Lygodactylus williamsi considered Critically Endangered

[gymnodactylus]

A recent paper in the German herpetological journal "Salamandra" discusses the conservation status of Lygodactylus williamsi and things are not looking good. A combination of habitat destruction and collecting for the pet trade have devastated wild populations. The authors conclude that at least 15% of the estimated Lygodactylus williamsi population were collected for the pet trade between 2004 and 2009!!! This paper is a "must read" for those concerned with the conservation and continued survival of this amazing gecko.

Flecks, M., F. Weinsheiner, W. Böhme, J. Chenga, AS. Lötters & D. Rödder. 2012. Watching extinction happen: the dramatic population decline of the critically endangered Tanzanian Turquoise Dwarf Gecko, Lygodactylus williamsi. Salamandra 48:12–20
Abstract. The turquoise dwarf gecko (Lygodactylus williamsi) is endemic to two small forests in eastern Tanzania, where it exclusively dwells on screwpines (Pandanus rabaiensis). To assess its population status, we surveyed its habitats at the Kimboza Forest Reserve and (under different assumptions) estimated the population size of the territorial L. williamsi based on habitat availability, using Pandanus abundance as a proxy. Furthermore, threats to the species, especially the impact of the international pet trade on the population, were studied. Our results suggest a severe population decline, as the observed population size is one third smaller than its potential size based on habitat availability (i.e., Pandanus). We estimate that in a period of four and a half years, at least 15% of the potential population were collected for the pet trade, making it a major threat to L. williamsi next to habitat degradation. Based on our results, we consider this species to be threatened with extinction (Critically Endangered).

 

[NicKtheGreeK1997]

That's why I have always been against WC animals. It's ok with big breeders to create a colony of WC animals and start breeding them, that's how they become popular as CB after some years. However some people prefer the cheap and easy solution of buying the WC ones even if they want to keep them as pets (no exess breeding) because they aren't included in CITES. And shortly, the species become endangered, protected by CITES but still the illegal exports don't stop till there are no more animals to be found. Sad but true story. It will happen with other geckos one day (such as tokays)...

 

[Aimless]

that's not really a surprise, but is still very sad

oh and Nick, WC vs CB vs CBB is a huge can of worms...but for L williamsi, it's seriously complicated by habitat destruction of the very tiny area where they are native.

 

[JonRich]

Sad times we live in!! But whets even more sad is that no matter how much effort is put towards captive breeding in hopes to reintroduce, it will be all in vain if there is no habitat to send them back to.

I feel very lucky to have recently acquired a small group of CBB L.williamsi

 

[Harvey]

Sad times we live in!! But whets even more sad is that no matter how much effort is put towards captive breeding in hopes to reintroduce, it will be all in vain if there is no habitat to send them back to.

I feel very lucky to have recently acquired a small group of CBB L.williamsi

You should feel very lucky to have some of these gems!:biggrin:

It's very sad to hear this. I mean, we all knew it was coming though. Its not like a species of animal can be common but only lives in one nature reserve in the world and is only found on one species of tree. Psh..... probably made them really easy to find when tanzania still had imports going.

I used to have one CB male that I got from a pet store I was unfamiliar with. I just had to get him though. His price was very low and he looked to be in good shape. Its one of those things that I felt I would look back on and kick myself for not risking it. Anyways, the little dude didn't last even week. He didn't have any mites and ate a little here and there, nothing too extreme but got a couple crickets and a couple licks of his banana. By the fourth or fifth day he had died while I was gone. I'm not sure what could have killed him, most likely a parasite but he didn't show any signs.

For the time I had him he was truly my favorite reptile I had ever owned. Now, I'm somewhat afraid I won't get another chance to keep one again. If I was going to get one the only reason I would have it is to breed it and that would be even more rare. Hopefully they do good in America and the bloodlines are good so I can get some back again.

I was shocked to see

 

[AWW]

Think globally, act locally

OK, I admit it. Despite knowing better, I got a breeding pair of L. williamsi from a petstore knowing they were probably wild caught (this was back in 2008). After reading that they're only found in one forest reserve, and watching them explore in the trade, I saw this coming as I'm sure many others did. Many of us are probably guilty of encouraging this at some point or another through supporting businesses that deal in wild caught (WC) specimens, but instead of pointing fingers, as a community we should think about how we can improve the future individually and as a group.

