My girl just threw up a bunch of mealworms, re-ate some :\

Shijadi

New member
I just got done feeding my older girl Nyx, and proceeded to feed my other gecko. I look over when I'm done after I hear this weird wet sound, and I see a knot of the mealworms that she just ate. Then after a little bit, Nyx started licking and re-eating a few of the worms. I doubt that she is sick, but how worried should I be? Did she just get spooked or something? I know a T-Storm came through a little while ago, maybe she's was still stressed from that?
 

cricket4u

New member
I just got done feeding my older girl Nyx, and proceeded to feed my other gecko. I look over when I'm done after I hear this weird wet sound, and I see a knot of the mealworms that she just ate. Then after a little bit, Nyx started licking and re-eating a few of the worms. I doubt that she is sick, but how worried should I be? Did she just get spooked or something? I know a T-Storm came through a little while ago, maybe she's was still stressed from that?

Hi,

That's disgusting. I highly doubt a T-storm will cause regurgitation. Unfortunately, the causes are many. Worms too cold (right out of the refrigerator), dehydration, parasites, infection, improper temperatures and the list goes on..

Did you take the worms right out of the refrigerator? Have you had a fecal done on this gecko at least within the last year?

You can fill this out if you would like someone to check over your husbandry at least.

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...68527-helping-your-sick-gecko-read-first.html

Or you can read over similar threads and you may find solutions for husbandry errors that may be the cause.
 
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Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
I just got done feeding my older girl Nyx, and proceeded to feed my other gecko. I look over when I'm done after I hear this weird wet sound, and I see a knot of the mealworms that she just ate. Then after a little bit, Nyx started licking and re-eating a few of the worms. I doubt that she is sick, but how worried should I be? Did she just get spooked or something? I know a T-Storm came through a little while ago, maybe she's was still stressed from that?

Hi Shijadi ~

Thank you for sharing that Nyx regurgitated her last meal.

Completing GU's Health Questionnaire as linked in post #2 would be great. It helps us spot problems very easily.

Good idea to include pictures of Nyx and of her vivarium.
 

Shijadi

New member
Oh jeez I didn't think that cold food could make her throw up, that actually might have been the problem. I assumed the worms were fine since they started wiggling around a minute or two after I took them out of the fridge. I also fed her a few crickets before I got the worms and she kept those down. Considering this is the only time I've seen her do this, I'm not fretful, but I will monitor her over the next couple of days just to make sure; she's been eating normally ever since I've got her, and her feces have been normal.

I did finally upgrade to a 20gal long tank for Nyx, with tile, UTH, box hides, and I added a mini forest of fake ivy vines that she seems to be having fun with. I'm also very happy that she is finally getting a more decent heat gradient, her warm side is in the low 90s now, and the humidity levels have finally dropped to 40% now that I'm home from college. I'm currently working on making grout hides to replace the boxes, which should be ready in a few days. In any case I will try to get a pictures of her and of her set up ASAP.

And here is the Questionnaire:


Species of lizard: Leopard Gecko
Gecko's name: Nyx
Morph: High yellow
Gender: female
Age: 7-8 months
Weight: N/A
Total length: 8-10 inches
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: 4-5 inches
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): Petsmart
Captive bred or wild caught: Captive

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth): 30x12x12 (inches)
Cage (type, size): 20gal long
Substrate provided: tile
Types of hiding places provided: Warm dry, cool dry
Is there a humidity hide? location? Not a solid hide, I've been misting a thick area of fake plant which forms a little tent. THIS IS TEMPORARY, MAKING NEW HIDES.
Please describe any other furnishings: Cardboard boxes, fave ivy vines, water dish
List recent changes in the environment, if any: brand new tank setup, maybe 3-4 days old

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s): Basking bulb that came with tanks, 60 Watt
Fluorescent (tube bulbs):
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: There is a window a few feet away from tank set up.

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? yes
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): Still analog, switching to digital ASAP
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 90-93F
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 90
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: 85F
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): UTH
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): yes
Are you using a thermostat(s)? no
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? She usually naps in the midrange of her tank
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? about a 10F drop

Humidity
Is the humidity measured?
Humidity range: 30% - 40%

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: Crickets, mealworms, VERY OCCASIONAL waxworms
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms:
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? Slices of produce (Apples, potatoes, etc.)
How often do you feed your gecko? once every night
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Flukers Calcium and Rep-Cal Herptivite, mixed together, dusted on insects 2-3 times a week
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? Flukers with D3
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? no
Multivitamins (include brand name)? Rep-Cal Herptivite
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: N/A

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: N/A, threw up once
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? Slightly increased with more exploration space
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? Normal
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): very slight wavering weight loss in tail, nothing out of the ordinary
Discharge from the eyes or nose: No
Increased breathing rate or effort: No
Change in the droppings: No
Urates
---white or yellowish: white
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: 1/3 to 1/2
Abnormal skin color or shedding: none
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: none
Weakness: N/A

Previous problems and/or illnesses: slight impaction over a month ago, otherwise fine

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: none
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): Juv. leopard gecko
Are any of your other pets ill? no




I think that's everything....
 

