Gecko's not eating!!

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WhereToBegin

New member
Hey guys. I'm back again!

I have some good news, and some bad...

I'll start with the good, I finally figured out how to sex my gecko, and he's definitely a boy!! Which is good to know! Because for a while I was considering pairing him with another boy as tank mates!!:shock: ugh glad that never happened!!

On another note, I've noticed him licking his vent a lot. And I figure that's cleaning? That's all good and such, but since he started doing this he has lost a lot of weight and is refusing most of the food I offer him!! D:

At first I thought it was parasites, since I started him on a new diet(superworms and mealworms since they're both easy for him to catch and he's big enough to eat the superworms with no problem now!! :D) but he doesn't have any runny poop. He poops just fine when I do manage to get him to eat. He's just reluctant to take the food at all??

I'm currently raising money to get him a visit to the vet. We'll be going either way, since he should get an exam anyways to make sure he's healthy otherwise, but I was wondering if anyone has any idea what's up with him? Because if I can fix it sooner, then that's great, but the vet will always be there, so there's no rush or anything I guess. :)>
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Hello Stranger ;-) ~

Please complete the following questionnaire on Banunu so that we will have more knowledge for troubleshooting.

#50---Cricket4u's Gecko Health Questionnaire

GU members: When copying & pasting this questionnaire into your thread, please change only the answers of your reply font to boldface to make your replies easy to read. Don't know whether that is possible. Don't really want the entire reply bold.

General Information
Species of lizard:
Gecko's name:
Morph:
Gender:
Age:
Weight:
Total length:
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it:
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner):
Captive bred or wild caught:

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth):
Cage (type, size):
Substrate provided:
Types of hiding places provided:
Is there a humidity hide? location?
Please describe any other furnishings:
List recent changes in the environment, if any:

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s):
Fluorescent (tube bulbs):

Natural lighting
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window:

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage?
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other):
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide:
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground:
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground:
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other):
Are you using a thermostat(s)?
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time?
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much?

Humidity
Is the humidity measured?
Humidity range:

Diet
Insects and worms, list type:
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms:
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with?
How often do you feed your gecko?
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often?
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both?
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without?
Multivitamins (include brand name)?
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet:

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs:
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased?
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased?
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain):
Discharge from the eyes or nose:
Increased breathing rate or effort:
Change in the droppings:
Urates
---white or yellowish:
---size of urates as compared to size of feces:
Abnormal skin color or shedding:
Parasites on the skin or in the feces:
Weakness:

Previous problems and/or illnesses:

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household
List other animals that are kept in the same cage:
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months):
Are any of your other pets ill?

Please include pictures of your gecko, the habitat, and particular issues (eye abcesses ?). If the problem involves gait, a video will be helpful. Many thanks.
 
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WhereToBegin

New member
General Information
Species of lizard: Leopard Gecko
Gecko's name: Banunu
Morph: High Yellow
Gender: Male
Age: ~1 year
Weight: 30 grams
Total length: 7 1/2 inches
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: ~3 inches
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): Petco
Captive bred or wild caught: Captive Bred

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth): 2' 5.5" x 1' x 1' 6"
Cage (type, size): Normal 30 gallon
Substrate provided: Paper Towels
Types of hiding places provided: a cool hide, it's like a branch that was hallowed out to make a little tunnel, warm hide, it's ceramic and picks up the heat from the ground so it's warm on top, and a moist box a tub that I cut a hole in with moist moss.
Is there a humidity hide? location? Yes in the center of the tank.
Please describe any other furnishings: Food dish, 100% pure calcium dish, water dish.
List recent changes in the environment, if any: New hide and new water dish.

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): None
wattage(s): N/A
Fluorescent (tube bulbs): None

Natural lighting
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: Yes. The tank is under the window. The window's curtain is always shut though, so it just lets a little light seep through.

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? Yes
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): Caliber III Digital thermometer and hygrometer.
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 89.8°F
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 6 inches up from the ground: 76.4°F
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 6 inches up from the ground: 73°F
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): Under the tank heater.
Are you using a thermostat(s)? Yes
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? That's a tough one. He spends most of his time next to the moist hide... Not in it really
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? I honestly don't know, I doubt by much? The house is kept at 60 degree's at night so the cool end might get that low, but the warm end stays nice and toasty!

