Digestion Issues?

[animateash]

My 7.5 yr old leo went to the vet last week after 2 months of steady weight loss despite eating. She would eat, but only 1-2 bugs per feeding whereas her sibling tank mates can easily put away 5-8.

The vet found no obvious signs of disease and did not feel there was a blockage (no dark spots and she got peed on during the exam). She sent me home with Carafte, Cimetidine, and Baytril drops to give daily. Her primary theory was something like stomach infection or ulcer which made eating uncomfortable. For lack of any other indicators, her other theories included less treatable things like kidney failure or cancer. Without $400 in X-rays and fecal analysis, we can't tell....and even after all that the vet confessed we may not have a concrete answer.

We do not suspect parasites like Crypto since the tank mates are all fat, healthy, and active.

After the vet visit my gecko ate 3 mealworms. 2 days later, she regurgitated them. Thinking maybe the worms irritate her stomach, I have since been giving her a daily syringe feeding of electrolyte drops+avian vitamins+flavorless protein powder. She has been receptive to it and her energy has definitely improved. My concern is that she's received this slurpy for 4 days now, eating around 45ccs of it, and has NOT pooped at all.

How long should this be taking to digest? Is it possible her starved body is using all this liquid formula and not creating a detectable amount of waste? Or, should I be concerned that there IS actually a blockage? Even though her energy has been great of this mix, I don't want to keep filling her if nothing can get through.

The tank has an UTH and ceramic heat emitting bulb up top. The tank mates are her siblings she has lived with her all her life, so there's no bullying happening. All the tank mates, who would share the same water, food, and temps, are totally fat and healthy.

Any ideas what is wrong? I want to do what is right for my pet, but $400 of fecal testing is not easy since I'm between jobs. The vet actually encouraged me not to spend all that since she thinks the problem may be something like a cancer or liver/ kidney issue, which can't be treated anyway.

 

[hmarie186]

How many are living in the tank with her and how many hides? Ground temps on warm and cool side? Just because you don't see intimidation doesn't mean it's not there. What is your substrate? What size tank? Lack of appetite, regurg and weight loss are all common symptoms of parasites. I don't think a vet can just look at an animal and make a diagnosis on whether or not they have them. It's probably the most common cause, easily treatable but can be fatal if not treated.

ETA: $400 for a fecal? Shouldn't cost more than $25 or so to check for rounds, tapes, pins, coccidia- the common ones.

 

[animateash]

How many are living in the tank with her and how many hides? Ground temps on warm and cool side? Just because you don't see intimidation doesn't mean it's not there. What is your substrate? What size tank? Lack of appetite, regurg and weight loss are all common symptoms of parasites. I don't think a vet can just look at an animal and make a diagnosis on whether or not they have them. It's probably the most common cause, easily treatable but can be fatal if not treated.

ETA: $400 for a fecal? Shouldn't cost more than $25 or so to check for rounds, tapes, pins, coccidia- the common ones.

3 tank mates and 4 hides, paper towels are the only substrate. I've been a leo owner for over 15yrs, so I'm not making common mistakes like sand. The tank is 20 gallons. Hot side temp is around 88, cold side unknown. The thermometer on that side quit working a few months ago but nothing about their conditions has changed in the 7+yrs I've owned them, so I've assumed its still appropriate. Since its winter, they're almost always hanging on the hot side anyway.

The minimum amount my vet would charge for fecal analysis was $119. She called it a "reptile profile" but it did not include checking for any of the parasites you've just mentioned. To check for crypto was $400 total, and she said it was because they had to overnight the sample somewhere and look at the RNA. I don't know why that'd be needed, but that's what she said. There are no other exotic vets in the area, so I have no options other than what she presents me.
The other problem with getting feces analyzed is my original problem she ISN'T pooping. Can't get poo analyzed for parasites if there's nothing to test.

 

[hmarie186]

I have a non reptile vet do fecals. They do them the exact same way they would a dog or cat. It does not cost $119.

Four adult animals and only four hides seems very low. If she does not have access to her own warm hide and moist hide she will not be eating because they need belly heat to digest. Without it you will see lack of appetite. They may have lived together fine up until now but things can change. Leopard geckos are really not a social species. They don't need friends, even if they are siblings.

It truly sounds like parasites or she is intimidated from crowding, lack of access to a secure hide and therefore improper temps.

