Feedback on Tank size and layout

[jjainseattle]

Queso, my 3 or so year old Leopard Gecko

has been climbing the glass a little more than I am used to lately. Was wondering if my tank is too small? Too boring? Dont worry about it...

Here is a photo of his tank



Tank dimensions are 30 (wide) * 12 (Deep) * 17 (Tall)

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi ~

Have you checked Queso's temp settings recently -- warm end ground and cool end ground with the probe of a digital thermometer? How are you heating his enclosure? Have you a thermostat to control the heat?

Please tell me more about each overhead light.

Can you add a third hide? Are you missing the warm humid hide? Place the humid hide on top of the heat mat just like the warm dry hide. Here's an example.

(click to enlarge)​

Here are the recommended temps for a leo:

Temperatures - A temperature gradient from warm to cool maintains your leo's health. Here's a temperature guide for all leopard geckos as measured with the probe of a digital thermometer or a temp gun (and controlled by a thermostat set at 91*F/32.8*C).

Place the thermostat's probe and a digital thermometer's probe together right on top of the substrate underneath the warm dry hide. If you use a UTH + a CHE you'll need 2 separate thermostats, because ground and air temperatures are substantially different.

• Warm dry hide ground temperature: 88-92 F (31.1-33.3 C) inside a leo's warm dry hide.
• Warm humid/moist hide: Also place the humid hide 100% on top of the heat mat. Keep temperatures similar to the warm dry hide.
• Cool dry hide ground temperature: 70ish-75 F (21.1-23.9 C) Usually the cool end ground temperature matches the room temperature where the enclosure sits.
• no greater than 82ish F (27.8ish C) air temperature - 4 inches (10 cm) above ground on the warm end
• no greater than 75 F (23.9 C) air temperature - 4 inches (10 cm) above ground on the cool end

Leave the heat mat/UTH on 24/7. If you wish, during the night turn off overhead lighting/heating (~12 hours on and ~12 hours off) unless ambient room temperatures drop lower than 67ish*F (19.4*C).

 

[jjainseattle]

Thanks for your reply.

The two lights above the tank - the right side is a heat lamp and the left is a UV Light.

I also have a mat heater on the underside of the right as well. This is controlled by a stat.

The humid hide is the cave on the left side of the photo - The humid hide is not on the mat and is not under the heat lamp.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thanks for your reply.

The two lights above the tank - the right side is a heat lamp and the left is a UV Light.

I also have a mat heater on the underside of the right as well. This is controlled by a stat.

The humid hide is the cave on the left side of the photo - The humid hide is not on the mat and is not under the heat lamp.

You're welcome. Please add a cool hide at the far left, so that your leo has a 3rd sheltered option. I recommend placing the humid hide close to the warm end.

What's the temp now inside the humid hide? It's important that it be similar in temp to the warm dry hide.

What strength is your UVB coil bulb? Brand? There are many. It's important that your leo receives appropriate Ferguson Zone rays.

How are you managing Queso's supplements? Please list brand, type, and frequency.

 

[jjainseattle]

You're welcome. Please add a cool hide, so that your leo has a 3rd sheltered option.

What's the temp inside the humid hide? It's important that it be similar in temp to the warm dry hide.

What strength is your UVB coil bulb? Brand? There are many. It's important that your leo receives appropriate Ferguson Zone rays.

How are you managing supplements? Please list brand, type, and frequency.

Temp in Humid hide is 75
Temp on warm side is 86
UV Bulb is Exoterra UVB100 - PT2187
His diet is Crickets with occasional meal worms. Crickets are fed T-Rex Calcium Plus and Flukers Cricket quencher - Calcium Fortified

 

[jjainseattle]

This is the T-rex Product


Both the Flukers Cricket Quencher and the T-Rex Calcium Plus for the crickets are the sources of calcium

If the Flukers and the T-rex are not an appropriate food for the crickets, that will provide the nourishment and nutrients that Queso needs, what should i be feeding the crickets?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Temp in Humid hide is 75
Temp on warm side is 86
UV Bulb is Exoterra UVB100 - PT2187

His diet is Crickets with occasional meal worms. Crickets are fed T-Rex Calcium Plus and Flukers Cricket quencher - Calcium Fortified

This is the T-rex Product
View attachment 48977

Both the Flukers Cricket Quencher and the T-Rex Calcium Plus for the crickets are the sources of calcium

If the Flukers and the T-rex are not an appropriate food for the crickets, that will provide the nourishment and nutrients that Queso needs, what should i be feeding the crickets?