Humidity
Is the humidity measured? Yes
Humidity range: 25%(warm side)-48%(cool side)

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: Mealworms(I raised them myself), and Superworms produced by Timberline.
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms: Mealworms get lots of veggies and vitamin powder. I haven't worked things out with the superworms yet since they are still very new to his diet and he won't even eat them.
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? Mealworms are. I give them lettuce, carrots, kale, spinach, cabbage and vitamin powder.
How often do you feed your gecko? As often as he'll take food. There is usually a constant supply of worms in his food dish since he's underweight.
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often?
1. Repashy Superfoods Calcium D3
1.a. Usually twice a week, Tuesday and Thursday, right now things are a little iffy though.
2. Zoo Med Repti Calcium with out D3
2.a. Available at all times in a little cap in the tank.
3. Rep-Cal Herptivite Multivitamins
3.a. I sprinkle a little in his dish so the worms will eat/crawl around in it. Pretty much available at all times

What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? Both. Repashy Superfoods Calcium with D3, Zoomeds Repti Calcium without D3
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without?Without.
Multivitamins (include brand name)?Rep-Cal Heptivite with beta carotene Multivitamins
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: Added Superworms to be his staple rather than mealworms. Mealworms are still given though.

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: I don't know for sure... He won't eat and he's started licking his vent more. I'm starting to wonder if him licking his vent just has to do with him reaching sexual maturity? He's been doing it for about a week now.
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased?
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? Decreased!!
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): I think gain actually??? Last time I weighed him he was 25 grams, and now he's 30 grams, but he looks like he's lost weight...
Discharge from the eyes or nose: None of that.
Increased breathing rate or effort: No.
Change in the droppings: Not really.
Urates
---white or yellowish: White I think? It looks a little bit yellow, but that could be the lighting in my room. It's not like bright yellow.
---size of urates as compared to size of feces:The poop is bigger, and urate is about half the size.
Abnormal skin color or shedding: Nope.
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: Not that I can see!
Weakness: Not that I've noticed. He just climbed his tallest hide with no problems..

Previous problems and/or illnesses: There's a lot... Okay, so he didn't eat when I first got him. He couldn't catch the crickets we tried to feed him. He wasn't slow, he just missed A LOT and it would get to the point of him giving up. I had to hand feed him most of his life by holding the food to his head until he took it.

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: None, he's alone.
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): None.
Are any of your other pets ill? Nope.


Okay that's it! Don't think I missed anything..

Oh and, we met before btw, Elizabeth! At the last reptile expo in Wilsonville! And you helped me with fixing Banunu's tank before. :)
 

Embrace Calamity

New member
May I ask why you're using Repashy and Herptivite? Repashy is an all-in-one intended to be used about every feeding without anything else. Has this gecko ever seen a vet?

~Maggot
 

WhereToBegin

New member
May I ask why you're using Repashy and Herptivite? Repashy is an all-in-one intended to be used about every feeding without anything else. Has this gecko ever seen a vet?

~Maggot

I was actually unaware of that!! It was the only calcium my petco had for leopard geckos. :\
If it's bad for him I could buy some repti calcium with D3, since I know where to buy that now!

And no he hasn't, or at least not while under my care. Maybe a petco vet... It didn't seem unnecessary before, but I'm going to be taking him soon for his first exam.
 

Embrace Calamity

New member
I would personally just stick with the Repashy and follow the instructions on the bottle. That's all you need. But you said your gecko's never been able to eat on its own, so that seems like something that should be checked out by a vet. Do you have any pics of him?

~Maggot
 

WhereToBegin

New member
And cut out the multivitamins? Is it bad to give him both?
And I don't know about giving it to him every day since it has D3 in it and not just plain D?

Yes I do! I actually just did a recent shoot for him... I agree. He can eat on his own now!.. Well.. Eeeh... Sort of. He still misses sometimes, but I'm not too concerned about that part because he was getting plenty of food down and gaining weight just a couple weeks ago...?hmm...
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bby_banunu_by_chaostits-d5y0uxp.png


The first three where to show him from the side, top and his neck thing, which I was told by another member was possibly a defect that was caused by the mother not having enough vitamin a? And the last one's just because he looks pretty there haha. :)

The top two are quite old actually. He's grown a whole inch since then. The bottom two I took yesterday.
 

cricket4u

New member
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 89.8°F
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 6 inches up from the ground: 76.4°F
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 6 inches up from the ground: 73°F


Hi,

Not enough heat. Buy a Ceramic heat emitter and place it on a thermostat. Superworms and mealworms do not make an ideal stable food item due to the fat content and they are extremely poor in calcium. It would be best to feed crickets as a stable and offer as many other insects possible for variety.
 

