Hi, new member here

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Keeboard

New member
Firstly, welcome to GU! Secondly, I highly recommend you get him off that sand unless you're certain you provide the correct care such as temperatures. If you're not certain, he'll probably get impacted, which will kill him if not taken care of. I recommend you try tile or Eco earth. Tile is permanent, there's no risk of impaction, it's a good heat conductor, etc. Eco earth is great as long as you dry it out first; it lets your gecko dig, is more comfortable than tile, and has a much lower impaction risk than sand regardless of care since it doesn't clump and just breaks down into smaller pieces when ingested. I almost forgot to ask: is that sand calcium sand?
 

Zux

New member
Wonderful to see you here Justin,

I had a lovely interaction with you the last couple of days on you-tube.
I hope you will be able to use the resources here to amend the issues with husbandry you are having.

Welcome to the forum.

[MENTION=54498]Keeboard[/MENTION] Its Calcium Sand :roll:
 

Keeboard

New member
To original thread poster: calcium is no more digestable than normal sand. So your gecko doesn't eat it to get the calcium, you must provide the right amount of vitamins and pure calcium.
 

Zux

New member
To original thread poster: calcium is no more digestable than normal sand. So your gecko doesn't eat it to get the calcium, you must provide the right amount of vitamins and pure calcium.

It is impossible even with regular blood-work to know those 'right' amounts, supplementation, even today, is utter guesswork at best. Which is part of why we provide a varied diet in an effort to overcome some of our inevitable shortcomings when it comes to the provision of all vitamins and minerals.

Housing any Gecko on Calcium Sand is certain to cause problems, its not a case of if, but when. Particularly so when hydration, diet and temperature control are all almost certain to be lacking also.
 

Abigail1

New member
Beautiful gecko! I would suggest getting him off the sand- leos live in rocky terrains in the wild, and aren't built to live on sand; he could eat it and develop health issues. At least that's what I have read. I've also read about people who have plenty of success with sand, as long as the sand is very fine, but I personally wouldn't risk it for my gecko. There are much safer substrates, such as tile, which is closest to the gecko's natural environment, or repticarpet. Eco earth is also an option, although there's still a risk that your gecko will eat it and not be able to digest it, but I don't think it's too high of a risk. Here's a link to some info on impaction if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watchv=jBJSxCuI1gI
 

Keeboard

New member
I'm not trying to be all, "sand is absolutely fine", but leopard geckos have been kept on even calcium sand successfully. Of coarse, there's lots of better substrates
 

Zux

New member
I'm not trying to be all, "sand is absolutely fine", but leopard geckos have been kept on even calcium sand successfully. Of coarse, there's lots of better substrates

Sand is fine. albeit a poor choice for Leopard Geckos, but Calcium Sand is not fine.

Just because Geckos have survived being kept on Calcium Sand doesn't make it a good idea. There is literally no reason to expose any Gecko to a danger like that when the same effect can be achieved with playsand and the risk is effectively removed.
 
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Justin Adams

New member
Oh yes shane you were the very rude person who insisted i didn't care for any of my animals very well after i showed you that snakes aren't very active animals and don't need a gigantic cage.

@ the rest of you
thank you for the warm welcome, i do my very best to keep him at the recommended temperatures as well as keeping my eye on him to make sure he is not licking up the sand or ingesting any with his dubia roaches, i've had him for three years now and no health issues have arisen. I'm of course very aware that they wont eat the sand to get their required calcium, as i dust my feeders just prior to feeding. in all likelihood i'll be posting photos of the dubia colony i'm starting.

I also wanted to note that eublepharius macularius inhabits a very wide range of habitats, and aren't strict rock dwellers; indeed inhabiting areas with vast expanses of sand, for example we have this photo from a book on various gecko species
http://http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff147/AlbertaBredGecko/Leopard%20Geckos%20in%20the%20wild/IMG_2089.jpg
Interestingly enough i just did get done with a paper describing that wild leopard geckos inhabit a wide range of habitats, very adaptable animals they are. i'll post that up if any one is curious. Cheers to all!
 
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Justin Adams

New member
I would wager any sand is fine if you're paying close enough attention and are caring for your animals properly; some would(probably are) going to argue that sand and proper husbandry dont go hand in hand for leopard geckos, but this is pretty glaring misconception and one that breeds contempt for others. my pal shane was one of those who directed this towards me on youtube. I've got another video coming by the way, this one demonstrating my leopard gecko is a very healthy animal. again i will have to stress the fact that because some people have had issues with a certain substrate doesn't mean everyone will(a notion asserted by shane here in fact), that's just silly and fear mongering in my opinion. Common sense and proper attention is all that is necessary, in addition to basic knowledge of leopard gecko keeping that is. This probably reads like more of a rant but it does seriously bother me when someone implies i don't care for my animals at all.
 
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Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Hi Justin ~

A warm welcome to Geckos Unlimited!

I'm wondering whether anyone can see the link you shared in post 9. It does not work for me.
 

Zux

New member
Oh yes shane you were the very rude person who insisted i didn't care for any of my animals very well after i showed you that snakes aren't very active animals and don't need a gigantic cage.

