Another sad day for the Hobby
- Thread starter jpstodwftexas
- Start date
Riverside Reptiles
Administrator (HMFIC)
I'm not going to chime in on the "dangerous animals" aspect of this because it's a huge can of worms and I can see both sides of it. However, as far as the dogs go, if the police had a warrant, then it was completely legal for them to kick the door in. And, in the US, police are trained to shoot any dog that is attacking them. In Maryland a year or two ago, police kicked in the door of a Mayor of the town. His dogs (a black lab and a golden retriever I believe) attacked, and they were shot. It's just police policy. It might be sad. It might suck. But it is what it is. In the minds of the police, if it comes down to being attacked by a dog, or shooting it, they're going to shoot it.
Riverside Reptiles
Administrator (HMFIC)
Not reptiles in general, but I'm sure that certain reptiles are illegal in Milwaukee. Also, you have to keep in mind that many local laws (city, town, county) can forbid keeping of certain animals. In the county that I'm in, almost any "exotic" animal is illegal. Whether that law is actually enforced is whole different thing. However, if you're breaking those laws, you have nobody but yourself to blame if someone kicks in your door one day.
Holly12
Member
Thank you this is what I was trying to tell others on here and I guess it took you to say this. Thanks for saying it maybe now everyone that had post on here will listen too you.
Holly12
Member
Again lol you are telling them what I have been trying to say I finely have someone that is saying this. IF YOU'RE BREAKING THOSE LAWS YOU HAVE NOBODY BUT YOURSELF TO BLAME IF SOMEONE KICKS IN YOUR DOOR ONE DAY. ;-)
jpstodwftexas
New member
Your Missing the point...
Several Raids were conducted previously on Established People and Reptile Businesses UnWarranted Charges were used as the Basis of those Raids.
The Warrant used to Raid Terry had nothing to do with the possession of the Animals.
Terry is considered one of the World's Leading Expert on the Chinese Alligator not just some Wanna be who owned one illegally.
I will ask you again..If your place gets raided using false charges and the Police raid your place and claim your pets are abused and confiscate them will you say "Oh Well, My Bad...Take them I am happy with What you Did."?
Simple Answer YES or NO
Several Raids were conducted previously on Established People and Reptile Businesses UnWarranted Charges were used as the Basis of those Raids.
The Warrant used to Raid Terry had nothing to do with the possession of the Animals.
Terry is considered one of the World's Leading Expert on the Chinese Alligator not just some Wanna be who owned one illegally.
I will ask you again..If your place gets raided using false charges and the Police raid your place and claim your pets are abused and confiscate them will you say "Oh Well, My Bad...Take them I am happy with What you Did."?
Simple Answer YES or NO
Holly12
Member
No your missing the point now do I have to get Ethan? I will not say it again. That guy had no right having dangerous reptiles and yes the police had every right to bust down his door. So I don't have any venoumous or dangerous reptiles so I am not giving you a answer. Plus I would never own a dangerous or venomous reptile it's stupid. :roll::roll:
Riverside Reptiles
Administrator (HMFIC)
If the cops kick your door in on a warrant for stealing a candy bar, and they find a pile of cocaine on your table, they're going to charge you with possession of cocaine. Likewise, if they kick in your door on a sexual assault charge and find illegal or improperly kept animals, they're going to charge you with that as well.
I'm not saying that Terry is guilty. But I do have a hard time believing that a judge and prosecutor (who gave out the warrant), the police force, the Zoo, and the humane society are all in cahoots for some massive conspiracy against Terry or the reptile hobby in general. There are a LOT of exotic animal laws at the local level, and again, if you're breaking those laws, whether you're an "expert" or not, you're still subject to having to follow those laws. Race car drivers don't get to speed on public highways simply because they're "expert" drivers.
I'm not saying that this isn't a sad situation. It obviously is. It's sad for Terry, it's REALLY sad for the two dead dogs, and it sucks for the hobby as well, as it gives us all a bad name. But I'm not willing to let Terry off the hook just because he's a well known herper. If he didn't have all of his permits, or the animals were not legal, or they were kept in poor conditions, then he did himself, the animals, and the hobby a disservice by not following the laws. It's likely that many of us have animals that aren't exactly "legal" by the letter of the local laws (many of which are very silly). And for most of us, it will never affect us or our community in any negative way. However, at the end of the day, you're still responsible for breaking those laws if someone comes kicking your door in. Just my 2 cents on the subject.
jpstodwftexas
New member
A lot of what was said was "doctored" and very one sided in reports..
From What I have been able to find out none of the Animals were Illegal and as for actual conditions of the Animals there was never any outside people besides the "Concerned" Agencies were able to view the Conditions to verify the actual conditions the animals. I do not trust people enough to just take their word for it.
My Understanding is that Terry is one of the Few people to actual have permission from the Chinese Government to work with the Chinese Alligator..A Certain Zoo involved asked for permission to have a Pair and Was Denied permission by the Chinese Government but ended up with a pair after they were confiscated...Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
As for Conditions the Animals were kept in everything was definitely One sided in reports. In a Bit of Irony I was able to find 1 Follow up article saying the Agency that was responsible for the Confiscation and Upkeep of the Animals after the Confiscation had many of the Animals removed from their custody because they were being kept in worse conditions than when they were Removed from Terry's Care.
I am so tired of "experts" who have no actual knowledge of the actual animals care telling everyone how bad things are when in fact they really are not that bad.
