Loose substrates for leos question

JTB

New member
Okay! Sounds good to me! I'm going to do a bit more research and I think I'll end up going for it, but you never know. Hopefully if I do I will be able to persuade people out of the common mind set that they need paper towels and darkness to thrive...

Thanks for helping Shane, as per usual I've learnt a lot in talking with you!
 

Zux

New member
Okay! Sounds good to me! I'm going to do a bit more research and I think I'll end up going for it, but you never know. Hopefully if I do I will be able to persuade people out of the common mind set that they need paper towels and darkness to thrive...

Thanks for helping Shane, as per usual I've learnt a lot in talking with you!

A pleasure as always, I'll see you around I'm sure !
 

JTB

New member
No, not exactly - so far calcium and cal+D3. Vitamins come in by heavy, varied gut loading of the insects she eats. She gets a variety of insects too, each of which I feed separate things - morio worms tend to eat carrot, mealworms grain, lettuce and other veg, locusts leefy greens and waxworms... Well, they get put in the fridge.

I might get some Arcadia Earth-Pro A to try out, though.
 

Zux

New member
No, not exactly - so far calcium and cal+D3. Vitamins come in by heavy, varied gut loading of the insects she eats. She gets a variety of insects too, each of which I feed separate things - morio worms tend to eat carrot, mealworms grain, lettuce and other veg, locusts leefy greens and waxworms... Well, they get put in the fridge.

I might get some Arcadia Earth-Pro A to try out, though.

Honestly, no matter how hard we try, we are never able to even come close to the dietary / nutritional variety they would receive in the wild and thus need in captivity by gut-loading alone. The sheer number of vitamins, minerals and trace elements they would encounter on a regular basis means supplementation is going to be a part of the hobby for as-long as it exists.

I would recommend you begin using some form of multivitamin as soon as possible, in order to round out the diet, particularly so if you have never had one up to now as there is almost certainly underlying and possibly numerous dietary deficiencies present if that is the case.

Reptiles hide illness very well as you know, likewise once a dietary deficiency begins to show outward symptoms it is likely at a critical point and much more difficult to address and reverse.

I use Earth-Pro A, as my product of choice these days but that relies on appropriate and well appointed UVB provision. In the absence of this I used Repashy Calcium Plus as a daily solution and prior still to that used Zoo Med Repti-Calcium +D3 & Reptivite without D3.
 

JTB

New member
Really? I'll get some with my order, in that case. I had never felt the need, as when I got her I never found anybody stressing such a point, although it has occurred to me that it would be beneficial. Supplementation is always going to be a wavy area for the time being at least, certainly when it's so hard to find something you can trust entering the hobby!

Anyway, I'll be making the order for things on Monday night, or Tuesday so it won't be long before I make the all natural change! Bar live plants for now though, but I see them on the horizon if things go to plan as I wish.

On the subject of supplements actually, I thought I'd share a theory. Bear in mind that I got my Leo as my first reptile and did not fully understand or see signs of stress or ill-health, before I say this. Ever since I got her, she's has a slightly misshapen lower jaw - from above, the left side juts out slightly (you can't see it from the front or side) and the front right part isn't completely covered by 'lip'. You only notice the latter after the opens her mouth to eat and the closes it again, for whatever reason. Could this be because she has had a case of MBD or similar before coming into my possession? It's never got any worse or better and seeing as it's a thing that has always been present I always wonder...

I'm hoping it might be possible that under UVB light it would fix properly, whatever's the matter, which is a reason I'm eager to go this route. Could this at all be the case and would light fix it, if anything would? It's never effected her, but I've always been very suspicious of how she was previously treated, because where I got her from got stock from wholesalers. Now I wouldn't buy anything of the sort, but I didn't know back then.
 

Zux

New member
Sounds good mate, if we are honest, supplements are going to be a wavy area for us all, always ! All we can do is inform ourselves as best we can and make our own decisions from there. As you read, I changed my way of doing things three times this year alone as I learned more and more. For me thats the key, always be open minded to evolving care.

Regarding the Jaw alignment issue, its almost impossible to say for sure. It could be a number of things from birth defects, to early calcium deficiencies to full on early stage MBD or one of the related illnesses. Regardless, however, I am sorry to report the chances of it 'recitfiying' itself through your care (which is no doubt excellent) are almost nill (though not impossible in the young). Like I hinted at earlier, once we witness a physical manifestation of a condition its almost always too late to reverse such.

With that said, the internal and long term health benefits the Gecko would enjoy from its new care regime will vastly improve its life.


Hopefully that was clear, if you need me to be more specific just let me know.
 

JTB

New member
Okay, I understand. Just a shame because I will never know if it hurts her and if it were to go then at least I'd have peace of mind. She's never seemed bothered though, so I doubt it's worth too much thought.

Any ways, I'll give an update (both here and YouTube) when I make the change. I think I'll be going bio from the start, too!
 

Zux

New member
Okay, I understand. Just a shame because I will never know if it hurts her and if it were to go then at least I'd have peace of mind. She's never seemed bothered though, so I doubt it's worth too much thought.

Any ways, I'll give an update (both here and YouTube) when I make the change. I think I'll be going bio from the start, too!

I would be very confident that such deformities almost never result in pain, particularly long after they have been present, I really wouldn't worry about that at all mate.

Awesome news too, looking forward to the updates !
 
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