Please Help Lil Flip

J

Jstoker1238

New member
So, I have a hatchling He is 12 days old today. He's a worrying little guy. He has been eating, but he hasn't hunted food on his own, I've been having to rub a smashed mealworm, or cricket onto his nose . . but he has kept the food down and has had normal looking poops. Yesterday he was going through his first shed (at 11 days after hatching) when he was finished that evening I got him to eat 2 little crickets. All was fine. Well today I noticed when he came out of his humid hide. .he was walking really weird. . his left back leg seemed to have been dislocated and he could barely walk on it. .it even laid down backwards several times. It's really hard to explain so I've taken video of it. Could some one please take a look and give me some kind of insight? He is kept in a small 14x8x10 enclosure, all by himself. . there is nothing for him to climb and fall from. Could he have hurt himself shedding somehow? The link to the video is below. Please help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyUhg4Lm8Jc
 
cricket4u

cricket4u

New member
This leo's problem is unrelated to shedding, it's congenital. To be honest, things can take a turn for the worst within the next few days. It would be best to take him to a vet asap. There's not much you can do for him at home.
 
J

Jstoker1238

New member
Thanks for the replies. I just don't get it, he was fine and running around and then all of a sudden this happens. Today he's being very active, he's running around with as much energy as he had when he was first hatched at the moment. He also ate three crickets yesterday. I'm going to look into taking him to a vet. In the meantime I have a camera set up with a live stream on his enclosure. Feel free to open the link below and view him. Maybe there will be something that some one can see in his behavior that would give some insight as to what's wrong. Thanks every one.

http://172.14.28.20:8080/

*****I made an appointment with the vet this evening at 4pm. Hopefully the vet will help me figure something out. Thanks again.
 
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cricket4u

cricket4u

New member
I know that the idea of taking a hatchling to a vet is unpleasant, however, I believe that as responsible owners we owe them that much. This is a sensitive matter, therefore taking a guess would be very inappropriate. Even if the outcome turns out to be unfortunate, at least you cared enough to have the leo evaluated by a professional and you did not allow for him/her to continue suffering. Please update us after the vet examination.
 
J

Jstoker1238

New member
Okay, we just got back in from the Vet a little bit ago. Bottom line is that the Vet thinks Lil Flip is going to be okay. He said he didn't think it was anything we needed to X-Ray for and was most likely a nutrient deficiancy as Lil Flip hatched from the egg on the early side. (he hatched after 43 days) What he wants me to do is feed Lil Flip crickets gut loaded on chick starter for baby chickens. He weighed Flip and could barely get him to register on the scale, and put him down as weighing 1 gram. He thinks the leg will heal slowly over time as long as I put in the work in to properly gut load his feeders. Such a relief hearing that come from the Vet. I just tried to feed Flip but he wasn't having it tonight. . .I think the trip to the Vet office probably stressed him out so I'm going to leave him alone tonight and try again tomorrow, and I will find the chick starter stuff to gut load with as soon as I can.
 
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Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
I am somewhat surprised that the vet said some of these things with all the flailing around we see in the video from 12 day old Flip, but he's the expert. Was this an exotics vet experienced with leos?

What is your experience with leos?

What about completing our Health/Wellness Questionnaire just so we can make certain Flip's husbandry is the best possible?

Click:
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...68527-helping-your-sick-gecko-read-first.html

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-feeding-issues/68574-cricket-guidelines.html
 
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J

Jstoker1238

New member
I think the problem is only just his left back leg. His other legs haven't shown any weird symptoms since I posted that video, must have been a random one time occurance.

Here is a link to the Vet that looked over flip.
Encino Veterinary Clinic » Dr. James Isaacs

I am new to Leo's. Other than Flip, I have his mother Kahleesi who I've had since the end of August of this year. She's been wonderful.

I'll feel out the questionaire later when I have more time :)
 
cricket4u

cricket4u

New member
His other legs haven't shown any weird symptoms since I posted that video, must have been a random one time occurance.

This is exactly why a hands on examination is important. Do you know how many are quickly eliminated without a proper evaluation? Too many. They do not realize that at such a developmental stage, they have the ability to heal. Anyway, I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best.:)
 
J

Jstoker1238

New member
cricket4u said:
His other legs haven't shown any weird symptoms since I posted that video, must have been a random one time occurance.

This is exactly why a hands on examination is important. Do you know how many are quickly eliminated without a proper evaluation? Too many. They do not realize that at such a developmental stage, they have the ability to heal. Anyway, I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best.:)
Click to expand...

