Egg incubation

daggekko

New member
Want to hit this topic up before I start getting eggs again. Seems like I am getting 90 % or more females from the eggs I've been hatching. I have tried on top of tanks(where the temps were up around 87F and cooled down to high 70s-low 80s. I've incubated in an incubator where the temps stay 80-83F.

My understanding is that some species don't require temp change to get boys, while some(like guimbeaui/borbonica) do. The species I've been hatching are P. laticauda, P. abbotti chekei, and P. pasteuri.

I'd like to hear what other people are doing with incubation and temperature ranges(or stable temps) and if you are getting the same results or mixed gender babies.

Thanks
 

colinmelsom

New member
This will be interesting.A few years ago I was convinced of this with my borbonica but I am not now.There are more factors other than heat that affect sex ratios.What they are I dont know though.
 

daggekko

New member
Yeah. I've been wondering the mess out of this question. Last year I used a lot of repashy MRP's. I was starting to wonder if that might have something to do with it. Who knows. Maybe as some of the younger babies get older I'll find myself crawling with males!
 

colinmelsom

New member
Well Adam by the lack of replies it would seem that either other people have cracked it and are not letting on or its more a matter of luck. :)
 

daggekko

New member
Yeah. Or maybe everyone is just too busy to get on here. I did speak with one keeper though. He told me that he basically had his incubator set to power down at night. I am going to hook mine up to a timer to kill it at night and might even go as far as to open the door after work so it cools down more. Room temps are around 65-72F at night. I suppose later in the year I will update this thread when I find out if I have started hatching out males or not. Keeping my fingers crossed:biggrin:
 

mkschaefer

New member
Check out this thread:
PhelsumaWeb.nl • Toon onderwerp - Breeding Phelsuma guimbeaui guimbeaui males

There are a number of renowned hobbyists sharing their experiences on that thread. I have learned a lot from some of the people on there. Depending on what the ratios I am trying to obtain and which species, I vary the incubation temperature.

For males, I incubate at baseline temperatures of 30 C. This attempts to replicate, in captivity, the average, seasonal maximum temperatures of many of the islands where some of our species of interest are endemic to (Reunion, Mauritius, etc.) I say baseline because I implement occasional spikes up to 32 C. I do that on either exceedingly warm days here or down there, compensating for the fact that we are in two different hemispheres. I believe it is important to have varying daytime temperatures in the high range.

Incubator(s) shut off at night and temperature will drop to 18.5-22.5 C (it can get below 16 C during the cool season on some of these islands' mountain regions). I like having the incubator (s) on a timer as the temperature inside gradually warms and cools each day.

Incubating at very high temperatures does appear to increase mortality, even in eggs that hatch. For example, I had a clutch of borbonica that incubated near the higher thresholds of the range. Both hatched, but one only survived a few weeks and did not appear to thrive from the beginning. It could have been from something else, though. The survivor is male. The next clutch was incubated a bit cooler, both survived, and the ratio is 1.1. I had similar results with cepediana in an early clutch from last year. One hatchling emerged and thrives, the next one never hatched and was dried up, fully formed, in the egg.

All that said, I think there was increased mortality in clutches that had more days at or above 32 C. Lower spike temps near 31 C yielded the 1.1. Far better to have mixed sexes hatching and living than a reduced number of males hatching and living. I will be keeping better records this year and I think that is the ever important piece for all of us. We need to track this information precisely and then our methods get better.

I believe the more similarly we keep Phelsuma to their natural habitat and "preferences," the more success we will have. As keepers, do we know their natural temperature ranges, humidity, precipitation, etc.? I believe Mark had good ratios with guimbeaui last year resulting from good husbandry and local conditions. I can't wait to see how the cepediana do in those conditions.
 

colinmelsom

New member
I think that one of the guys on there has now changed his mind a little bit.

The hard part is that these species are egg gluers and unless the eggs are laid on plants its difficult to remove them from the vivarium.Watching one of my female guimbeaui over the winter lay eggs in relatively shallow bamboo I am going to experiment with 35mm film cannisters.If I can get the right diameter bamboo I can put them down the end or alternatively tie a few together.This would make it easier to remove the eggs and put them in an incubator.
 

mkschaefer

New member
I agree, but still think it worth it to trace this for a bit. Excellent points. I have had to incubate whole sections of bamboo and last year actually incubated an entire Exo Terra. A female cepediana laid eggs on the glass and so I set up the entire enclosure to serve as an incubator, after evacuating the inhabitants and plants.
 

jadrig

New member
...Also, while working on a project with urban/agricultural streams, we had little temperature guages that recorded temps at programmed incriments. The device was the size of a flash drive and had a usb connection so that all you had to do was plug the device into your computer to read the data. From what I recall, they were pretty inexpensive. These recordings would be handy in order to know the exact temps that the eggs experienced...and easy to log as well.
 

daggekko

New member
...Also, while working on a project with urban/agricultural streams, we had little temperature guages that recorded temps at programmed incriments. The device was the size of a flash drive and had a usb connection so that all you had to do was plug the device into your computer to read the data. From what I recall, they were pretty inexpensive. These recordings would be handy in order to know the exact temps that the eggs experienced...and easy to log as well.

Got a brand/product name?
 

PhelsumaUK

New member
I think that one of the guys on there has now changed his mind a little bit.
.

Think that'll be me then Colin!....I've been experimenting for years with temperature and can't find anything conclusive with the Mauritian species. I've run through various other possibilities but without anything showing up. I believe that it is now male influence on females that determine the sex. The more males the female is exposed to (difficult in captivity but I've been using screened partitions) or the more dominant/agressive ('in yer face') the male in a pairing is, the more likely the offspring are to be male. Been getting 40 - 80% males (depending on species) for the last few years but still got some work to do...Not sure if the effect is visual or pheramonal as the latter is hard to control with large numbers of males in the same room
 
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