Does my rescue gecko look underweight?

[yaoiphobic]

Hello! I'm new to this forum and leopard gecko keeping in general (though I've kept many other reptiles in the past) so please excuse me if this is a super noob question/in the wrong place etc. I'm just a little paranoid and I want her to be as healthy as possible!

I adopted a leopard gecko last week from a guy off of craigslist. Basically, he let his sons get her and another gecko and they didn't really know how to take care of them. She was on sand that they got off the beach (it even had an old cigar in it, ew) with no real hides and dead crickets and poop everywhere. She was burrowing in the sand and wedging herself underneath the coquina rocks when I picked her up and had no heat pad/lamp and dirty water. Luckily, they got the tank size right and gave me her 20 long with her.

I've got her set up on paper towels in the 20 with plenty of hides and a heat pad etc etc and have been feeding her crickets and wax worms (dusting every other cricket lightly with d3 calcium) and she does eat them and poop normally but I'm concerned because she still seems kind of skinny. She's in decent condition considering her past care and seems pretty active. She eats plenty of crickets/worms and divides her time exploring her cage, sleeping in her hides, and laying out on the warm side.

Does she look too skinny to you more experienced leo keepers?

Here's a few pics:







(This last one is the picture that her previous owner sent me from her old tank)

What can I do to help her gain a little weight? I have a scale but I haven't gotten around to weighing her yet. Someone on facebook who also keeps leos told me that she looks to be about a year old. About how much should she weigh? (her previous owner seemed to think she was around 3-4 years?? I think the other one that they had was that old, but shes way too small to be much older than a year)

Thank you in advance!!! Any tips/insight are appreciated!

 

[PoppyDear]

Hello!

Thank you for rescuing this poor thing! She actually looks pretty good, her tail could be more plump but that will come with feeding. I wouldn't feed too many wax worms, they can be addicting, and though she is a bit skinny, other food can help her gain weight in a healthier way. Instead try some mealworms (A healthier fatty insect) along with the crickets, a hornworm would be a good treat.

Speaking of feeding, can you inform us of the suppliments you use? You also mentioned you dusted every other cricket, are you doing that every feeding with only the calcium with D3? She also needs some suppliments without D3 (Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3 and Zoo Med's Reptivite without D3 are fantastic!) and I would even reccomend some pure precipitated calcium carbonate (NOW brand in health stores). Once we get a better understanding of the age we can advise a suppliment schedule. How far apart do you feed?

Do you have a thermostat with the UTH? I also wanted to know if you have a moist hide to place on the warm side?

Here's a temperature guide for all leopard geckos as measured with the probe of a digital thermometer (and controlled by a thermostat):
•88-92 F (31.1-33.3 C) ground temperature right underneath a leo's warm dry hide
•no greater than 82ish F (27.8ish C) air temperature - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
•no greater than 75 F (23.9 C) air temperature - 4 inches above ground on the cool end


As for appropriate weights, there really isn't one, they all vary. What is important is that the gecko has a plump tail, yours could do with a little more on that tail. Can you ask the previous owner how long he owned her? It will be difficult to find her age, size isn't always a good determining factor. Another thing, did you sex "her"? If she can be sexed she is six months+, this will help members here help you find appropriate suppliment schedules.

Sexing Leopard Geckos Leopard geckos become sexable at about 6 months old. Males can be distinguished from females by a distinct v-shaped row of pores and by bulges right under the vent.
•Click: Sexing Leopard Geckos

Good luck!

 

[yaoiphobic]

Hello!

Thank you for rescuing this poor thing! She actually looks pretty good, her tail could be more plump but that will come with feeding. I wouldn't feed too many wax worms, they can be addicting, and though she is a bit skinny, other food can help her gain weight in a healthier way. Instead try some mealworms (A healthier fatty insect) along with the crickets, a hornworm would be a good treat.

Speaking of feeding, can you inform us of the suppliments you use? You also mentioned you dusted every other cricket, are you doing that every feeding with only the calcium with D3? She also needs some suppliments without D3 and I would even reccomend some pure precipitated calcium carbonate. How far apart do you feed?

Do you have a thermostat with the UTH? I also wanted to know if you have a moist hide to place on the warm side?

As for appropriate weights, there really isn't one, they all vary. What is important is that the gecko has a plump tail, yours could do with a little more on that tail. Can you ask the previous owner how long he owned her? It will be difficult to find her age, size isn't always a good determining factor. Another thing, did you sex "her"? If she can be sexed she is six months+, this will help members here help you find appropriate suppliment schedules.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply!