Here's an update, Lil' Flip is doing very good today. Last night he even stalked and ate his own mealworms without me having to feed them to him. He also stalked some crickets too but he wasn't good enough with his aim to catch them. Here is a video of him walking around today. His leg is looking to be healing very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jx5B-5xHcI
 
cricket4u

cricket4u

New member
This is what I would consider an exception to the pulling legs off the cricket. Try removing a leg or two to slow the cricket down. It will best for him under these conditions to eat more crickets than mealworms. Focus on providing proper temperatures to help the absorption of nutrients to strengthen those bones.
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Jstoker1238 said:
Here's an update, Lil' Flip is doing very good today. Last night he even stalked and ate his own mealworms without me having to feed them to him. He also stalked some crickets too but he wasn't good enough with his aim to catch them. Here is a video of him walking around today. His leg is looking to be healing very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jx5B-5xHcI
Click to expand...

I am very impressed with Flip's "performance" in this video!'' :biggrin:

Have you been able to find a nutritious food for Flip's crickets?

Try amputating both back legs of the crickets at the "knees". That will slow them down.

If that fails to work, try a shallow ceramic feeding dish or the tealight candleholder dish from Walmart that Tony Perkins recommends (in post #26 following the Leo Caresheet). For the latter, you may need a rock stepstool. :)

How are you doing with the temperatures in Flip's enclosure?
 
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J

Jstoker1238

New member
Elizabeth Freer said:
I am very impressed with Flip's "performance" in this video!'' :biggrin:

Have you been able to find a nutritious food for Flip's crickets?

Try amputating both back legs of the crickets at the "knees". That will slow them down.

If that fails to work, try a shallow ceramic feeding dish or the tealight candleholder dish from Walmart that Tony Perkins recommends (in post #26 following the Leo Caresheet). For the latter, you may need a rock stepstool. :)

How are you doing with the temperatures in Flip's enclosure?
Click to expand...

I'm very impressed with the little guy. . he seems to have made great recovery from his leg injury!
I actually went to my local reptile store and they had the Chick Starter stuff that the vet recommended and they sell it in little deli cups for about 99cents a cup. There is about 6-8 ounces in the cups and they sell it as "premium cricket chow" LOL. So that's what I've been gut loading Flips crickets with, as well as my adult's crickets too. (Kahleesi, Flip's mother.) I still leave a couple of Flukers Orange Cricket cubes though so they can get their water from those.

I have been breaking the crickets legs for him and it's really helped. Here is a video I took last night of him eating crickets on his own. .he's so funny with his itty bitty tail wiggle. .lol. I'm so glad that he's eating. I'm really hoping that when I take him back to the vet for his 30 day follow up that he will have put some weight on. He only weighed one gram. . and that was only put down because the vet was having trouble getting him to register anything on the scale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmUle6XocBM

The temps in his enclosure are great. It's a small 5 gal tank 14x10x8 so it's very easy to keep warm enough for him. I haven't had any issues with the heating at all.
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Go, Flip, go! :banana: :yahoo: that Flip has such a good appetite!

The temps in his enclosure are great. It's a small 5 gal tank 14x10x8 so it's very easy to keep warm enough for him. I haven't had any issues with the heating at all.
Click to expand...

Pretty soon you'll want to give him a larger enclosure where you'll be able to have a real warm end and cool end. I'm thinking Flip's temperatures are warm now and that seems to be doing him good.
 
cricket4u

cricket4u

New member
I still leave a couple of Flukers Orange Cricket cubes though so they can get their water from those.
Click to expand...
These cubes do not provide a good amount of moisture and they actually dry out quickly. It would be best to use water gel and/or wet paper towel. I noticed the crickets are more hydrated by providing water on paper towel vs. water gel alone. I provide water gel as well due to the fact that the paper towel dries within 12 hours or so.
 
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J

Jstoker1238

New member
cricket4u said:
These cubes do not provide a good amount of moisture and they actually dry out quickly. It would be best to use water gel and/or wet paper towel. I noticed the crickets are more hydrated by providing water on paper towel vs. water gel alone. I provide water gel as well due to the fact that the paper towel dries within 12 hours or so.
Click to expand...

Yeah I've noticed that they do dry up rather quickly, so I remove the dried up ones and replace them daily. I'll probably do this until I run out of the cubes, then I'll go to wet paper towels.

Elizabeth Freer said:
Go, Flip, go! :banana: :yahoo: that Flip has such a good appetite!



Pretty soon you'll want to give him a larger enclosure where you'll be able to have a real warm end and cool end. I'm thinking Flip's temperatures are warm now and that seems to be doing him good.
Click to expand...

Yeah I keep it between 88-91 on the warm end and around 72-75 on the cool end. I check it everyday with a Zoomed temp gauge with probe. He has a UTH and an overhead heating lamp that I utilize when needed. I did all my research on proper heating before I ever purchased Flips mother Kahleesi. So no worries on that front :) And as Flip grows, I'll keep upgrading his enclosure.
 
J

Jstoker1238

New member
1480721_10151845619036376_2112921872_n.jpg
Lil Flip is doing great! He shed for his second time yesterday, and he is at least 2 1/2 inches in length now and I don't have a scale but judging by how he's filled out I'd say he probably at least weighs an Entire gram now. .maybe even a gram and a half!
 
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