What are the approximate dimensions of your heat mat? Your warm side temp is a bit cool. Your humid hide needs to be warmer. A cool humid hide can cause respiratory illnesses like pneumonia.

Zoo Med compact fluorescents and Arcadia bulbs are rated much more highly than Exo Terra bulbs.

Flukers' Cricket Quencher and T-Rex would only be considered "supplements". Our feeders need a good dry diet too.

What are the directions on your T-Rex Calcium Plus "Food" for Crickets? What is the guaranteed analysis on your T-Rex bottle? Please link it. I think that T-Rex product is only for "formal" gutloading 24-48 hours prior to feeders being fed to Queso. I feed a good diet 24/7 to my crickets and dubia. Then I dust with supplements 1-3x per week depending upon the age and species of gecko.

Crickets and mealworms need a 24/7 basic diet. I feed my crickets and dubia finely ground Zoo Med's Natural ADULT Bearded Dragon Food. This also works:

Already ground dry diet from "Professional Reptiles" for Queso's insect and worm food as well as for Queso's mealworm/superworm bedding.

• Click: 1 lb Pro Gutload - Professional Reptiles
• Click: Food & Water :: Insect Food

 

[jjainseattle]

What are the approximate dimensions of your heat mat? Your warm side temp is a bit cool. Your humid hide needs to be warmer. A cool humid hide can cause respiratory illnesses like pneumonia.

Zoo Med compact fluorescents and Arcadia bulbs are rated much more highly than Exo Terra bulbs.

I will replace this bulb with one of the Zoo Med bulbs at the six month change out!

Flukers' Cricket Quencher and T-Rex would only be considered "supplements". Our feeders need a good diet too.

Got it. Thanks!

What are the directions on your T-Rex Calcium Plus "Food" for Crickets? What is the guaranteed analysis on your T-Rex bottle? Please link it. I think that T-Rex product is only for "formal" gutloading 24-48 hours prior to feeders being fed to Queso. I feed a good diet 24/7 to my crickets and dubia. Then I dust with supplements 1-3x per week depending upon the age of the gecko.

Photos of the bottle here






Crickets and mealworms need a 24/7 basic diet. I feed my crickets and dubia finely ground Zoo Med's Natural ADULT Bearded Dragon Food. This will also work:

Already ground dry diet from "Professional Reptiles" for Queso's insect and worm food as well as for Queso's mealworm/superworm bedding.

• Click: 1 lb Pro Gutload - Professional Reptiles
• Click: Food & Water :: Insect Food

I did a search for the Adult Bearded Dragon food and found it on amazon - It however looks like it is pellets, not finley ground. Do you have a link to what you use? - This is what I fou

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-20-Ounce-Natural-Bearded/dp/B0002DIY94

Maybe I am better off going with the pro gutload from Professional reptiles...To be clear, either of these two would be in place of the t-rex that I am currently feeding the crickets...Correct?

I also found this on amazon - any thoughts on using this as my crickets 24/7 food? - https://smile.amazon.com/Flukers-High-Calcium-Cricket-11-5-Ounce/dp/B002DWTJBO/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=cricket+quencher&qid=1591656205&sr=8-6

Thanks for all of your help!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

1. I did a search for the Adult Bearded Dragon food and found it on amazon - It however looks like it is pellets, not finley ground. Do you have a link to what you use? - This is what I fou

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-20-Ounce-Natural-Bearded/dp/B0002DIY94

/\ /\ That's the exact beardie food I use. Those pellets are too tough for crickets to eat! I grind those pellets in a coffee grinder. Now I have a professional Krups model that grinds 8 ounces of beardie food at once. :lol: ​

2. Maybe I am better off going with the pro gutload from Professional reptiles...To be clear, either of these two would be in place of the t-rex that I am currently feeding the crickets...Correct?