Shijadi

New member
Also I just went and checked on Nyx again, and she ate the rest of the worms she threw up, so I'm going to assume it was that they were too cold or she got spooked or something.
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Also I just went and checked on Nyx again, and she ate the rest of the worms she threw up, so I'm going to assume it was that they were too cold or she got spooked or something.

Hope cold worms was the problem. Letting the worms warm to room temp should fix that. If the same thing ever happens again, I would give her fresh worms to eat.

Were those same mealworms OK for the other gecko you fed a few minutes later?

Off to read your HQ reply.
 

Shijadi

New member
The little baby snarfed his/her food down no problem. Gave crickets and mealworms, same as Nyx.

Here's some pics of the tank and Nyx exploring around. Feeling a little proud of this temporary set up, might actually keep some of the ivy!

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Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Shijadi ~

Excellent reported growth!

1) Add moist hide on warm end 24/7 which assists with hydration and shedding

2) Temps too warm in some places. Perhaps removing the 60 watt basking bulb will help? What is your room temp? Possibility of cooler location for Nyx's new enclosure?

Recommended temperatures for all leos regardless of size
88-93 F (31-34 C) ground temp at warm end inside the warm dry hide
no greater than 85 F (29.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
no greater than 75 F (24.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the cool end

Leave the UTH on 24/7. Turn off the overhead lighting/heating at night (~12 hours on and ~12 hours off) unless ambient room temperatures are particularly cool during the night.

3) Better diet for your crickets. Click: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-feeding-issues/68574-cricket-guidelines.html

At the top of those guidelines you'll find a USDA food link. Enter most any food there to find the calcium to phosphorus ratio. You want foods that are at least 1.0 calcium to 1.0 phosphorus. Greater calcium content is better. Kale and too many carrots have been reported to be calcium binders.

4) Too much Herptivite and the fact that Herptivite contains vitamin A in the form of bete carotene. Research on chameleons suggests they do not utilize beta carotene very well.

Suggest switching to:
Lightly dust crickets and Blaptica dubia with Zoo Med's supplements like this:
1. Monday - Repti Calcium with D3 adjusted for your gecko's weight
2. Thursday - Repti Calcium with D3 adjusted for your gecko's weight
3. PLAIN Reptivite (multivitamin) with A acetate adjusted for your leo's weight: Spread out the lightly dusted Reptivite multivitamin crickets over the course of a week. Use the Reptivite (multivitamin) very sparingly.
 
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cricket4u

New member
You need thermostat to control the temperatures of the UTH. This alone can be the reason she regurgitated.

Are you using a thermostat(s)? no
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? She usually naps in the midrange of her tank
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
The little baby snarfed his/her food down no problem. Gave crickets and mealworms, same as Nyx.

Here's some pics of the tank and Nyx exploring around. Feeling a little proud of this temporary set up, might actually keep some of the ivy!

......

Is Nyx kept alone?

The ivy adds shelter enabling Nyx to feel secure. :yahoo:

Good news with the little baby and no barfing last night!
 

Shijadi

New member
I'm aware of the moist hide, like I said she will have a more permanent hide finished in a few days, grout just takes a while. I did forget to mention that I am misting on the warm end of the tank.

Lets see the room temperature stays around 70 degrees as we have automated AC constantly running. I'll try switching from a basking bulb to a regular day bulb to help with the heat.

I will check out the cricket info, see what I can do with that.

And thanks for letting me know about the vitamins, someone else told me to use multivitamins every other day, and that was the only kind I could get ahold of. Also it specifically said I needed to mix in calcium dust with whatever I was dusting with, so I though having the two together would end up being easier, but I guess I'll keep two separate baggies, one for each dust.

Also I should probably invest in a gram scale, still need to get a hold of one of those.
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Shijadi said:
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): Still analog, switching to digital ASAP

One other suggestion:

Some analogs have been reported to be accurate, but many aren't. How about getting that digital with a probe soon like you have mentioned? Proper heat is really key in keeping leos healthy.
 

Shijadi

New member
Nyx is kept alone, although I was thinking about introducing the other into her tank, provided it turns out to be a female.

I know that it's not recommended--in fact I know you'll tell me don't do it!!--and that I will do all the research I can about preparing for that sort of thing. All I know is that sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, it just depends.

At any rate I need to wait till both geckos are the same size/weight before thinking about something like that. So it's a consideration down the road I might try.


And yeah, the baby is just fine, I'm so happy he/she got moved into a real tank! I completely cleaned out Nyx's old ten gallon, and he/she is in love!! Posted new pics on this thread if you wanna see:

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/community/leopard-geckos-morphs-genetics/74653-new-gecko-2.html
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
I'm aware of the moist hide, like I said she will have a more permanent hide finished in a few days, grout just takes a while. I did forget to mention that I am misting on the warm end of the tank.