How many of us have dead crickets or maybe no crickets on hand..If an Expert came in and Claimed you were keeping Animals in an abused state because of it would you be happy. I do not raise crickets nor keep any on hand at all times does that mean I am abusive?
My Natural Cages have animal poop in it does that make it Unsanitary conditions and Abusive?
What about the Fruit flies and Small Bugs crawling around the wet soil and decaying plant material?
Working in the Justice Field I do not condone falsely accusing or manipulating the system to by pass civil rights in order to arrest someone and get around laws and Take things away from someone because of personal beliefs. Apparently to one board member believes it is okay.
If the Animals were Illegal and Were Actually Kept in Bad Conditions then Okay..
I do Not Condone Anyone keeping Illegal Animals and I do Not Condone Abusive People. And I do not condone violating people rights just because I do not like someone keeping a certain type of Animal...Alligator..snake or a type of Dog Either.
From What I have been able to find out none of the Animals were Illegal and as for actual conditions of the Animals there was never any outside people besides the "Concerned" Agencies were able to view the Conditions to verify the actual conditions the animals. I do not trust people enough to just take their word for it.
My Understanding is that Terry is one of the Few people to actual have permission from the Chinese Government to work with the Chinese Alligator..A Certain Zoo involved asked for permission to have a Pair and Was Denied permission by the Chinese Government but ended up with a pair after they were confiscated...Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
As for Conditions the Animals were kept in everything was definitely One sided in reports. In a Bit of Irony I was able to find 1 Follow up article saying the Agency that was responsible for the Confiscation and Upkeep of the Animals after the Confiscation had many of the Animals removed from their custody because they were being kept in worse conditions than when they were Removed from Terry's Care.
I am so tired of "experts" who have no actual knowledge of the actual animals care telling everyone how bad things are when in fact they really are not that bad.
How many of us have dead crickets or maybe no crickets on hand..If an Expert came in and Claimed you were keeping Animals in an abused state because of it would you be happy. I do not raise crickets nor keep any on hand at all times does that mean I am abusive?
My Natural Cages have animal poop in it does that make it Unsanitary conditions and Abusive?
What about the Fruit flies and Small Bugs crawling around the wet soil and decaying plant material?
Working in the Justice Field I do not condone falsely accusing or manipulating the system to by pass civil rights in order to arrest someone and get around laws and Take things away from someone because of personal beliefs. Apparently to one board member believes it is okay.
If the Animals were Illegal and Were Actually Kept in Bad Conditions then Okay..
I do Not Condone Anyone keeping Illegal Animals and I do Not Condone Abusive People. And I do not condone violating people rights just because I do not like someone keeping a certain type of Animal...Alligator..snake or a type of Dog Either.
Ozymandias
New member
jpstodwftexas brought up the main point that the animals were there legally. but i also want say that many of the animals there had actually been given to him local agency that had confiscated them but could not take care of them, and quite a few of those places where were the animals were sent to once they where confiscated from him.
in the end the whole this is really confusing and we really are only hearing one side of it too.
in the end the whole this is really confusing and we really are only hearing one side of it too.
Riverside Reptiles
Administrator (HMFIC)
I can only base my opinion by the articles that are posted here. I suppose that I could dig through the internet to try to find more, but honestly, I have too many other things going on. It doesn't matter if the Chinese gov't allows him to have the Alligators, if the local city or county law says no alligators, it's illegal. I don't know what the local laws are in his area...but I wouldn't be surprised he wasn't breaking a few of them. The local laws here in my county make it almost impossible to legally own almost any exotic animal. I agree with much that you said, but again, I don't see any evidence to back up any of these theories of conspiracy. And I have no idea where all of your information is coming from or the accuracy of it. At the end of the day though, my opinion obviously doesn't make one bit of difference for or against Terry. Whether he's guilty or not, it's a sad situation. The hobby gets the short end of the stick either way.
Cullen should definitely take it to court. I don't know exactly what conditions or what the habitat situation is for all the animals in there. Maybe it's even better and more secure than a zoo? We have no facts. But it does look bad for Cullen, if it is as reporters have said there are rotting carcasses inside...
But if I were Cullen I would definitely fight the case in court. I question the legality of owning those animals, but I also question the legality of not owning them. Don't really know the local laws there. Maybe alligators are illegal, but is it illegal to own snakes and lizards? The cops took everything indiscriminately.
Also, if that warrant was falsely issued then the whole situation is moot and Cullen should get all his animals back and sue the local government for the expenditures this has cost him. You cannot use evidence in court from instances where authorities illegally enter a person's property and confiscate a person's property.
What happens if the animal control fails to care for these animals they have confiscated? Cullen can sue animal control as well.
Seems like he was charged with sexual assault..? probably that was the reason why the warrant was issued?
But if I were Cullen I would definitely fight the case in court. I question the legality of owning those animals, but I also question the legality of not owning them. Don't really know the local laws there. Maybe alligators are illegal, but is it illegal to own snakes and lizards? The cops took everything indiscriminately.
Also, if that warrant was falsely issued then the whole situation is moot and Cullen should get all his animals back and sue the local government for the expenditures this has cost him. You cannot use evidence in court from instances where authorities illegally enter a person's property and confiscate a person's property.
What happens if the animal control fails to care for these animals they have confiscated? Cullen can sue animal control as well.
Seems like he was charged with sexual assault..? probably that was the reason why the warrant was issued?
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