She gets the wax worms as a treat! For the first 2-3 days it was all she got just because I didn't have a chance to go get some crickets, but now I'm just giving her 2 every few days.
I have yet to pick up a good multivitamin powder (my local pet store was out) and I need to get a calcium powder without D3 as well. If you have any recommendations for vitamin supplements do let me know! I'm seeing a lot of mixed opinions.

Right now, I've been feeding her 3-4 larger crickets every day and every third day she gets as many as she can eat in 15 minutes (6-7)

I do have moist hides. One on the warm side and one on the cool side (I wasn't sure which side it should be on so I just did both) and then she has two dry hides. One is in the middle of the cage and one on the cool end. She likes the dry hide in the middle the best.

I don't have a thermostat yet. My local pet stores don't carry them, so I have to order one. I've been monitoring the temps to make sure that they don't get crazy hot and elevated the tank so that heat can't build up underneath it and cause a fire/overheat my gecko.

I've sexed her to the best of my abilities; she doesn't have the pores or any other male characteristics so I'm pretty sure she is a girl.

 

[PoppyDear]

Hello again!

I edited my post above, I am sorry I didn't get it done sooner, I realized I missed a few things! I put my suppliment reccomendations there. I will say that I reccomend this thermostat;
•https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NZZG3...t=&hvlocphy=1026995&hvtargid=pla-320548817996

Please remove the moist hide from the cold side, that can result in resperatory issues. The one on the warm side is just fine! Sounds like she has a bunch of hides to choose from, she should be fine in that department.

As for feeding, if she can be sexed she is probably 6 months or so. I will add a little supplimenting schedule here. I think that she can be fed every other day as of now, I will also reccomend a schedule for a younger gecko just to be safe.

•Use Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3 at 1 feeding per week. Lightly dust it on half the crickets or dubia, not every insect at that feeding.
•Use Zoo Med ReptiVite multivitamins without D3 at 1 feeding per week. Lightly dust it on crickets or dubia. Maybe only lightly dust half the insects at that feeding.
•Use plain precipitated calcium carbonate at 1 feeding per week. Lightly dust it on crickets or dubia. Precipitated calcium carbonate is purer than oyster shell calcium. The NOW brand sold in health foods stores is ideal.

Weekly Schedule for Leos 12 months old & under
Modified for your Leo

Crickets or dubia >> Monday - Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3
Mealworms >> Wednesday
Crickets or dubia >> Thursday - Zoo Med ReptiVite multivitamins without D3
Mealworms >> Saturday - precipitated calcium carbonate without D3

Future weeks:
Continue on since all weeks are identical. . . . . .

If any members see an issue with this schedule I am very open to critique!

 

[Keeboard]

I'd feed her as many insects as she'll eat in fifteen minutes every feeding (preferably more, since she's underweight). I recommend dry Eco earth for a substrate (maybe when she's a little healthier), it'll let her dig

 

[yaoiphobic]

Hello again!

I edited my post above, I am sorry I didn't get it done sooner, I realized I missed a few things! I put my suppliment reccomendations there. I will say that I reccomend this thermostat;
•https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NZZG3...t=&hvlocphy=1026995&hvtargid=pla-320548817996

Please remove the moist hide from the cold side, that can result in resperatory issues. The one on the warm side is just fine! Sounds like she has a bunch of hides to choose from, she should be fine in that department.

As for feeding, if she can be sexed she is probably 6 months or so. I will add a little supplimenting schedule here. I think that she can be fed every other day as of now, I will also reccomend a schedule for a younger gecko just to be safe.

•Use Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3 at 1 feeding per week. Lightly dust it on half the crickets or dubia, not every insect at that feeding.
•Use Zoo Med ReptiVite multivitamins without D3 at 1 feeding per week. Lightly dust it on crickets or dubia. Maybe only lightly dust half the insects at that feeding.
•Use plain precipitated calcium carbonate at 1 feeding per week. Lightly dust it on crickets or dubia. Precipitated calcium carbonate is purer than oyster shell calcium. The NOW brand sold in health foods stores is ideal.

Weekly Schedule for Leos 12 months old & under
Modified for your Leo

Crickets or dubia >> Monday - Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3
Mealworms >> Wednesday
Crickets or dubia >> Thursday - Zoo Med ReptiVite multivitamins without D3
Mealworms >> Saturday - precipitated calcium carbonate without D3

Future weeks:
Continue on since all weeks are identical. . . . . .

If any members see an issue with this schedule I am very open to critique!