WhereToBegin

New member
In the care sheet is says 88-90 on the hot side and around 70 for the cool side? which matches up to mine exactly...? It's actually a little warm on the cool side...

As for the diet, I've looked at plenty of pages that have said superworms are good because they are low in fat and have softer shells?? And he has a calcium dish that he knows to use(I've seen him use it before)..
He can't eat crickets... I feel like I mentioned this earlier, but he can't catch them and doesn't even really respond to their presence anymore(I tried giving him some a few weeks ago when I noticed his aim was almost spot on for a bit). He's not fast enough/not able to s them correctly(I guess??). I'm not allowed to have roaches in my house, and there aren't any horn worms in the area really.. So if I can't feed him the superworms I'm at a bit of a loss? Any other recommendations I guess?....
 

Embrace Calamity

New member
You missed the air temps. Try reading the caresheet again.:)
I'm curious why it matters so much what the temps 6" above the ground are? As long as the temps on the ground are okay (the OP is measuring air temps directly above the substrate rather than the surface temps with an infrared, right?), why's it matter if the leo isn't even going to be 6" up in the air? I'd be more interested in temps on the ground and maybe 2-3" up. If they're still pretty chilly there, then yeah, add a CHE.
And cut out the multivitamins? Is it bad to give him both?
And I don't know about giving it to him every day since it has D3 in it and not just plain D?
Repashy is a complete all-in-one. It contains calcium and all the vitamins/supplements that the gecko needs. There's no need for the Herptivite. Frankly, I'd toss the stuff, since it's useless as a multivitamin without any vitamin A.

~Maggot
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
I'm curious why it matters so much what the temps 6" above the ground are? As long as the temps on the ground are okay (the OP is measuring air temps directly above the substrate rather than the surface temps with an infrared, right?), why's it matter if the leo isn't even going to be 6" up in the air? I'd be more interested in temps on the ground and maybe 2-3" up. If they're still pretty chilly there, then yeah, add a CHE.Repashy is a complete all-in-one. It contains calcium and all the vitamins/supplements that the gecko needs. There's no need for the Herptivite. Frankly, I'd toss the stuff, since it's useless as a multivitamin without any vitamin A.

~Maggot

~ "6 inches above ground" is just to get a ballpark reading for air temperatures :). Some cages allow more climbing opportunities than do others and some leos use that space more than others!

When a leo climbs even on top of a hide or some other cage furniture, he could be 3-6 inches above ground.

If heating by an UTH only, the temperatures fall off quickly the further up one goes from the under tank heater. If using an UTH only, there is a tendency for a leo to become "glued to the heat mat" for the belly heat he needs for digestion. By providing comfortably warm air a leo is much more likely to be out and about.
 
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Embrace Calamity

New member
~ "6 inches above ground" is just to get a ballpark reading for air temperatures :). Some cages allow more climbing opportunities than do others and some leos use that space more than others!

When a leo climbs even on top of a hide or some other cage furniture, he could be 3-6 inches above ground.

If heating by an UTH only, the temperatures fall off quickly the further up one goes from the under tank heater. If using an UTH only, there is a tendency for a leo to become "glued to the heat mat" for the belly heat he needs for digestion. By providing comfortably warm air a leo is much more likely to be out and about.
But then it would be basically the same thing as the cold side - if it's too cold, they won't go there. I recognise that a UTH can have the issue of having only a warm surface, which is why I said just a few inches would be more important, and if it's too cold 2-3" above the substrate, then an overhead heat source would be necessary. But the 6" up seems unnecessary if the only reason it even matters is if the gecko has something that tall to climb on (and I don't think most cage furnishings are that tall) and if the gecko chooses to do so, which it wouldn't anyway if it were simply too cold. Point being, just because it's not 88-93 6" above the ground, that doesn't mean it can't still be an appropriate temperature on the ground where the leo is. The concern with adding overhead heat if the ground temps are appropriate, especially if the tank is short, would be that the ground temps would be raised as well.