Your best bet is to go with Pro Guload dry insect/worm diet from Professional Reptiles. Use it instead of the bedding your mealworms are shipped in. Pro Gutload does NOT replace supplements. Pro Gutload is just an all-around good dry diet. Generally, supplements are only supplements. Supplements generally aren't mixed with an appropriate amount of protein, etc. A good protein level for insects/worms/geckos = 16% along with vitamin A acetate (retinol), and so on.​

3. I also found this on amazon - any thoughts on using this as my crickets 24/7 food? - https://smile.amazon.com/Flukers-High-Calcium-Cricket-11-5-Ounce/dp/B002DWTJBO/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=cricket+quencher&qid=1591656205&sr=8-6

Yes, don't use Fluker's High Calcium Cricket Food as your insects dry diet. Mark Finke, PhD, did research which indicated that Fluker's HCCFood is not "high calcium" at all.

In fact, some products (and I think this includes T-Rex Calcium Plus Food for Crickets) contain exceptionally high cricket levels. That's why they're designated GUTLOAD (only) products.​

4. 3 year old Queso probably needs separate supplements -- separate from the basic feeder diet. Repashy's Calcium Plus + a plain calcium carcbonate or Zoo Med's supplements are the supplements I recommend. There are specific schedules on Geckos Unlimited I can link later.

Thanks for all of your help! You're welcome.

*** 5. Please share a minute long video of Queso walking around on a solid surface.

*** 6. I'm wondering how much heat your heat mat is giving off by itself. That's why it will be helpful to know it's dimensions.

7. I strongly encourage you to join Facebook's Reptile Lighting group too for enclosure-specifc UVB advice. Dr. Fran Baines (one admin) is a jewel. I don't know how she does it time after time after time! Please let me know what she says about your specific enclosure, so I can share her advice on GU.

I don't know which UVB source your 30 x 12 x 17 inch high enclosure needs to reach a Ferguson Zone rating between 0.5 - 1.0 for shade dwelling geckos like a leo. She will give you the correct information.

For a different species of geckos I use Zoo Med UVB Reptisun tubes. Those tubes require replacing annually.

8. Thanks for both images from T-Rex. I'll read them later.

9. After you quote my reply, just remove the QUOTE word at the beginning and end of that quote. That removes the box.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Leo Care Sheet link 148 by Olimpia (Aug 2013) -- partial quote

"A commercial gut loading food like Bug Burger or Superload (both by Repashy), Cricket Crack, Dinofuel, etc. is going to make your life easier AND provide a nutritious diet to your crickets at the same time. Avoid Fluker's gutloads, as they are super feeble in their formulas."

"If you opt for making your own gutload at home, here's a list of great ingredients to use:
Best: mustard greens, turnip greens, dandelion flowers & leaves, collard greens, escarole lettuce, papaya, watercress, and alfalfa.
Good: sweet potato, carrots, oranges, mango, butternut squash, kale, apples, beet greens, blackberries, bok choy, and green beans.
Dry food: bee pollen, organic non-salted sunflower seeds, spirulina, dried seaweed, flax seed, and organic non-salted almonds.
Avoid as much as possible: potatoes, cabbage, iceberg lettuce, romaine lettuce, spinach, broccoli, tomatoes, corn, grains, beans, oats, bread, cereal, meat, eggs, dog food, cat food, fish food, canned or dead insects, vertebrates."

 

[jjainseattle]

Alright....Thanks for the great Info!!!

1. I ordered a one pound bag of the Pro Gutload from Professional reptiles - I chose this over the zoo med based on the calcium content...

2. I'll discontinue using the T-Rex food for my Crickets as soon as the pro gutload arrives.

3. Will continue to use the Flukers Cricket Quencher as the water supply for the crickets

4. Crickets will now have a 24/7diet of the Pro Gutload and the Cricket Quencher in the Cricket Keeper

5. I added an additional hide to the cool side of the of Queso's Tank - Log circled in red in this photo



6. The heat mat is a Zoo med Reptiles Them UTH RH-4 it is 6" x 8" and is in the right corner of the tank, which again is 30" x 12" x 17"

7. I've moved the Humid hide closer to the heat mat, which also has it partially under the heat lamp - The temp in the hide is 77.9 degrees - Given the size of the heat mat and the fact that I have his warm hide sitting on top of the heat mat it is hard to get the temp in the humid hide up any further.

8. The substrate in his humid hide is coconut soil bedding - It comes in a "puck shape" and you mix with water - Photo here -



9. The warm hide, which sits on top of the heat mat ranges from 88 - 96 depending on what area is being measured. He does not spend a great deal of time in the warm hide and prefers an area of the tank under his ramp that is about 86 degrees.

