Help with my Tokays.

[its_uhleeeen]

HI! Im new here. :3

I have two Tokay Geckos that i got about, three weeks ago. They came from Underground Reptiles and they seem to be wild caught. I think they're a pair, as well- but im not sure, exactly.

My problem is that they dont seem to be eating! :/ At any given time, they have crickets, meal worms, super worms, and wax worms. I've counted how many i put in each container, and check them in the morning. They've been in there for about two days and still havent touched them. Im starting to get a little worried because we upped their temp's at night, have sprayed their cage down, given them all kinds of plants, everything- and they still havent touched their food! I've read a little bit that they can possibly have parasites? Which im hoping isnt the case. Is there something that i'm doing wrong?

Another question, is if anyone can give me help on how to tame them down. The female is literally a holy terror, if i go anywhere near her, she barks and lunges at me. The male on the other hand will allow you near him, somewhat, and then when you go to pick him up will flop all over the place and run away.

When they're left alone, like we dont check on them or anything, their colors are at their brightest. Bright blue and orange. Once they see us they get wicked dull. Do they think we're going to hurt them? :/

Any input at this point will help greatly, thanks in advance!

 

[Aimless]

I would say, first, do not try to to handle them until they are settled in. this can take time. the dull coloration is a function of stress. I would leave them alone and not reach into their caging unless absolutely necessary.

if you are not sure they are a pair, it might be wise to separate? are you certain of gender?

if they are WC, it's almost 100% certain they are carrying parasites, unfortunately. to confirm you'll want to have a vet do a fecal, to ensure you get the right meds for what they're carrying.

can you post pictures of their caging? of the geckos as well, if possible?

can you also go into much greater detail on their husbandry? dimensions of caging, temperature ranges (measured, not estimated), humidity? do they have plenty of hiding space?

there are many reasons why a reptile won't eat, but for a new reptile, you can bet at least part of the reason is simply stress from the change. they need to have the proper husbandry, and feel safe, before they will have a good appetite.

by the way, welcome to GU!

 

[its_uhleeeen]

I would say, first, do not try to to handle them until they are settled in. this can take time. the dull coloration is a function of stress. I would leave them alone and not reach into their caging unless absolutely necessary.

if you are not sure they are a pair, it might be wise to separate? are you certain of gender?

if they are WC, it's almost 100% certain they are carrying parasites, unfortunately. to confirm you'll want to have a vet do a fecal, to ensure you get the right meds for what they're carrying.

can you post pictures of their caging? of the geckos as well, if possible?

can you also go into much greater detail on their husbandry? dimensions of caging, temperature ranges (measured, not estimated), humidity? do they have plenty of hiding space?

there are many reasons why a reptile won't eat, but for a new reptile, you can bet at least part of the reason is simply stress from the change. they need to have the proper husbandry, and feel safe, before they will have a good appetite.

by the way, welcome to GU!

The only times i ever really try to reach into their tanks are when im changing their water, fixing their leaves, giving them food, or misting them. I've only tried handling them twice, and it hasnt been recently.

I bought them as a pair- the 'male' seems to be a lot bigger than the 'female.' They dont fight or anything like that, they're usually doing their own thing where ever either one chooses to be in the tank. but if seperating them will help either one to eat, i'll do that. In the picture i posted, the duller, smaller one is the one i believe to be the female; the baby in the hide i assume to be the male. He's about an inch bigger than she is, and seems to be much more docile.

Currently, they're in a 20 long tank, i would assume maybe a foot wide? They're on coconut husk. I spray their tank down multiple times a day for humidity- it never dips below 50%, as of right now it's at about 80%. I have a red bulb on their tank right now, and that keeps at a steady 85-90; i read that at night it needs to be at 85. They have a plant to hide under, a piece of cork wood, and a strawberry to hide in.

I attached some pictures of their home, if im doing anything wrong let me know. i dont want to lose these crazy little guys just because i was doing something wrong.

 

[getula72]

Stop handling them. Those geckos are so aggressive because they get eaten by lots of different things in the wild. They see you coming and think you are about to turn them into a meat snack. They are terrified.

Actually, from what I learned from Michael B., those geckos ARE meat snacks for people where they come from!

There is more advice to give but the above is Reptile Keeping 101.

 

[its_uhleeeen]

i said previously that the only time ive ever really tried handling them was when i first got them, it's not an everyday occurance. i havent tried picking them up in a couple weeks.

 

[Marauderhex]

I recommend bumping their setup up to a 55 gallon tank turned to vertical. Tokay love vertical space and will make better use of a tank that size than your current set up. My advice is to find a cheap tank on craigslist or even at a local store (look for aquariums that won't hold water anymore and you can get them dirt cheap). You can do it yourself and save some money or have a handy friend do it for you, if that's not your thing.

 

[its_uhleeeen]

i actually got them to eat last night! Since i have so many pets, it usually stays at least somewhat lit in my room; so i wrapped the tank up with a sheet and put the lamp on the opposite side of their tank. i put some wax worms inside their little cup and put it near where their hide is. There were only three left when i got up at about 3 am, so i added more and they were all gone this morning! YAY!

 

[its_uhleeeen]

When we originally got them, we had the tank standing vertical and they NEVER came down off the top of the screen top. We had it that way up until about, maybe two days ago. Then we put it down horizontal, and theyre actually eating now, whereas when it was standing up they literally never came down off the very top of the screen.

 

[Marauderhex]

I've never actually seen my tokay eat, but in the morning after I feed him, the roaches are gone. He is primarily active when I'm asleep. It may seem like they never come down, but they do.

