Obviously, the intensity of said lighting would play a large factor in how much or little affect it would have on the gecko. I would think if anything, a white light on a dimmer very low would be best. But, in 25+ years of working with herps I've never used any sort of night time lighting and never had an issue of nocturnal animals not being able to see their prey, etc. Dark is what they do best and what they are naturally adapted for. Perhaps in something like a basement that has absolutely no windows at all it might be of some benefit. Obviously, there are no 100% set factors in life. Some geckos live wild in urban settings and are subjected to light sources all the time. While others live in the deepest, darkest places that you can imagine and often don't get exposed to virtually any light at all during the night. But, wild geckos have the option to change location to suit their comfort levels where as a leopard gecko in a ten or twenty gallon tank with a blue bulb beaming down upon it doesn't have a whole lot of choice in the matter.

 

[thorrshamri]

Here in the US it's uncommon to see people using lights INSIDE the enclosure. That's a difference between here and Europe. The ceramic emitters can be used safely, but again, I'd assume the folks mentioning them are speaking terrestrial geckos like leopards and fattails.

Thanks, I didn't know that! I suppose you use UVB sources inside the enclosures in the US though?

 

[pakinjak]

No, I've never seen it done that way in the US, only across the pond.

 

[thorrshamri]

Seriously, that's very strange as glass or mesh don't let most of the UVBs get through them :shock:

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Seriously, that's very strange as glass or mesh don't let most of the UVBs get through them :shock:

I don't think so. Windows are specially made to filter out UVB, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't apply to all glass.

~Maggot

 

[SORROW89]

Two more links with info about gecko night vision


The pupils and optical systems of gecko eyes

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...zEQiNB&sig=AHIEtbRjIakHAB9eUjfw_dPhjLUaVScy8w

I use a day bulb during the day but a CHE at night. I asked a buddy of mine who is a biologist and knows a lot about herps and he told me that they need white light to see colour. So like if they in the dark they can't see colour it's only with white daylight. That's what he said and if you read under table 1 I think that's what they are saying.

 

[pakinjak]

Seriously, that's very strange as glass or mesh don't let most of the UVBs get through them :shock:

If I/you/they are using UVB then the enclosure should not be one with a glass top. Yes, screen filters out some of the UVB rays but certainly not all or even most of it.

I've made some of my own enclosures and used 1/4" hardware cloth for the top. That way I'm filtering out very little, if any of the UVB.

*UVB in general is another discussion anyway, since the benefit of artificial sources is somewhat debatable.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

Seriously, that's very strange as glass or mesh don't let most of the UVBs get through them :shock:

Only certain glass filters UVB, not all glass. It's the coating that is used, not the glass itself that filters it. Screen can filter it somewhat, but as Kevin mentions, the tightness of the weave of the screen would determine how much. Something like "hardware cloth" (which in these parts is know as "rat wire"!) wouldn't filter much of anything out as the spacing in the weave is large.

 

[thorrshamri]

I have a professional UVmeter at home, I will make some tests and let you know the results.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

I have a professional UVmeter at home, I will make some tests and let you know the results.

I know it didn't filter it for me (at least not all of it). I was using a strip UVB on my leo's enclosure (through the screen), and then when I removed it, she brumated again.

~Maggot

 

[GlaedrLeoGecko]

So, what I am getting from this discussion is that nobody can agree on whether or not colored lights are bad to use. Great, so very helpful, since I have to have a heat source other than a UTH to use for my Leo since the cage is in a cool room, but I honestly have no idea whether or not the 25 Watt red light that I have been using will kill her, stress her out, ruin her eyes, or be perfectly fine.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

So, what I am getting from this discussion is that nobody can agree on whether or not colored lights are bad to use. Great, so very helpful, since I have to have a heat source other than a UTH to use for my Leo since the cage is in a cool room, but I honestly have no idea whether or not the 25 Watt red light that I have been using will kill her, stress her out, ruin her eyes, or be perfectly fine.

Um, not really. No one said a red light would kill them. However, from what I can see, no one said that red lights were fine either. Some argued for the use of blue lights being acceptable, but as far as I'm aware, no one's argued for the use of reds.

~Maggot

 

[GlaedrLeoGecko]

I didn't mean that anybody had stated that a gecko would die under red light, I just meant that a lot of people act like a light of any sort will eventually kill a gecko and nobody could agree on anything. I mean, most of the people that have weighed in on this conversation are professional breeders, so obviously they must not be completely wrong, just differing opinions. Also, that original article stated that gecko's lack the necessary cones to see red at all, and I am pretty sure that I didn't misread that.
I am a little bit frustrated cause I want the very best for my Leo, but that is really hard when everybody is disagreeing about everything, than I have no way of knowing whose advice to follow.