Oh wow thank you for the detailed reply!! You've answered a ton of questions. Luckily, she has no interest in the humid hides anyway so I don't think she ever even got in the cold one. I'll take it out as soon as I get home!

I have a similar feeding schedule planned for my older non-rescue leos so I'll start applying this to my rescue's feed as well! I thought because she was smaller and less healthy that she would need more supplements. Thanks for letting me know that this isn't the case BEFORE I had her taking all that calcium for a long period.
I drafted out a feeding schedule earlier as I have other animals to keep track of, so I'll make sure that it matches up to your schedule. I'm going to need to get a whiteboard of some kind to manage it all considering I have other animals with different feeding schedules and I don't want to get anything mixed up.

My only worry (and it's probably just me being ultra-paranoid) is that she could possibly eat too much? I fed her 6-7 larger crickets yesterday and for a gecko her size, that seemed like a lot. I've heard that they'll stop eating when they're not hungry and she would stop after a bit with the wax worms but she seems to want to eat a TON of crickets. I also know that when they're younger if they overeat they'll throw it up and then likely learn their lesson. Should I let her and just keep with the "as many as she can eat in 15 minutes" rule, or do I risk impaction? Basically, I need to know if there's a cut off point somewhere :shock:.

Again thank you so much for all your help! There's so much conflicting information out there so I've been a little confused in my research.

 

[yaoiphobic]

I'd feed her as many insects as she'll eat in fifteen minutes every feeding (preferably more, since she's underweight). I recommend dry Eco earth for a substrate (maybe when she's a little healthier), it'll let her dig

Oh man, I love eco earth. I used to keep skinks and it was my go to substrate for them and my salamander. I've been seeing a lot of conflicting info on eco earth for leo's though. The general consensus seems to be that it and any other sandy/dirt type substrate is bad for them as they can eat it and they can't pass it? I've also seen some people just use it in their moist hides but I plan on picking up some moss for that when I can find it.

I was planning on building out a natural viv for her and my others with flat rock pieces and excavator clay which really appealed to me because you can sort of sculpt with it and it still allows them to dig a bit. I like the idea of using the excavator clay for the entire deal and carving out bowls in it and filling those with eco earth to allow them something softer to burrow in. Thoughts? Right now, they're all on paper towels because I don't feel educated enough about substrate to choose one. (Also, I have to wait for payday in order to get the non-essential materials together.)

Thank you for the reply!

 

[Keeboard]

An excavator clay setup would be great! Just set it up so you can still use a UTH. Your Leo won't become impacted (by insects or substrate) as long as you care for her properly. Just make sure the crickets are no wider than the space between her eyes

 

[yaoiphobic]

Thanks! I think I'll start on that excavator clay setup for my bigger leos and leave my rescue on paper towels until she's a bit healthier, just to be safe.

 

[PoppyDear]

Hey, everything is sounding great!

I might need a white board soon as well, I am slowly ganing more animals and things are getting harder to get track of! Thanks for the idea! As a note, the way I modifed the schedule was adding another feeding day (Wednesday) to help her gain weight and an extra suppliment (Hence the pure calcium) as she probably lacked suppliments due to neglect from her previous owner. After a few weeks and her weight stabilizes, all you have to do is stop feeding Wednesday and don't dust anymore with the pure calcium, the other two suppliments can be used once a week and that will suffice. I hope that makes sense, I am not the best at explaining things.

As Keeboard said, they shouldn't get impacted but there are always exceptions to that rule. Let her eat everything she can in 15 minutes for a few weeks, she knows how much she needs. For my Leos, I let them eat however many bugs they wanted in 15 for a few feedings and then averaged it and fed them the average number of insects they usually eat. If they acted hungry I often feed a few more. Anyways, it is up to you, but for now as she gains weight, let her choose how much to eat, after she is at an optimal weight I would say to figure out "a set amount of insects" later.

Substrate is a controversial topic, as you have probably seen, haha! The only loose substrate I (this is just my opinion) am okay with is Eco Earth, but I would only use it if;
•Leo is in perfect condition
•Husbandry is perfect
•Suppliments are on point

Last week we had a member's Leo get impacted with Eco Earth, luckily she passed it. I believe it was due to a husbandry issue, it just shows how careful you have to be. I can link the thread if you would like! If you are going to use it, I would say to wait until she is tip top shape, then everything should be okay!

The clay setup would look beautiful, another safe substrate option you could use is slate or tile. I would agree with waiting until your girl is a little better before attempting it. Paper towels are probably best just to watch the poop. If you eventually make one, I would love to see it!

