Thermostats - proportional vs "on/off question re long term benefits

[amsdadtodd]

I have an opportunity to acquire a high end, highly rated thermostat for use in a test lab environment, and then retain for my own use upon completion of the test. I have selected the Spyder Robotics Herpstat 4 (see Spyder Robotics ) for my lab test.

Although it's generally accepted that the less pricy on/off type thermostats are fine for our vivs, I'm curious whether there is any long term study data available comparing the overall health and longevity of leo's maintained using the two types of controls.

Of course an incubator would be an application where such a controller would be desirable, but for now I'm only interested in the vivarium scenario.

Thank you,

Todd

 

[JessJohnson87]

oooooo that sounds interesting.

 

[CWilson13]

I am not sure of a name, but one of the newer members here uses a similar thermostat. I am still looking through the intros to see if I can find them. Once I do I will link it so maybe the two of you can chat about their experience

Found her thread.
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/community/leopard-geckos-husbandry-housing-and-heating/79655-little-miss-lilou.html

 

[JessJohnson87]

Shane (or Zux) uses the same thing. I still do not fully understand how the proportional thermostats work.

 

[Zux]

I also use pulse proportional stats of a different brand for both of my heating devices for my Leo. Though I don't have any experiences of regular thermostats to compare that with sadly.

Here are the ones I use Habistat Pulse-Proportional Thermostat: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies

- Shane

 

[JessJohnson87]

speak of the devil ^^

Shane, get out of my head....

 

[amsdadtodd]

Thank you Cory. I think I also remember one of the older members writing about it, and probably even the same manufacturer (Spyder Robotics). I'm interested to hear long term benefits of such tight control, over a period of years, but it would be interesting to read any comments which [MENTION=56457]Lilou[/MENTION] may have to offer.

FWIW, my initial use of this control has nothing to do with herps, I need to control the temp of three zones for a project at work calibrating magnetic sensors. Since it isn't NIST traceable, I can get away with this one, and wind up with a new toy for my own use when I'm done. I may go on my own design spree though and see if I can homebrew one using a different way to moderate the narrow range temps. I'm thinking something similar to some LED lighting work I did a few years ago maintaining light density against natural lighting.

But, that's for another day, near term, I just want to understand the value of that tight of a control in raising leopard gecko's!

Thank you!
Todd

 

[Zux]

Jess is so fast at replying ! :biggrin:

Basically Jess, these stats once you tell them what temp you want, pulse only the electricity needed to maintain that exact temperature and no more or no less. That is as distinct from being either on full power until 3 >/< degrees over and then off until 3 >/< under. Pulse Proportional stats are reportedly Ideal for things like CHE's and it extends their lifespan enormously but basically they are designed to offer a more constant temperature with little to no fluctuation.


- Shane

 

[CWilson13]

I will be looking for any info you share with us Todd. I have considered getting one to replace the hydrofarm I have for my BRB. I don't really know a great deal about them other than they are more consistency based than the hydrofarm (generic reference to the type) ones many of us are using. Shane already said all that though lol

 

[JessJohnson87]

I would love to have one, but right now that is not feasible. Even the $100 one is a little to steep for my budget. The hydrofarm one I ordered has been doing a good job keeping the floor of the tank heated to the right temps.

 

[amsdadtodd]

What Shane said! Basically, an "old fashioned" thermostat is an on/off switch activated by temperature. A proportional thermostat acts like both a switch and a dimmer, so it maintains tighter control. The downside is that it can't be used on any devices which cannot be dimmed.

Todd

 

[JessJohnson87]

Yeah I read that part about not using it on a space heater or things like that. But they keep the temperature constant, the light dimmer I was using until the thermostat came in kept fluctuating the temperature too much. It was either 94* or 84* and not much in between. Thank goodness I was home to keep playing with it.

 

[Zux]

I wouldn't worry about it Jess, if you have a working Thermostat the small fluctuation in temperatures are in my view highly unlikely to bother your gecko. I mean lets face it, they face fluctuations by the half hour or less in the wild all day and night so.

They are nice to have for piece of mind and that little extra comfort for the gecko perhaps. But being honest id put changing a working thermostat for a fancy one towards the bottom of my list of priorities. With that said you're probably like me and going to do it at some point anyway because we love them too much :yahoo:

- Shane

 

[JessJohnson87]

lol yes, after the long list of Jeep parts are ordered for the 1 ton axle swap my husband intends to do once he is home from deployment. I'm sure he doesn't mind the fluctuation. In the area that Leo's are found, the temperatures in the winter at night can get as low as 10* so if they can survive that, they can survive at 84* until the mat kicks back on.

 

[amsdadtodd]

Even the on/off thermostats have an accuracy of generally =/- 2 degrees, so one set for 90 could actually be anywhere between 88 and 92. As you both already said, I doubt this range is of any significance, and is the root of my original question.
Of course, that 4 degree window can certainly have an impact in an incubator, and could be the difference between hatching males or females. But for viv only, i'm just curious if there has ever been a study which has produced any tangible results.

Todd

 

[JessJohnson87]

I'm curious to. Seems like an interesting study to perform, but there is probably more tangible evidence on how a proportional vs on/off thermostat affect incubation of eggs. Whether it be scientific or someone doing a studying out of their "herp" room for curiosity sake.

 

[Lilou]

I have an opportunity to acquire a high end, highly rated thermostat for use in a test lab environment, and then retain for my own use upon completion of the test. I have selected the Spyder Robotics Herpstat 4 (see Spyder Robotics ) for my lab test.

Although it's generally accepted that the less pricy on/off type thermostats are fine for our vivs, I'm curious whether there is any long term study data available comparing the overall health and longevity of leo's maintained using the two types of controls.

Of course an incubator would be an application where such a controller would be desirable, but for now I'm only interested in the vivarium scenario.

Thank you,

Todd

Hi Todd,

I have a herpstat intro + and I am a new leo owner.

What types of things are you measuring to determine health? I do not know the average growth rate of a leo, or exactly how old my Lilou is, but I have been weighing her every now and then. She seems to be healthy and happy. She is periodically handled and fed every day.

On 10/26, she weighed 17 g.
11/4, 22 g.
11/21, 27 g.

What other kind of information would be useful to your test?

 

[amsdadtodd]

As I mentioned in my original post, the most interesting data would be very long term, a period of years. It would include general health of leo's, infections over time, breeding data, time between sheds, and ultimately, longevity. It really would require several samples in a tightly controlled environment for several years (ideally the entire life span of all the test leo's) to get the entire data set.
Basically, I'm trying to find scientific justification to incur the cost of the more tightly controlled temperature range.

Thanks,
Todd

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

As I mentioned in my original post, the most interesting data would be very long term, a period of years. It would include general health of leo's, infections over time, breeding data, time between sheds, and ultimately, longevity. It really would require several samples in a tightly controlled environment for several years (ideally the entire life span of all the test leo's) to get the entire data set.
Basically, I'm trying to find scientific justification to incur the cost of the more tightly controlled temperature range.

Thanks,
Todd

This sounds like life span assessments of specific leos, which could take 20 years. I'm not sure there is any reason to tightly control temperature ranges for leopard geckos. Certainly Mother Nature has significant ranges.

In the wild leopard geckos burrow. That alone insulates them from the weather.

 

[CWilson13]

Just found this thread again and since I will be getting a Herpstat 1 soon, I figured, even though it will not be used for a gecko, I could weigh in once it is up and running. The proportional thermostat came HIGHLY recommended by a breeder I have been in contact with regarding Epicrates Cenchria.
Definitely looking forward to this new product since my on/off style and thermometer/hygrometer are so seldom reading the same temperatures.