I personally have resolved to never buy WC herps again unless I know the population is more than healthy or invasive (from a conservation standpoint; health of individuals is another issue). Nor will I patronize dealers who may be selling WC species that aren't being taken sustainably. I think and hope most folks on this forum are with me on that.

A lot of us can't effectively address habitat loss issues for most ecosystems. Can we in this case? I don't know much about the area; would it be possible to purchase habitat? (Remember when people were raising money to buy acres of rainforest in the Amazon in the 1990s?)

We can address the issue of keeping a viable and genetically diverse population of L. williamsi in captivity, both to prevent the need for WC specimens for the pet trade and hopefully one day to repopulate the wild.
When I first got mine, there was a post on this forum for a studbook being maintained in Europe (European Studbook Foundation). I registered but didn't follow up until now. A quick check of the site doesn't show any evidence of recent activity. Does anyone have any recent info on this effort? Are there similar efforts for North America?

We can also do some PR campaigning. I think most folks on this forum are pretty good about educating themselves and others about issues like this. How is this type of problem being countered at chain petstores? Can we do more to inform the general public and uninformed buyers? I'm not involved in the captive herp scene as much these days, so please fill me in on where our community stands on these issues.

Let's try to be constructive and improve this situation as best we can!

 

[hexentanz]

This has been the case for a long time sadly, so it is really nothing new.

In all honesty the main blame for this is Americans, we (yes, I really mean WE, despite my current location) are greedy as hell when it comes to the latest greatest things in every hobby. Unfortunately we often do not take the best care of these things and often want to see rushed results and the majority will never do the research. I was here in Germany when these guys started showing up in the hobby and that was not too long ago and here we are a few short years later and we have already managed to almost kill these guys off in the wild entirely with our greed. Bravo! :cheer:

Yes, people in other countries are also greedy, but really it has been proven many times over, that Americans are the worst at this!

Oh and btw, I waited a few years and purchased 100% captive bred williamsi.

 

[Harvey]

So I have written this post many times, and of coarse I keep getting logged out so I’ll have to do it quick and leave out a bulk of the information I wrote before. lets see if I remember what I was typing.... hhhhmmmm.... Anyways.

First of all, I have to say I agree with you Maureen. You are very much right about us Americans and how we get what we want. Sadly if we desire something than most likely we will end up with it. In this case some of us wanted williamsi and we did get them, too much of them. though there are some of us in the hobby that do it right, most of the rest of us are quite careless and don’t pay attention to our world’s preservation. I myself have only bought captive bred geckos and geckos that I know had a sustainable population. The only animals I have bought that were wild imports are my group of Smaug mossambicus. I hope to start a captive breeding stock in America as there is none at the moment and there seems to be a ridiculous amount of imports. Which brings me to my next point.

To ensure any type of healthy captive population is to have viable breeding stock. The only way to get this stock is from healthy breeders of the species you are looking to introduce into the hobby. In this case, the breeding stock was only found in Tanzania and had to be imported. The trade was interested and used in-field suppling techniques. Soon little blue geckos started coming in to the highest count of reptile breeders or interests. I was reading an article on New York Times about the tedious phase-outs that all AZA zoos are going through. A quote from a Bronx Zoo keeper stated, I’m not sure if I can support this as I read it a long time ago, if you know the exact number please state it, “ You need 100 fertile pairs for 100 years of good breeding.” If this is so than some of the imports that took place where need. However I don’t think the thousands upon thousands were needed. A thousand geckos would be a preferably number to have been imported to America but the imports were never managed leaving the geckos to there death. Are wild caught imports are so important that we would never be able to breed any of the reptiles we have today without the high import totals. Yes, there is a point where it gets to be too much and we went over board, but people can’t just expect to only get captive breed uncommon animals and expect to not inbreed and mess up the new population.