I am glad I could help, when I first got my Leos this is the place I went and now everyone is healthy and happy! It inspired me to answer questions to the best of my ability here, although I am not perfect! Thank you!

 

[yaoiphobic]

Hey, everything is sounding great!

I might need a white board soon as well, I am slowly ganing more animals and things are getting harder to get track of! Thanks for the idea! As a note, the way I modifed the schedule was adding another feeding day (Wednesday) to help her gain weight and an extra suppliment (Hence the pure calcium) as she probably lacked suppliments due to neglect from her previous owner. After a few weeks and her weight stabilizes, all you have to do is stop feeding Wednesday and don't dust anymore with the pure calcium, the other two suppliments can be used once a week and that will suffice. I hope that makes sense, I am not the best at explaining things.

As Keeboard said, they shouldn't get impacted but there are always exceptions to that rule. Let her eat everything she can in 15 minutes for a few weeks, she knows how much she needs. For my Leos, I let them eat however many bugs they wanted in 15 for a few feedings and then averaged it and fed them the average number of insects they usually eat. If they acted hungry I often feed a few more. Anyways, it is up to you, but for now as she gains weight, let her choose how much to eat, after she is at an optimal weight I would say to figure out "a set amount of insects" later.

Substrate is a controversial topic, as you have probably seen, haha! The only loose substrate I (this is just my opinion) am okay with is Eco Earth, but I would only use it if;
•Leo is in perfect condition
•Husbandry is perfect
•Suppliments are on point

Last week we had a member's Leo get impacted with Eco Earth, luckily she passed it. I believe it was due to a husbandry issue, it just shows how careful you have to be. I can link the thread if you would like! If you are going to use it, I would say to wait until she is tip top shape, then everything should be okay!

The clay setup would look beautiful, another safe substrate option you could use is slate or tile. I would agree with waiting until your girl is a little better before attempting it. Paper towels are probably best just to watch the poop. If you eventually make one, I would love to see it!

I am glad I could help, when I first got my Leos this is the place I went and now everyone is healthy and happy! It inspired me to answer questions to the best of my ability here, although I am not perfect! Thank you!

You're making complete sense, don't worry! You've helped out a ton and I appreciate it. I've mostly kept tropical reptiles in the past and I was surprised to see how different the husbandry is for leos (though there are lots of similarities too)

Oh, if you do have that link I would love to see it just so I can be prepared if it ever does happen. The rescue (her name's Ginseng btw) is def going to stay on paper towels for a bit until she's around the size of my other leos. I let her eat as many crickets as she could yesterday (she's a terrible hunter so I've been feeding her with tongs) and she seems pretty happy so as soon as I get the rest of the supplements I need (and maybe some treat foods too) I'm pretty confident that she'll be on the right track.

I think when payday rolls around week I'll start on that clay setup for my other girls since they're both in good shape and their tank is driving me crazy with how barren/ugly it is. I drew out a plan for it after Keeboard brought up the eco earth idea and now I'm excited to start it. I'm going to shoot for it to be bioactive so that'll be a bit of a learning curve, but I've been looking into bioactive vivs for a few months now anyway and I think I have a basic idea of where to start. I'll def post my progress! If you'd like, I can tag you in it

 

[PoppyDear]

Yay, I am glad to help! I only keep Leos and Cresties at the moment, I am looking for some more New Caledonian geckos as well as more advanced species. What tropical species did you keep?

Ginseng is an adorable name, she should be healthy in no time! A tip for crickets, pop them in the fridge for a few minutes and they will slow down. Hopefully that will help her catch them and minimize the need for tong feeding.

Here is the link for that thread;
•http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...ses-/83271-urgent-leo-impacted-eco-earth.html

Yes, I would love to see the bioactive setup! Please do tag me! I will see if I can find some good bioactive resources for you, if you would like that. I plan on making a bioactive tank for my crested after I move and purchase a new tank!

Hope she recovers well!

 

[yaoiphobic]

I didn't keep geckos, these leos are my first. I would love to get a crested or a gargoyle but I don't have any room:lol:. I had all kinds of skinks growing up (Broad headed, blue tails, five lined, coal skinks etc) as well as a few tortoises that we would take in after bad encounters with dogs. I also have two yellow-bellied sliders that are too big for an indoor tank, so they're being re-homed to a friend with a private pond.

I won't make you track down bioactive resources haha, I'm currently filling a notebook with all the details/supplies I'll need for the leo tank and another tropical 75g that I plan on making into a bioactive paludarium one of these days. Thank you though!