I think you may be a little confused, but this is not the sort of forum where abusing people will be tolerated, so it is good you are showing a level of decency here.


i do my very best to keep him at the recommended temperatures as well as keeping my eye on him to make sure he is not licking up the sand or ingesting any with his dubia roaches

  • Generally speaking the people here consider thermostats to be necessary to control temperatures, how are you doing this without one?
  • I still dont understand how you can think it is worth housing him on Calcium Sand or how you have the time and will to watch the Gecko at all times to make sure he doesnt consume it?




I've had him for three years now and no health issues have arisen. I'm of course very aware that they wont eat the sand to get their required calcium, as i dust my feeders just prior to feeding. in all likelihood i'll be posting photos of the dubia colony i'm starting.
  • That is great news your Gecko hasn't shown signs of serious illness for three years :banana:.
  • The Gecko absolutely WILL lick the sand and worse actively ingest to regulate Calcium levels, as I explained to Keeboard it is not possible for you or anybody to know how much or how little Calcium is required and as such the Gecko will inevitably consume it in your absence.


I also wanted to note that eublepharius macularius inhabits areas with vast expanses of sand, for example we have this photo from a book on various gecko species
http://http://i240.photobucket.com/a...d/IMG_2089.jpg
Interestingly enough i just did get done with a paper describing that wild leopard geckos inhabit a wide range of habitats i'll post that up if any one is curious. Cheers to all!

That is pretty much entirely false and the photo doesn't work, I would love to see that paper.

I would wager any sand is fine if you're paying close enough attention and are caring for your animals properly; some would(probably are) going to argue that sand and proper husbandry dont go hand in hand for leopard geckos, but this is pretty glaring misconception and one that breeds contempt for others. my pal shane was one of those who directed this towards me on youtube. I've got another video coming by the way, this one demonstrating my leopard gecko is a very healthy animal. again i will have to stress the fact that because some people have had issues with a certain substrate doesn't mean everyone will(a notion asserted by shane here in fact), that's just silly and fear mongering in my opinion. Common sense and proper attention is all that is necessary, in addition to basic knowledge of leopard gecko keeping that is. This probably reads like more of a rant but it does seriously bother me when someone implies i don't care for my animals at all.

Like I said, you seem to be quite confused.

Everybody here is well aware I use loose substrates for all my Reptiles and commonly advocate them for experienced keepers, so that is not gonna fly im afraid.. Please try to not make this an argument between individuals.

As I made perfectly clear here and elsewhere, Calcium Sand is what I draw umbridge with, not sand.
 
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Hilde

Administrator
Staff member
Stay calm, people. This was meant to be an introduction, but the thread has strayed. It's getting really close to being closed.

If you want to discuss substrate, do it, but keep it civil.
Maybe start a new discussion about it in the substrates sub-forum.
 

Justin Adams

New member
To all interested, here is the paper(sorry for the long link)
http://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/45991093/Habitat_herpetology__.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ56TQJRTWSMTNPEA&Expires=1470693931&Signature=Sm%2FhREyFuJjX5N9T9zbOixL%2Fj1Y%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DHerpetology_of_habitat_types_of_Pakistan.pdf
[MENTION=55860]Zux[/MENTION],
I think you may be a little confused, but this is not the sort of forum where abusing people will be tolerated, so it is good you are showing a level of decency here.
but i guess telling people that they dont care for their animals is ok on other sites, i got you.

Generally speaking the people here consider thermostats to be necessary to control temperatures, how are you doing this without one?
You dont need a thermostat to control temperatures, you can keep them at the temperature that is fit with the use of heat lamps or heating pads as well. probably easier when you use a thermostat though.

I still dont understand how you can think it is worth housing him on Calcium Sand or how you have the time and will to watch the Gecko at all times to make sure he doesn't consume it?
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't work, you do understand that right? i don't really appreciate the condescending tone of your replies either, like you're talking to a child, so i kindly request you not do so. I watch and maintain my animal to make sure he does not ingest the sand when he eats, or just in general really. he doesn't eat it at all, and he is not seeking it out as supplement to the calcium i give him. I know this because unlike you're trying to insinuate here(again) im very cautious with the substrate.

That is great news your Gecko hasn't shown signs of serious illness for three years
Nor is he going to.
That is pretty much entirely false and the photo doesn't work,
you're seriously tring to tell me that leopard geckos dont inhabit areas with vast expanses of sand, really? that doesn't even make sense. Of course they like rocky outcrops and whathaveyou so they can shelter themselves but you saying they don't live in areas with sand is utter nonsense, and saying that they don't utlilize and walk on this sand is equally incorrect
here's the photo that didn't work for whatever reason
IMG_2089.jpg

leopard%20gecko%20natural%20habitat_zps6bbdnjsm.png

Like I said, you seem to be quite confused.
you can say this all you'd like but it doesn't make it any more true.

Everybody here is well aware I use loose substrates for all my Reptiles and commonly advocate them for experienced keepers, so that is not gonna fly im afraid.. Please try to not make this an argument between individuals.
"that's not gonna fly" you can brush it off all you'd like mate;
you made this an argument between individuals when you criticized my husbandry elsewhere without knowing the exacts that i practice.

As I made perfectly clear here and elsewhere, Calcium Sand is what I draw umbridge with, not sand.
The only thing you made clear elsewhere is the fact that you like to block people but sure.
 

Zux

New member
The only thing you made clear elsewhere is the fact that you like to block people but sure.

Which you have made pretty clear was the correct decision, one I think I'll have to make (for the first time ever) here on GU also.

I wish you the best of luck in increasing your understanding and getting care issues resolved for the future.
 
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