I do think lygodactylus williamsi will have a very big future a head of them. There are defiantly enough breeders to ensure a good future for them in captivity. Though I can’t say the same for the wild stock. I know that these geckos will most defiantly go extinct in there native homeland. Once this happens all the burdens of breeding a healthy and sustainable population of “extinct in the wild” geckos will fall on the private breeders like yourselves. Once they go extinct all the zoos will be scrambling to find some geckos, breed them once, and take all the credit for it, while we, the private breeders, that made sure the species would survive in our world will be advertised as the cause of there dismiss. We will be seen as the problem and more rules will be enforced about the keeping of exotic animals. So far there are very few zoos that have even bothered with this gecko and I’m sure that once more are aware it will become a growing problem.

One thing that I'm somewhat worried about it the captive futures of Lygodactylus picturatus and Lygodactylus kimhowelli. These geckos aren't endangered but are also no longer being exported. If we, This will be going to Americans since I have no idea what the current number of picturatus/kimhowelli is, want to own these animals in private collections and have a healthy breeding stock than we best get going on the breeding and leave the williamsi for a select few people. Even though williamsi are now critically endangered, they are very abundant in the trade and will more than likely progress. Once the williamsi's fame is increased even more the other two more commonly kept ones, will decrease in captivity and will be forgotten about until there are almost no left and not enough to have a good breeding population. The interest in them will increase once people have noticed they are no longer advertised and the cost will rise for them. I know that I will be focusing on these two species during the next couple years. I hope others will join as well.

 

[hexentanz]

Lygodactylus picturatus and kimhowelli are still new to showing up in the states, this is especially so with picturatus. When it was allowed to export/import them, many importers focused more on williamsi instead because there was a higher demand for the almighty blue coloring. I can assure you though, there is quite a few people working with L. kimhowelli over in the USA.

Lygodactylus picturatus is also still a bit rare in captivity here in Europe. In Germany alone it is me and 5 (that I know of to date) other people working with them. Though I am usually the only one with captive bred animals on a show. Mid last year, everybody wanted L. kimhowelli, which was great because I had so many of them, that they were coming out my ears almost. This year everybody seems to want L. picturatus and I have issues keeping up with the demand and the next time I will have any offspring for sale will be September.

Now what I really would like to see more of in the hobby is Lygodactylus grotei, they are a beautiful species and a delight to work with. They can be tricky at first, but once you get going you really get going. I am absolutely in love with these little beauties, they share the same curiosity as williamsi, but are a bit more daring. Now these guys are so rare, that in Europe it is only me and one other person having luck with breeding them, it may also extend all over the world, I will not say it for sure, i have still yet to get in contact with the only person I knew of to be breeding them in the USA.

I think i have a new idea for a really good thread.


P.S Sorry if my sentences are a bit scattered, I am still half asleep.

 

[hexentanz]

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...tylus/64390-data-collection-lygodactylus.html

 

[LLDG]

I have committed to long term captive breed of L williamsi.

As a keeper, I specialize in problem gecko species. I've had great successes and some utter failures.

L williamsi deserve to be preserved. I am sorry only that they are exploited for money and profit.

Hats off to those keepers out there that keep geckos not because they can turn a profit by breeding geckos but want sincerely to contribute even in a small way to the preservation of species.

 

[Mantisdragon91]

In all honesty the main blame for this is Americans, we (yes, I really mean WE, despite my current location) are greedy as hell when it comes to the latest greatest things in every hobby. Unfortunately we often do not take the best care of these things and often want to see rushed results and the majority will never do the research. I was here in Germany when these guys started showing up in the hobby and that was not too long ago and here we are a few short years later and we have already managed to almost kill these guys off in the wild entirely with our greed. Bravo! :cheer:

Yes, people in other countries are also greedy, but really it has been proven many times over, that Americans are the worst at this!

Oh and btw, I waited a few years and purchased 100% captive bred williamsi.

Actually Maureen,

The West Europeans and especially the Germans are much worse at grabbing newly discovered species(often illegaly) than the Americans. This can especially be seen in the dart frog hobby where just this month a bunch of Costa Rican frogs just came in from Europe with obviously doctored Cites paperwork. Europe is also the origin for most of the Brazilian, Columbian, Peruvian and Ecuadorian frogs currently in the US, most of which have never been legally exported from their countries of origin. On an even more disturbing note within the last decade several Germans were shot trying to smuggle endangered ploughshare Tortoises from a national preserve:yikes:

 

[froggecko]

CB Williamsi

What I don't get about these wonderful little guys is there seems to be very little CB going on. I had a pair of CB and from them, mostly due to my ignorance in starting out, only got one baby to adulthood from all their clutches. The female has evidently passed as I haven't seen her in months. I have two beautiful active CB males....and cannot find a CB female anywhere. I keep beautiful natural habitats for them, raise their food and feed fresh fruits. Seems to me the least we could do to ensure this great little gecko does not disappear is CB.