~Maggot
 

cricket4u

New member
But then it would be basically the same thing as the cold side - if it's too cold, they won't go there. I recognise that a UTH can have the issue of having only a warm surface, which is why I said just a few inches would be more important, and if it's too cold 2-3" above the substrate, then an overhead heat source would be necessary. But the 6" up seems unnecessary if the only reason it even matters is if the gecko has something that tall to climb on (and I don't think most cage furnishings are that tall) and if the gecko chooses to do so, which it wouldn't anyway if it were simply too cold. Point being, just because it's not 88-93 6" above the ground, that doesn't mean it can't still be an appropriate temperature on the ground where the leo is. The concern with adding overhead heat if the ground temps are appropriate, especially if the tank is short, would be that the ground temps would be raised as well.

~Maggot

In general a warm zone should be provided, not a warm spot. A warm ground reading is not going to necessarily warm up the whole gecko and will not allow the gecko to be active. Most reptiles who have only been provided a warm floor go off food and/or become overweight. Your gecko will sadly be forced to remain in the warm hide, until the air temps increase. 6 inches off the ground is not very high and a well kept gecko will move around and utilize the space. I know my gecko climb a few inches off the ground chasing crickets.

The air temp should not be 88-93, instead 80-85. It should be monitored and controlled by a thermostat. There is a chance that this gecko stopped eating due to this reason. If you read through multiple thread, you will realize how many geckos go off when air temps are allowed to fall under 80f. The temps vary in each enclosure regardless of height. While the ground can be 90f, 2 inches off the ground can easily drop to 75f.
 

WhereToBegin

New member
I see what you're saying about the air temps. It can get kind of chilly in my house, so I'll invest in a light for him.

But I've never had a light for him, and this started a few weeks ago, not in the beginning of winter or even when it was really cold, and it's getting warmer now? So I'm not sure if that would be why he's not eating... And he's really active! Especially at night, but even during the day he'll move around in between sleeping to adjust his temperature or just to find a comfier spot.
 

cricket4u

New member
I see what you're saying about the air temps. It can get kind of chilly in my house, so I'll invest in a light for him.

But I've never had a light for him, and this started a few weeks ago, not in the beginning of winter or even when it was really cold, and it's getting warmer now? So I'm not sure if that would be why he's not eating... And he's really active! Especially at night, but even during the day he'll move around in between sleeping to adjust his temperature or just to find a comfier spot.

Some will eat even when the temps are not optimal, however they will not be able to keep up with the calories, makes sense? Their digestive system is heat dependant.
 

Embrace Calamity

New member
In general a warm zone should be provided, not a warm spot. A warm ground reading is not going to necessarily warm up the whole gecko and will not allow the gecko to be active. Most reptiles who have only been provided a warm floor go off food and/or become overweight.
I think you're misunderstanding (or I'm misstating) what I'm saying. I said that there would be an issue if only the floor is warm and that the air definitely needs to be warm too.
6 inches off the ground is not very high and a well kept gecko will move around and utilize the space. I know my gecko climb a few inches off the ground chasing crickets.
Chasing crickets is different from just hanging out 6" up in the enclosure. I doubt a gecko would refuse to go high to chase crickets if it was too cool (assuming any of the hot side cage furnishings are even 4-5" tall to begin with) any more than a gecko would refuse to go to the cold side to chase them.
While the ground can be 90f, 2 inches off the ground can easily drop to 75f.
That's exactly why I said: "I recognise that a UTH can have the issue of having only a warm surface, which is why I said just a few inches would be more important, and if it's too cold 2-3" above the substrate, then an overhead heat source would be necessary." My point is simply that the 6" might be overkill and isn't necessarily focusing on what's really important when it comes to temperature.

~Maggot
 

cricket4u

New member
I think you're misunderstanding (or I'm misstating) what I'm saying. I said that there would be an issue if only the floor is warm and that the air definitely needs to be warm too. Chasing crickets is different from just hanging out 6" up in the enclosure. I doubt a gecko would refuse to go high to chase crickets if it was too cool (assuming any of the hot side cage furnishings are even 4-5" tall to begin with) any more than a gecko would refuse to go to the cold side to chase them.
That's exactly why I said: "I recognise that a UTH can have the issue of having only a warm surface, which is why I said just a few inches would be more important, and if it's too cold 2-3" above the substrate, then an overhead heat source would be necessary." My point is simply that the 6" might be overkill and isn't necessarily focusing on what's really important when it comes to temperature.

