Gout

[icatsang]

Hi, I need advice as the vet told me my gecko has gout.

She is 4.6 years old Asper girl. She has been well on last summer and suddenly has health issue when autumn just starts.

Illness symption:
First day - half face with one eye is swollen.
Third day - vet visit - flushed out abcesses from dry eye, less swollen for that day, with in vitanmin injection A, D & E. was told to use saline (0.9% nacl) to do eye wash daily and apply a drop of antibotic three times a day.
Forth day - swollen face is back
Sixth day - back to see the vet. the test result is gout. Tried to flush her eyes with saline and no abscesses coming out.
I was told there is no treatment. Gout is from high protein diet which she only loves crickets and refused other insects.
Her existing diet is 7 medium crickets dusted with Rapashy calcium plus hyd rotating with Rapashy calcium hyd + zoo med vitamins daily in summer.

I was told i have to improve her diet. As our supplier is no longer can import Rapashy product anymore therefore i need to find out what i have to do and how i can help her to recover.
The vet told me that if she keeps losing weight then, they will put her to sleep . May I know what should i do to help my gecko to recover. I really love my gecko, I am thinking whether I should buy the dry meal worm and canned insects, blend them together as paste for force feeding.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Her existing diet is 7 medium crickets dusted with Rapashy calcium plus hyd rotating with Rapashy calcium hyd + zoo med vitamins daily in summer.

Hi Ica ~

Do you have Zoo Med's Reptivite multivitamins with D3? Dusting your asper's crickets daily with that seems very excessive! Reptivite contains vitamin A acetate (retinol). Too much retinol is BAD news! One of my vets recommended ONLY dusting with Reptivite multivitamins with D3 at 1 feeding per week.

Crickets really aren't high in protein at all. Some roaches like Blaptica dubia are higher in protein. What you feed your insects could create a high protein gut level in the insects. When one feeds cat food, dog food, or fish flakes to the insects, that passes along high protein to your geckos.

(click to enlarge)​

Here's the only info I have on gout.

For 89 click: Reptile Gout......Kenneth Lopez, DVM & others​

1. Is there some reason you chose Repashy's calcium plus hyd? I'm really only familiar with Repashy's Calcium Plus all-in-one multivitamins.
2. Before the symptoms showed up, did you keep this N. asper well hydrated?
3. Is there some reason you have a new vet?
4. Can you buy Zoo Med's Natural ADULT Bearded Dragon Food where you live? I grind it up and feed it to my crickets all the time. They clean their plates!
   
   ​

 

[icatsang]

I use Repashy’s calcium plus Hyd in summer because she was gravided.
I keep my Asper in the exo terra terrarium which mesh top. The humidity level is not high therefore, I spray water to my gecko face every night. Last few days it is a bit cold, she stayed inside the cave and I sprayed the water on the rocks. (But she still ate a cricket).
I see the new vet because my vet is currently on 3 weeks annual leave. I don’t have many choices but the new vet is from the same animal hospital and They both work part time.
I cannot find the zoo med dragon food in Australia. I feel horrible that most of the famous brands reptile products are not available in Australia.

Today i just using a syringe to drop the water in front of her. I did not force her to drink the water but she drank a lot. After that, she vomited a lot of sticky mouth water out.
Will i lose her very soon?

I keep doing research to see how i can make her feel better. I have checked all my record, she has not lost weight yet. Do i still have a hope for her recovery?

 

[Sg612]

Hi,

Your vet should have discussed a plan. In particular, hydration and pain management. Don’t hesitate to show her this article.
https://veterinarypartner.vin.com/default.aspx?pid=19239&catId=102919&id=8049747

Good luck

 

[icatsang]

For varieties of food, I am thinking to buy the mixed insects powder to make a paste so that I can force feed her. If dry insects powder is not available, then I use canned insects to make a paste for her. What do u think?

 

[icatsang]

Hi Elizabeth, can I use this one Zoo Med Bearded Dragon Food Juvenile to feed the cricket?

 

[icatsang]

Hi Ica ~

Do you have Zoo Med's Reptivite multivitamins with D3? Dusting your asper's crickets daily with that seems very excessive! Reptivite contains vitamin A acetate (retinol). Too much retinol is BAD news! One of my vets recommended ONLY dusting with Reptivite multivitamins with D3 at 1 feeding per week.

Crickets really aren't high in protein at all. Some roaches like Blaptica dubia are higher in protein. What you feed your insects could create a high protein gut level in the insects. When one feeds cat food, dog food, or fish flakes to the insects, that passes along high protein to your geckos.

View attachment 47426
(click to enlarge)​

Here's the only info I have on gout.

For 89 click: Reptile Gout......Kenneth Lopez, DVM & others​

1. Is there some reason you chose Repashy's calcium plus hyd? I'm really only familiar with Repashy's Calcium Plus all-in-one multivitamins.
2. Before the symptoms showed up, did you keep this N. asper well hydrated?
3. Is there some reason you have a new vet?
4. Can you buy Zoo Med's Natural ADULT Bearded Dragon Food where you live? I grind it up and feed it to my crickets all the time. They clean their plates!
   
   View attachment 47427​

Hi Elizabeth, can I use this one- Zoo Med Bearded Dragon Food Juvenile to feed the cricket?

 

[icatsang]

Hi Elizabeth, can I use this one Zoo Med Bearded Dragon Food Juvenile to feed the cricket? I am currently feeding the crickets with milk powder, bee pollen , spirulina, apple, carrot , cucumber and any veggie available on that day. Should i remove milk powder and replace soybean meal?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

For varieties of food, I am thinking to buy the mixed insects powder to make a paste so that I can force feed her. If dry insects powder is not available, then I use canned insects to make a paste for her. What do u think?