If anyone knows of females CB ONLY in the US available for sale, I would love to try them! I did find some, but they were selling/shipping at what I felt was too young of an age for them to make the trip.

 

[Harvey]

It's official! Lygodactylus williamsi is now considered a Critically Endangered.... The AZA and other organizations have not published any significant interest in this species, or any day geckos for that matter. Hopefully this unfortunate accident will bring attention to this species.

Lygodactylus williamsi (Turquoise Dwarf Gecko, Williams' Dwarf Gecko)

 

[froggecko]

Breeding females

I would so like to breed these guys. I have had some success, but now am down to two males only. I don't want to loose them and never have more and I want to support the effort to keep the species alive, even if captive bred!

It's official! Lygodactylus williamsi is now considered a Critically Endangered.... The AZA and other organizations have not published any significant interest in this species, or any day geckos for that matter. Hopefully this unfortunate accident will bring attention to this species.

Lygodactylus williamsi (Turquoise Dwarf Gecko, Williams' Dwarf Gecko)

 

[LLDG]

That L williamsi is now critically endangered is no surprise to me. That I've been called and called for the last year by people wanting my captive bred L williamsi is also no surprise to me either.

I have contact with a small number of keepers who are successful with williamsi. We all pretty much agree that lots of keepers out there will now want to do L williamsi and most will fail spectacularly as these geckos are not easy.

If as a keeper you really want to try L williamsi then first develop your husbandry skills on other geckos.

Per my recent burn with the P. inexpectata co-op, I am not going to be so very willing to give anyone a try at the L. williamsi from my group.

 

[JonRich]

That L williamsi is now critically endangered is no surprise to me. That I've been called and called for the last year by people wanting my captive bred L williamsi is also no surprise to me either.

I have contact with a small number of keepers who are successful with williamsi. We all pretty much agree that lots of keepers out there will now want to do L williamsi and most will fail spectacularly as these geckos are not easy.

If as a keeper you really want to try L williamsi then first develop your husbandry skills on other geckos.

Per my recent burn with the P. inexpectata co-op, I am not going to be so very willing to give anyone a try at the L. williamsi from my group.

I completely understand your concerns in making sure your animals end up in responsible hands. I think because of the caution the keepers take that do keep/breed L.williamsi, i find it hard to find them.

I have 4 males again. I say again, because one was traded for a "female" that turned out to also be male. I would love to trade with other keepers, but i find the sexing issue to be a problem.

I now find myself being forced to sell my stock at higher prices to fund the purchase of females. Often they are priced high/er and i still end up coming out of pocket.
Like this one For Sale Female electric blue day gecko - FaunaClassifieds with $50-$60 shipping, it brings this girl out to about $150-$160 shipped:shock:

I keep other reptiles and sometimes space is an issue. I now find myself with 4 enclosures for 4 single male williamsi because they were starting to fight when together. Its a bit frustrating to tell you the truth. Hopefully i can source a female soon.

 

[JonRich]

How is this still happeneing?

This is a recent responce e-mail about an add on KingSnake about some L.williamsi for sale.

 

[strikedistance]

I saw the same thing. Contacted him and he has "a few pairs left". Emailed again and got no response...I don't understand. All I know is they used to be brought to South Africa and then smuggled out from there saying they were from somewhere else. Its sickening.

 

[JonRich]

I saw the same thing. Contacted him and he has "a few pairs left". Emailed again and got no response...I don't understand. All I know is they used to be brought to South Africa and then smuggled out from there saying they were from somewhere else. Its sickening.

Must have been a large shipment. Because everyone seems to have them now. I'm sure ALL are WC! And they took a serious price hike. I see some pairs going for $300+ shipping.