Lets see the room temperature stays around 70 degrees as we have automated AC constantly running. I'll try switching from a basking bulb to a regular day bulb to help with the heat.

Consider a ceramic heat emitter for the overhead heat on the warm end. A Hydrofarm MTPRTC thermostat (Amazon ~$35) is really a must to keep the temps stable even though it seems as if you have a good temp under the warm dry hide already.

I will check out the cricket info, see what I can do with that.

And thanks for letting me know about the vitamins, someone else told me to use multivitamins every other day, and that was the only kind I could get ahold of. Also it specifically said I needed to mix in calcium dust with whatever I was dusting with, so I though having the two together would end up being easier, but I guess I'll keep two separate baggies, one for each dust.

Also I should probably invest in a gram scale, still need to get a hold of one of those.

I know about Rep Cal's calcium with D3 + herptivite mixing instructions. I actually use calcium with D3 more often than my plain Zoo Med Reptivite multivitamin.

Of course some vitamin A acetate and some vitamin D3 (plus others) can be obtained via the diet.

Here's a post following my leo care sheet written by mod Hilde.

#22---***GU's Mod Hilde on Calcium, Vitamin A, & D3 interactions, et cetera***
VITAMIN A:
: Promotes bone growth, teeth development.
: Helps form and maintain healthy skin, hair, mucous membranes.
: Builds body's resistance to respiratory infections.
: Essential for normal function of retina. Combines with purple pigment of retina (opsin) to form rhodopsin, which is necessary for sight in partial darkness.
: Necessary for proper testicular function, ovarian function, embryonic development, regulation of growth, differentiation of tissues.

VITAMIN D:
: Plays a key role in the absorption of calcium for bone and tooth development.
: Affects cardiovascular health, immune system, cancer prevention
: Has a major role in muscle development & strength
: Key role in mental health and depression avoidance

VITAMINS A & D interaction with other substances:
: Calcium decreases absorption of fat-soluble Vitamins A, D, E and K.

You can't see the Vitamin A shortage easily, except for possibly poor vision and/or aim when hunting. Rough skin is usually shrugged off as a 'bit of a bad shed' and hope it works better next time. If not.... well, we'll just remove the stuck skin with a cotton pad.

Lethargy and weakness might be chalked up to many things including boredom or brumation, never a thought that it could hint at a Vitamin D shortage.

CALCIUM - excess:
Excess calcium in the digestive tract can hinder absorption of Vitamin A and D (we won't worry about E & K here). MBD is often considered to be caused by a shortage of calcium, but can happen even though there is ample calcium available. If there's not enough Vit D available, either stored in the liver absorbed via food/supplements, then there won't be enough calcium absorbed. If you suspect a calcium shortage, it's easy to increase the amount available by dusting more often, even to the point of 'icing' the bugs with calcium, all of which just puts more calcium into the intestines but allowing less and less Vitamin A & D to be absorbed.... a vicious circle. The result is a gecko with possible MBD (even if it's on calcium substrate and gets calcium supplement), and a severe shortage of Vitamin A & D.

And so it continues.... more calcium, less vitamin A & D.

The next big worry is the next generation. The offspring of parents with Vitamin A and/or D imbalance can affect the young - they might hatch tiny, maybe shorter than normal tails, missing or deformed eyelids, a pouch-like flap of skin under the chin (looks like a tiny dewlap), weak, poor vision or even blind, weak or even deformed bones, including skull. It gets shrugged off as one of those things, after all, even in the wild they don't all hatch perfect.

Who would have thought that it could be traced to excess calcium?

Some people shy away from supplementing with pre-formed Vitamin A. It's been proven that geckos need it, they can't convert beta-carotene well enough to make do with just that. If the parents of your gecko were only supplemented with beta-carotene, no pre-formed Vit A, then they were prime candidates for a Vit A deficiency, and their offspring suffered the consequences. At the very least, add some pre-formed Vit A to the supplements a few times a month. Most can be beta-carotene, but the bit of pre-formed A will tide them over until they get enough beta-carotene converted."

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Related post #48 here: Can plain calcium carbonate be overdosed? Check link from post #5 onwards......
Leos having health issues,setup question
 
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Shijadi

New member
Well I'm thinking it was cold worms. I fed Nyx again last night and she kept her food down this time; left her worms out for 30mins. I will continue to monitor her eating :)
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Well I'm thinking it was cold worms. I fed Nyx again last night and she kept her food down this time; left her worms out for 30mins. I will continue to monitor her eating :)

If you can keep us updated, that would be wonderful. :)
 
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cricket4u

New member
Once again it could also be this:

Are you using a thermostat(s)? no
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? She usually naps in the midrange of her tank


It sounds as if the warm pot is too hot for her taste so she is hanging around midrange the tank. She may not be accessing the heat as often in needed backing up her GI. A thermostat is super important.

Especially since you mentioned this:

slight impaction over a month ago

Also it would be best to get rid of Flukers calcium, it includes about 100,000 iu of d3 per pound (too much). Only dust a (very)few insects a week lightly.
 
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