Hatchling ID help. Strange RAxRA outcome.

[ChaoFan]

Hello All,
i had an unexpected outcome when pairing what i am (was) sure are two "simple" RAPTORs. The first clutch just hatched last weekend, they both do not seem like Eclipse nor patternless stripe. Neither of them has red or snake eyes. Is this even possible?
In addition, they are pretty white, one more than the other. Can the mother be Mack Snow?

So, they look to me like Tremper Albino, maybe Snow.

I am now 99.9% sure they are coming from this pair of male and female, i saw them mating (100% sure) and she has never been close to any other male (0.1% doubt after seeing the hatchlings...). I have the female since last year.

Here's the father:


Here the mother:


And here the hatchlings:

 

[acpart]

Definitely albinos, as you know. Do the parents have red eyes? Do the hatchlings have solid eyes? I discovered that sometimes an albino eclipse's eyes look solid black but if you shine a light behind them you can see they're actually red. I agree that the hatchling on the left definitely looks like a Mack snow and the one on the right may be as well, but looks a bit yellower. Two seasons ago I bred a male Mack snow to a female I bought as an aptor het raptor. To my surprise they produced some super snows so the female turned out to be a Mack snow as well.
It seems as if each hatchling inherited some of the raptor traits, namely striping (in the case of one hatchling), albino and possibly tangerine coloring (time will tell). True raptors should be patternless stripes so technically I wouldn't necessarily consider the parents raptors (instead,I'd consider them to be albino eclipse stripes) but other people would call them raptors.

Aliza

 

[ChaoFan]

Thanks Aliza,
both parents have solid eyes which, as you described, look red if you shine a light behind them.
Hatchlings do not have solid eyes, not even snake, they are clearly albino eyes and very pink at the moment. it feels very strange to me that the Eclipse gene was not inherited.

I guess only time will tell me more...or the next clutch in the incubator now
the only chance that the father is not the 'raptor' in the picture is one night i kept together several females (including this, i was modifying the enclosures set up) with one mack snow albino, but it was back in early January and this clutch that just hatched was laid on 2/24, 20 days after the 'raptors' mating.

So, either that single night back in January was the one, or the female is a mack snow and for some reason the eclipse gene was not transmitted. Hatching a super snow on the next clutch would help a lot...

Thanks again,
Michele

 

[acpart]

Good luck figuring it out. I don't know if it's possible for two eclipses not to produce an eclipse since my understanding is that it's recessive. It's possible that as the hatchling grows you'll discover it has 1 or 2 tiny amounts of snake eye which would qualify it as an eclipse.

Aliza

 

[ChaoFan]

Hello All,
an update after 3.5 months of life... they are growing pretty fast and healthy, they both are now at around 35g. They are still not showing any sign of Eclipse (meaning in this case snake eyes) and looking at their July's siblings, i am more and more convinced that the father is not the RAPTOR i was convinced (well, i am sure i saw them mating...).

Any other thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Michele

April's Juvenile1


April's Juvenile 2


July's Hatchling 1

July's Hatchling 2 (the yellow parts are much brighter than in real life, i used the phone's flash)

 

[Perfecthair]

Wow thats odd but all the babies look really great i love the colors

 

[Catiebug13]

Hello! Those are some beautiful babies! I have heard that females can hold sperm for a really long time. That some breeders don't have to reintroduce the males every breeding season. That being said, it looks like that one night long ago was enough for her. ;-)

 

[ChaoFan]

@Perfectchair & Catiebub13:
Thanks! yes, i love the colours too and i love the personality of the first pair hatched in April, they eat eagerly and come towards me whenever i come close to the enclosure.
i will definitely hold back a female (from April) and one male (from July) and see if i can prove that that night was really the night...