 

[its_uhleeeen]

I had known that they hadnt came down because literally none of their food was touched, and their water wasnt either. :/

 

[Aimless]

even though you have seen them eating since you moved it horizontal, a 20L is definitely not the best setup for a Tokay, especially as they reach adulthood.

I would advise one thing right away. first, in my opinion I think it's very important to separate them - it seems they are not yet full adults, and it is hard on female reptiles to breed before they are fully mature and of good healthy weight.

second, eventually you will want a larger and vertical setup. I absolutely agree with Justin, that a 55 gallon aquarium converted for vertical usage is about perfect. another consideration regarding their housing is that your setup (except for the coco fiber substrate) is very much how you would cage a leopard gecko - very little foliage, a humid hide, etc. Tokays are native to jungle-type areas in SE Asia. think hot, sticky, tropical, lots of foliage - I would bet your geckos feel a little exposed with that setup. if you keep the humidity in a proper range, you will never need a humid hide for these geckos and I'm not certain they would use one unless they were feeling desperate for moisture?

Mike (billewicz) has posted some lovely examples of vertical hide setups where you can see your gecko, but they also feel safe during the day. you might want to look through his posts for some of the photos he's posted?

thank you for expanding on your information! I hope they continue to do better for you.

 

[billewicz]

So first, I'd like to welcome you to our little community of Tokay enthusiasts. And I'm going to invite you to dig deeper into the older threads since we've covered a lot of this in the past. So here's a few things you'll eventually fine.

OK, so we need to create a home typical for a Tokay and not a Leopard Gecko. What I mean is, they live in a vertical world 24/7. If the only hide is on the ground or horizontal, they will use them but be highly stressed.

A Tokay on the ground or forced to stay horizontal is a sick or stressed gekko.

Please stand the cork tube up on end and lean it against the corner. Place more cork flats and slate leaning up against the sides of the tank. As soon as you can, get into a vertical enclosure arrangement. Tokay look for the highest point along any vertical surface. If you turn them loose in a room, they will run around the walls just below the ceiling. They will come down the walls at night to hunt and feed but rarely actually go to the ground. They lay in ambush head down on a wall just off the ground.

They were on the screen because they were looking to get higher and had no vertical gaps to safely hide in.

I like leaning a piece of slate almost vertical against the sides of the enclosure and then lean a cork bark slab and inch or two off of that creating a nesting gap between them. If you do this on each side, they will have a safe place to hide and you can still see into that space from the side.

They will feel safe there, lay eggs there and raise their young there.

You can hang plastic vine like plants to create cover and places for dew drops to form after you mist.

Turn off the red light at night or move it across the room from the enclosure. Your Tokay are wild caught imports that are not used to light at night other than the moon. Use an under the tank heat source if needed to up the temps but give them a dark night time.

As you have observed, placing your crickets or roach container right next to the hide opening will allow your very scared Tokay an opportunity to eat without risking being out in the 'open' where the monster predator, you, is lurking. Give up on the worms, except for Goliath Horn Worms now and again, you are not getting enough nutrition into your Tokay. Gut loaded and dusted crickets and roaches will work much better.

Get a fecal exam and meds. Typically Flagyl and Panacur will be prescribed to knock down the typical parasite load / 'bloom' that overtakes the reptiles immune system through the stress of capture, export/import/resale and shipping. This stress continues in their new, very unfamiliar enclosure too.

If you opt out of the fecal exam, you might get lucky as Tokay very resilient but they must, must have a truly relaxing, safe environment. Having said that, the chances are about 1 in 10 and these forums are chock full of sad results for untreated imported Tokay.

As for handling Tokay. Ummm, yeah. Wild caught Tokay have a very strong bite or flight response. They need 3 to 4 months to acclimate. I've imported several hundred Tokay and they need their space. The cool thing is that they will get very used to your comings and goings over time. Big wild caught males can really settle down when they are by them selves as can some wild caught females.

I'm going to assume you have either a pair, or two females since two males would have fought to the death a long time ago. Now if you have a pair, this is the mating season so these two are probably up to some other activities. At this point all niceties are off since she is going to protect her male and her territory for nesting with a vengeance.

Well I hope this helps you understand your Tokay and I wish the best of luck.

Michael's Tokay Hoard @ www.billewicz.com

 

[zuper8]

Definitely give them crickets instead of worms, I think Tokays can find it difficult to see prey that isn't moving a lot. Mine doesn't even eat crickets that stop moving, if I spritz them with water they jump and then she's on it lol. If the prey isn't doing anything I think they figure it's either dead or not even there.

 

[Riverside Reptiles]

Everything in that enclosure (including the enclosure itself) needs to go vertical. These animals almost NEVER touch the ground in the wild. The more vertical space you provide, the better off they'll be. I agree with everyone else that you also need a much larger enclosure. More hiding spots (ie PVC tubes, cork bark, slate leaning on the wall, bamboo tubes, etc) will make for a much more stress free environment for them. Also, if they're from Underground, they're almost for certain wild caught and need to be deparasitized. Since tokay rarely see the ground in the wild, worms are not often on the menu. Try stuff like crickets and roaches that move around a lot. Making these animals feel secure is going to be key to getting them to thrive in captivity. Going vertical and adding more hides is essential to their well being both psychologically and physically. Then, step two is getting them to a vet for a fecal and treatment. These things need to be done whether they're eating or not.

Here's a pic of a 55 gallon turned vertical:

 

[billewicz]

So, please tell us how your Tokay are doing, thanks.

Michael