Try both methods.

Is that a Repashy product? Do you mean Repashy's Grub Pie? If so be sure to mix it with water.

Also try making a paste with canned insects.

 

[icatsang]

Try both methods.

Is that a Repashy product? Do you mean Repashy's Grub Pie? If so be sure to mix it with water.

Also try making a paste with canned insects.

Yes, i have Repashy’s Grub Pie which with crude Protein min. 43%. Will it be too high to treat gout? I am confused.

I am thinking to feed her 3 times a week, the first feed with be crickets dusted with calcium +D3, (Monday), and second feed (Wednesday) with homemade paste dusted with calcium +d3 +probiotic(mixed with dry mealworm powder + canned silkworm and canned grasshoppers ), and the third feed on Friday will be Grub Pie (mainly black solider fly larvae meal with 43% protein and i give her 3 days to digest). Is that ok?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi Elizabeth, can I use this one Zoo Med Bearded Dragon Food Juvenile to feed the cricket? I am currently feeding the crickets with milk powder, bee pollen , spirulina, apple, carrot , cucumber and any veggie available on that day. Should i remove milk powder and replace soybean meal?

Zoo Med's Natural JUVENILE Bearded Dragon Food would be OK. Make sure it's that specific one! Since where ever you'd be getting this from stocks the JUVENILE product, can they special order the ADULT product?

Milk powder usually contains vitamin A palmitate. That's GOOD! Palmitate is somewhat like vitamin A acetate (retinol). DON'T remove the milk powder.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I am confused.

I am thinking to feed her 3 times a week, the first feed with be crickets dusted with calcium +D3, (Monday), and second feed (Wednesday) with homemade paste dusted with calcium +d3 +probiotic(mixed with dry mealworm powder + canned silkworm and canned grasshoppers ), and the third feed on Friday will be Grub Pie (mainly black solider fly larvae meal with 43% protein and i give her 3 days to digest). Is that ok?

​

Grub Pie = 40% dry weight protein. When you mix Grub Pie with 2-3 parts water the protein levels = 1/3 to 1/4 of 40%. Grub Pie also contains Vitamin D Supplement & Vitamin A Supplement. Live silkworms contain Vitamin A (retinol).

1 part Grub Pie + 2 parts water = 3 parts total
1 part Grub Pie + 3 parts water = 4 parts total​

ONLY add D3 calcium to 1 feeding per week! If she did not eat on Monday, add D3 calcium to Wednesday's meal.

:scratchhead: I don't see why you need to use Repashy's Super HyD (high D3) at all. Vitamin D3 is fat soluble. One dose sticks around in a gecko's body for about one week. Vitamin D3 will "work on" plain calcium carbonate all week long. I would have added more frequent plain calcium when your N. asper had been gravid. I don't see any reason to increase the frequency of D3. Reptivite with D3 contains enough D3 when used @ 1 feeding per week.​

Depending upon the type of gout, there is a medication that extends a gecko's life a little. This thread may contain useful information.

For 133 click: Leo Merlin's struggles with gout......GU's Samurai Drifter -- December 2016​

 

[icatsang]

Zoo Med's Natural JUVENILE Bearded Dragon Food would be OK. Make sure it's that specific one! Since where ever you'd be getting this from stocks the JUVENILE product, can they special order the ADULT product?

Milk powder usually contains vitamin A palmitate. That's GOOD! Palmitate is somewhat like vitamin A acetate (retinol). DON'T remove the milk powder.

Thanks. I am going to call the shop and hope i can do the special order. I just find out vitamin C and cherry can help to absorb the uric acid. Is that ok to give orange to crickets for gut loading?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thanks. I am going to call the shop and hope i can do the special order. I just find out vitamin C and cherry can help to absorb the uric acid. Is that ok to give orange to crickets for gut loading?

You're welcome!

"Feeding oranges to crickets" is fine!

Here's a chart to help you out.
"A commercial gut loading food like Bug Burger or Superload (both by Repashy), Cricket Crack, Dinofuel, etc. is going to make your life easier AND provide a nutritious diet to your crickets at the same time. Avoid Fluker's gutloads, as they are super feeble in their formulas."

"If you opt for making your own gutload at home, here is a list of great ingredients to use:
Best: mustard greens, turnip greens, dandelion flowers & leaves, collard greens, escarole lettuce, papaya, watercress, and alfalfa.
Good: sweet potato, carrots, oranges, mango, butternut squash, kale, apples, beet greens, blackberries, bok choy, and green beans.
Dry food: bee pollen, organic non-salted sunflower seeds, spirulina, dried seaweed, flax seed, and organic non-salted almonds.
Avoid as much as possible: potatoes, cabbage, iceberg lettuce, romaine lettuce, spinach, broccoli, tomatoes, corn, grains, beans, oats, bread, cereal, meat, eggs, dog food, cat food, fish food, canned or dead insects, vertebrates."

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Here's the continuation of Leo Merlin's struggles with gout.

For 134 click: Leo Merlin's struggles with gout (continued): Vitamin D3 Overdosage in an Actual Leopard Gecko!......Samurai Drifter -- 2017 threads​

 

[icatsang]

Just wondering whether warm bath can help to remove the uric acid from body through urate? Yesterday I gave my gecko a warm bath (I put her in 30c warm water for 1 mintue and I massaged her belly for 10 second in the warm water). This morning, I found her loose stool with solid urate. Because of this, she lost 2g. Wondering is that good for her? If yes, how often i can give her a warm bath?