10. The temp on his hammock, where he sometimes sleeps is 91 degrees

11. The temp on top of his ramp, where he also sleeps is 86 Degrees

12. Queso gets an annual exam at his vet -https://birdandexotic.com Both a physical exam as well as a "poop sample analysis"

I think the only question I have are now

1. Is the tank the correct size

2. Cricket supplements - Any suggestions around what I might add as supplements?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Alright....Thanks for the great Info!!!

1. I ordered a one pound bag of the Pro Gutload from Professional reptiles - I chose this over the zoo med based on the calcium content...

2. I'll discontinue using the T-Rex food for my Crickets as soon as the pro gutload arrives.

3. Will continue to use the Flukers Cricket Quencher as the water supply for the crickets

4. Crickets will now have a 24/7diet of the Pro Gutload and the Cricket Quencher in the Cricket Keeper

5. I added an additional hide to the cool side of the of Queso's Tank - Log circled in red in this photo

View attachment 48980

6. The heat mat is a Zoo med Reptiles Them UTH RH-4 it is 6" x 8" and is in the right corner of the tank, which again is 30" x 12" x 17"

7. I've moved the Humid hide closer to the heat mat, which also has it partially under the heat lamp - The temp in the hide is 77.9 degrees - Given the size of the heat mat and the fact that I have his warm hide sitting on top of the heat mat it is hard to get the temp in the humid hide up any further.

8. The substrate in his humid hide is coconut soil bedding - It comes in a "puck shape" and you mix with water - Photo here -

View attachment 48981

9. The warm hide, which sits on top of the heat mat ranges from 88 - 96 depending on what area is being measured. He does not spend a great deal of time in the warm hide and prefers an area of the tank under his ramp that is about 86 degrees.

10. The temp on his hammock, where he sometimes sleeps is 91 degrees

11. The temp on top of his ramp, where he also sleeps is 86 Degrees

12. Queso gets an annual exam at his vet -https://birdandexotic.com Both a physical exam as well as a "poop sample analysis"

I think the only question I have are now

1. Is the tank the correct size

2. Cricket supplements - Any suggestions around what I might add as supplements?

You're welcome. I'm quite sorry that it's taken me way too long to reply.

1. Is the tank the correct size

A 20 long enclosure: 30 x 12 x 12 would be much easier to heat. If you wish to go larger, I suggest an Exo Terra 36 x 18 x 12 inches high.​

2. Cricket supplements - Any suggestions around what I might add as supplements?

UVB Weekly Schedule 156 for leopard geckos 18 months old +​

(with UVB)​

Early stage metabolic bone disease (MBD) symptoms include uneven (lopsided) gait, walking on one or both "elbows", bowed limbs, belly dragging, and an underbite.

The Reptile Supply Company based in Lodi, California stocks Zoo Med's ReptiVite multivitamins withOUT D3.

Leopard geckos usually reach maximum size at about 18 months old.

Feed lightly dusted prey 2x per week.

• Monday > > crickets or dubia lightly dusted with Zoo Med's ReptiVite multivitamins withOUT D3
• Thursday > > crickets or dubia lightly dusted with pure precipitated calcium carbonate withOUT D3 (Zoo Med's Repti Calcium or NOW human brand calcium)
• Saturday > > Optional: mealworms, superworms, or black soldier fly larvae (Phoenix worms) > > no dusting

***** When your leopard gecko is taking advantage of appropriate UVB rays, Dr. Fran Baines (Reptile Lighting group's lighting guru) strongly recommends a backup dose of powdered D3 @ 1-2 feedings per month! Just substitute 1 D3 calcium dusting for 1 plain calcium dusting during those 1-2 weeks only. *****

Had I known from the beginning that Queso gets an annual check-up including a fecal at Seattle's Bird and Exotic Clinic, my advice would have been different. Many leos don't receive annual physicals. If Queso showed problems, I'm pretty certain that clinic would have mentioned it.

I highly recommend a heat mat upgrade. A 6 x 8 inch mat is just too small. I still recommend an 11 x 17 inch Ultratherm. A bare minimum heat mat coverage = 1/3 the enclosure's base. There must be some reason why your stat lets the heat mat's temps exceed 92*F.