I would stick the crickets in the freezer but I enjoy hand feeding her too much tbh, I feed her when I feed my axolotl and since I'm already hand feeding him it's not too much trouble, though I'll keep that in mind for the future if I ever do get tired of making her run around after crickets in tongs.

When I get the supplies I'll start a thread on the leo tank build and tag you in it!

 

[Zux]

If you ever need help with setting up the Bio-Active enclosures for either species, feel free to tag me into a question or pm me anytime.

It has become an obsession of mine over the last couple of years, so I have figured our pretty well what works and what doesn't, in particular with arid species.

 

[PoppyDear]

Ah!

I plan on keeping a skink, most likely a blue tongue. How was living with skinks? I haven't owned anything else but geckos, although I raised tadpoles and insects as a kid I was big into animals at a young age, still am as a teen!

Ah, good luck on your builds, the 75g sounds like quite a chore, but it would look great!

I reccomened freezing the crickets more for the gecko's sake. They excercise and are stimulated more. Of course tong feeding can be nice, I personally find it bonding, but I know my Leos usually benefit more from having to hunt. Some Leos will only be tong fed (Enigma Syndrome geckos), it is just preference.

Thank you very much!

Edit: Zux is a great resource, haha!

 

[yaoiphobic]

Skinks are great! I'd love to own a blue tongue one day. They're pretty interesting to watch when they're not buried in their substrate. My broad headed skin was one of the best hunters I've had and would take out his crickets terminator style. The types I kept spent most of their time burrowing tbh, I didn't handle them much and they weren't super high maintenance, though that was more because they like warm moist climates and I live in FL so I already had that part done. Mine lived in a spare bathroom that nobody used and we were able to keep it climate controlled. If you live somewhere cold it'll be a little harder :lol:

The 75 was a chore to scape when it was just a simple, minimal fish aquarium so this paludarium deal is going to be an endeavor lmao. I still need to decide what I want to live in there before I even think about starting it tbh (I'm leaning towards dart frogs but who knows)

I find it bonding as well! I fed her a few by tong last night and then let her hunt down the rest. I'm def going to let her hunt her own food down more often as an enrichment thing though. She's about to shed, so she wasn't super into it last night. On the bright side, I saw her finally use her moist hide which makes me feel better about her upcoming shed.

I hope you don't mind that I added you! I wanted to remember who to tag when I start the clay/eco earth setup.

 

[yaoiphobic]

Oooh thank you! I'll def keep you in mind if I have any questions.

I'm quickly becoming obsessed too lmao. Building a mini ecosystem is super interesting to me and combines a lot of things I'm into. Plus, they look nice.

 

[PoppyDear]

I see, I am going to live in a colder climate soon (Rural NY), although with the help of air conditioning and UTHs, CHEs, etc. I hope I will be okay! I want one large animal, among my other little guys, I've narrowed it down to a Blue Tongue, Beardie or a Leachie.

A nice aspect of the tank is that you have a ton of flexibility when it comes to what you want to inhabite it. I think dart frogs are definately beautiful, small and interesting. I would probably settle on a Uromastyx with such a large tank! Good luck on your decision and the build, I can't imagine how long it will take! Pretty soon I might be coming to you for advice bioactive builds, ha!

I am also glad to hear she is eating and shedding, I bet comparission pictures are going to look great in a few weeks! I don't mind you adding me, the more friends the better! :biggrin: I have some basic knowledge on naturalistic/bioactive tanks but it is different because I haven't yet attempted them, hopefully I can in the coming weeks!

 

[yaoiphobic]

I love bigger lizards but I feel like putting a bunch of small darts in a 75 would be super fun. Plus, since it's a paludarium I would be worried about an Uromastyx in there as it might drown in the water! I don't know though, I might even do a few day geckos. I want it to be like an ecosystem so I'm looking into species that can be co-habbed with other species. I'll have to research that a ton more though, I have minimal experience with co-habbing so I have no idea if it's realistic to even consider it in my setup.

Still, I'm going to focus on getting my leos in order before I even begin to think about the 75g (I also have to get my roommate on board with yet ANOTHER tank setup in the house lmao). Until then I'll just be researching. If I find anything useful I'll let you know!

 

[PoppyDear]

I have and am cohabitating Leos, not too sure about other species especially with a paludarium. But I am sure with a ton of research that is something you could do in the future. I realized I worded my response badly, I meant a Uromastyx in a 75g, just the tank for size.

Anyways, thank you and best of luck!