~Maggot

Oh, so what you're saying is that 6" is too high to read air temp. Well, I guess my hope is for everyone to provide furniture that allows climbing or even levels which will allow a leo to utilize more space for enrichment purposes. I utilize height as well by proving levels, but this would be an example.

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...mate-naturalistic-vivarium-complete-leos.html

I'm not trying to point fingers, however you may have noticed Elizabeth changed the question in the questionnaire. I originally just asked for the air temp and did not specify a location, although I don't think 6" is very high.

Elizabeth do you think this would be a problem? Would 4" be more reasonable for most set-ups?
 
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Hilde

Administrator
Staff member
~ "6 inches above ground" is just to get a ballpark reading for air temperatures :). Some cages allow more climbing opportunities than do others and some leos use that space more than others!

When a leo climbs even on top of a hide or some other cage furniture, he could be 3-6 inches above ground.

If heating by an UTH only, the temperatures fall off quickly the further up one goes from the under tank heater.

Most reptiles who have only been provided a warm floor go off food and/or become overweight. Your gecko will sadly be forced to remain in the warm hide, until the air temps increase. 6 inches off the ground is not very high and a well kept gecko will move around and utilize the space. I know my gecko climb a few inches off the ground chasing crickets.[

In the wild, leopard geckos thermoregulate in the burrow during the day. At night they roam around, even though it's pretty much impossible to do it in the ideal (preferred) temperature. They fully "expect" to be cooler. They hunt, mate, and do whatever else they do at night in less than optimum temperatures.

There's no reason to keep a captive leo enveloped in a narrow temperature gradient, optimum range or not. They should have access to cooler areas (not just a cooler area that we call the cool side).
If the temperature 6" above the substrate is 5 or 10 degrees cooler, it won't hurt them one bit. They go about exploring, when they get too cool they just go back to the burrow (in our case it's the warm hide).

These geckos evolved over eons on their own, no coddling from humans, they made it, learned to make the best of whatever the environment threw at them. They can handle a 10 or 15 degree drop at night, as long as they can get back to the warmth of their burrow and thermoregulate during the day. If the temperature 6" above them is cooler, they don't care, they won't get there. If it's cooler where they can climb, great, no big deal, that's what they have evolved to deal with.

There's been a lot of research done about leopards and other nocturnal geckos and their preferred body temperatures, thermoregulating, body temperatures during various activities and time of day, etc. I've linked one (below), it's easy to understand. If you want more technical research then Google is your friend.

Google cache copy, read online or download: Behavioral thermoregulation increases growth rate in a nocturnal lizard


Unique adaptations may have arisen that permit lizards,and particularly geckos, to be nocturnal. Because of a limited opportunity for thermoregulation at night, nocturnality requires activity at lower temperatures than does diurnality (Huey et al.,1989; Autumn et al., 1994).

Despite their nocturnal ecology, leopard geckos seem to be typical among lizards in requiring a diurnal heat source for maximal growth. This result provides a physiological explanation for the observation that some nocturnal lizards thermoregulate in burrows during the day, and may have implications for the biogeography of nocturnal ectotherms.

Because of a limited opportunity for thermoregulation at night, nocturnality requires activity at lower temperatures than does diurnality (Huey et al.,1989; Autumn et al., 1994).

Using radiotelemetry, Autumn et al. (1994) found that a nocturnal gecko had a daily thermal cycle typical of a diurnal lizard:
high Tb during the day and low Tb at night.

If you do read this paper, be sure to check "Table 3. Preferred body temperature"

As explained in the paper:
Tb = body temperature
Tp = preferred body temperature

We protect them from the dangers they'd face in the wild - predators, pathogens, other dangers - but a strictly controlled temperature gradient isn't necessary. They benefit from some variance, no need to keep them at that precise degree or two. They're tough, they can take some cooling during the night. They won't brumate or go off food just because it's a few degrees cooler for a few minutes or hours, as long as they can get back to heat after they're done exploring.
 

cricket4u

New member
I've read all this already, thank you.:) If you are not utilizing the enclosure upright at all than there's no need, you're right. See I do utilize and offer several temps upwards as well to provide more temp option hides. However, some geckos will not move if it's too cold unless they are very hungry. In captivity most are overfed as we know and so they barely care to move if the conditions are not to their favor, a whole different topic.

Despite their nocturnal ecology, leopard geckos seem to be typical among lizards in requiring a diurnal heat source for maximal growth.
 
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