Interesting read regarding Supplementing and D3!

Yuk

Yuk

New member
Very interesting read!

Her conclusion summed it up well:

"It is not known how much supplementation, if any, is needed for different species. In monkey medicine, for example, Old World monkeys do not need Vit D3 supplements at all while New World monkeys NEED Vit D3 added to their diets. Can we meet their needs better by better gut-loading of our insects and by using a variety of insects in conjunction with proper lighting? Then we can supplement with much less frequency. Please see Susan's Cricket food recipe. I think is well balanced and I have a few of her babies which are remarkable in their health."

I'm going to check out that cricket food recipe also :) Thank you for the very helpful article! This is the sort of stuff (vet recommended) that I really take to heart.
 
hmarie186

hmarie186

New member
Good read!

You should be able to find monkey biscuits at a feed store. Mazuri makes a good brand but sells mostly in 50 lb bags. :( I've been debating pulling the low fat holistic dog food and oat mix from my roaches and mealworms and feeding a ground up Harlan Teklad 2014 Rodent Diet. It's got all the vitamins and minerals but with 14% protein and 4% fat, no animal or soy ingredients.
 
cricket4u

cricket4u

New member
Did you guys notice the date? 2008. You may want to contact these people and make sure this gut load worked out.
 
Hilde

Hilde

Administrator
Staff member
That's the gutload mentioned in the article.

The original purpose was to gutload insects for chameleons. In case you're not aware of it, chams are very easily affected by poor diet, wrong supplementation, and just about anything else. They don't compromise, either they get what they need, or they pretty much go down hill.

cricket4u said:
Did you guys notice the date? 2008. You may want to contact these people and make sure this gut load worked out.
Click to expand...

I used only that gutload for years when I had chams. It worked great. Even geckos thrived on crickets raised on the diet, allowing me to drastically cut back on dusting their prey. It's not a perfect diet, but it sure is close. It's actually been around longer than 2008, I believe somewhere around 2000. Google the recipe by name, you'll see it's been around for at least 12-14 years.

As for how it worked out - perfectly. It's not just my experience, but the others in the chameleon group (dedicated keepers). The people who came up with the recipe, Susan James, Don Wells, and Ken Lopez, DVM, are well known for their work with chameleons. Dr. Lopez is the author of the Vitamin D3 and Calcium article in the original post.


It's a bit difficult to get the ingredients, but worth while. I still use it, but alternate with another gutload that's easier to make with ingredients that are readily available.

Monkey chow is often sold as parrot biscuits. The chow is notoriously difficult to grind. I broke a blender trying it the first time. The best was I have found is to put a few biscuits into a plastic bag, smack them with a hammer until they're small chunks, and then try to grind them. Apparently some food processors can managed it, but I use my mom's antique meat grinder. Or you could put the crushed pieces in a fresh bag and drive over it a few times with your car, or truck, as one person did. Apparently that works well too, if the car is heavy enough.
 
cricket4u

cricket4u

New member
Hilde said:
That's the gutload mentioned in the article.

The original purpose was to gutload insects for chameleons. In case you're not aware of it, chams are very easily affected by poor diet, wrong supplementation, and just about anything else. They don't compromise, either they get what they need, or they pretty much go down hill.



I used only that gutload for years when I had chams. It worked great. Even geckos thrived on crickets raised on the diet, allowing me to drastically cut back on dusting their prey. It's not a perfect diet, but it sure is close. It's actually been around longer than 2008, I believe somewhere around 2000. Google the recipe by name, you'll see it's been around for at least 12-14 years.

As for how it worked out - perfectly. It's not just my experience, but the others in the chameleon group (dedicated keepers). The people who came up with the recipe, Susan James, Don Wells, and Ken Lopez, DVM, are well known for their work with chameleons. Dr. Lopez is the author of the Vitamin D3 and Calcium article in the original post.


It's a bit difficult to get the ingredients, but worth while. I still use it, but alternate with another gutload that's easier to make with ingredients that are readily available.

Monkey chow is often sold as parrot biscuits. The chow is notoriously difficult to grind. I broke a blender trying it the first time. The best was I have found is to put a few biscuits into a plastic bag, smack them with a hammer until they're small chunks, and then try to grind them. Apparently some food processors can managed it, but I use my mom's antique meat grinder. Or you could put the crushed pieces in a fresh bag and drive over it a few times with your car, or truck, as one person did. Apparently that works well too, if the car is heavy enough.
Click to expand...

Part of what I wrote went missing. Unless I accidentally deleted it before I hit submit, who knows. Sometimes you try the same gut load for 2 different species and it works for one, but not well for another. This is all that I remember attempting to write that vanished.

In case you're not aware of it, chams are very easily affected by poor diet, wrong supplementation, and just about anything else. They don't compromise, either they get what they need, or they pretty much go down hill.
Click to expand...

How frustrating, I accidentally left the page and what I typed is gone. I tried the auto save and there was only about 5 words of what I typed? Never mind. I guess I'l reply one I have the energy again.:sad:
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Hilde said:
......

It's a bit difficult to get the ingredients, but worth while. I still use it, but alternate with another gutload that's easier to make with ingredients that are readily available.

Monkey chow is often sold as parrot biscuits. The chow is notoriously difficult to grind. I broke a blender trying it the first time. The best was I have found is to put a few biscuits into a plastic bag, smack them with a hammer until they're small chunks, and then try to grind them. Apparently some food processors can managed it, but I use my mom's antique meat grinder. Or you could put the crushed pieces in a fresh bag and drive over it a few times with your car, or truck, as one person did. Apparently that works well too, if the car is heavy enough.
Click to expand...

Hilde ~

How would you feel about sharing your gutload recipe?
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
cricket4u said:
That is not convincing nor helpful, (I'm not being mean):). It would be nice to find his practice information. A number where he can be contacted. This is what I have not been able to find. I would like to ask him a few questions in regards to the Chameleon gutload.
Click to expand...

Good luck.....
 
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