I hope you do not feel like you are being talked down to by being asked basic questions. We all have things we learn all the time and when someone comes on here saying " help my gecko is sick/not eating/has diarrhea/etc" and aren't given enough information we have to start from scratch. There are a lot of very informative people here and we all have your geckos best interests in mind, even if the suggestions may not be what you want to hear.

PS. If you want to have a crypto test done, go thru avian biotech. It's $24.50. Had it done for both of mine. It angers me when vets take advantage of people.

 

[animateash]

PS. If you want to have a crypto test done, go thru avian biotech. It's $24.50. Had it done for both of mine. It angers me when vets take advantage of people.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info about the crypto test! That is very handy to know and I will check them out.

I finally got a sample of what I believe to be her stool, since it looks a lot like the liquid diet mix I've been feeding her. Just dropped it by the vet and talked them into a "basic fecal float" without all the reptile profiling they were trying to sell me on before. $27 and hopefully it'll be informative. They say results will be in tomorrow. Crossing my fingers that you may be right and this is a simple parasite treatment away from resolved. Just having her poop felt like a victory!

I see what you're saying about the hides and tank mates in regard to a most set ups, but I think whats different about mine is that they are all siblings of the same age, from the same breeder, brought home all together. They have never lived apart their entire 7.5 yrs. They are also all female. It would just seem strange that now, suddenly, one feels so intimidated she won't eat. I suppose it isn't impossible, but it seems unlikely since the hide situation has been in place for so long. The rest of the tank mates are all voracious eaters and pooping regularly, so belly heat and temps would seem to be mostly in check. I will monitor them a little closer to be sure I have what I think I have.

 

[hmarie186]

:yahoo: for poop! Hopefully it will turn up something. Please keep us updated. If she has parasites, you may want to treat them all since they are sharing the same space, water, food bowl and are exposed to each other's feces.

If you need a liquid diet with a little more substance to it, Oxbows Carnivore Care is highly recommended. It's a complete diet suitable for insectivores.

 

[Conched]

Too be honest with you, I think the tank is overcrowded and those circumstances can and often do cause poor feeding responses. Reptiles do not acknowledge one another as siblings, but more like competitors, that is why they don't travel in packs etc…reptiles are generally solitary animals.

You might try separating her from the rest and give her a few weeks to adjust.

If one animal in your current collection has parasites than they all do,especially under the housing circumstances, so I would be shocked if it comes back positive.

Sometimes it just turns out that what has been working for several years just stops working the next. There is no secret sauce here, you will have to adapt with the changes of your leo colony.

I applaud you for reaching out to the forum, even experienced reptile keepers can use a second opinion once in a while.

I am keeping my fingers crossed it is not parasites.

Best of luck.

Matt

 

[animateash]

We have a verdict! PINWORMS! I have an appointment tomorrow to take all of the geckos in to be weighed so I can be sent home with a proper amount of de-worming medicine. All but one of them are pretty receptive to being held and hand fed, so I'll give them the meds via syringe at home.
I guess the biggest task ahead will be thoroughly cleaning the tank and all dishes. Has anyone had to go through a big sterilization like this before? Should I go as far as boiling/ bleaching things like their log and coconut hides?

 

[animateash]

The verdict from the vet is pinworms! I have an appt. for tomorrow to get all the geckos weighed so i can go home with an appropriate amount of Panacure to treat everyone just in case.

I am also super relieved to report that there's definitely no impaction. Stubby took an ENORMOUS poop tonight...possibly the largest I've seen from a leo. The path is clear!

If anyone has tips on cleaning the cage thoroughly post-de-worming, I welcome them. Most sites are saying a diluted bleach solution will work well. Should I boil stuff like the coconut and log hides instead of bleach soaking them?

 

[hmarie186]

Went thru it with Edgar. Bleach and let it all air out several hours til the smell is gone. The meds may make them feel a bit off for a few weeks. Also be sure to take another sample back about a week after meds are done.

 

[animateash]

Went thru it with Edgar. Bleach and let it all air out several hours til the smell is gone. The meds may make them feel a bit off for a few weeks. Also be sure to take another sample back about a week after meds are done.

Good to know its pretty straight forward. Bleach cleaning went well, though I know the geckos are annoyed that their favorite hides are missing (still air drying in the bath tub).

I've been calling around town to try and find some carnivore care. Amazon has it but it won't show up until after xmas. I may make a mealworm based slurry I read about on a different forum in the meantime. I'm hoping Stubby will show interest in some worms in the next day or two.