Not eating much, runny poop-cause for concern?

S

StickyFingers

New member
My leo hasn't been eating much for the past few weeks. Usually he will practically inhale waxworms, but he has been refusing these most of the time, and wont touch any mealworms I offer him. He has also been having some runny poops (attaching a photo). Is this worthy of a trip to the vet?

Basic Information
Species of lizard:Leopard gecko
Gecko's name: Sanjay
Morph: SHTCTB
Gender: Male
Age: ~1 year
Weight: 66 grams

Enclosure dimensions (length x width x height): 30" x 12" x 12" (20 gallon long)
Substrate provided: Paper towels

What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarium type, other): I use a temp gun
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 92
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground:
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground:
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, Ceramic Heat Emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): UTH

Insects and worms, list type: mealworms, crickets, waxworms
Regular diet fed to the insects: crickets-bearded dragon pellets
Regular diet fed to the worms: giant mealworms-oatmeal and carrots

How often do you feed your gecko? I leave a bowl containing mealworms at all times, he will eat when he is hungry (I have never had a problem with him overeating)
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Reptivite with d3 2-3 times a week (dust the feeders)

If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs:


Additional Information

General
Gecko's total length: ~9"
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: No idea
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): Pet store
Captive bred or wild caught: Captive bred

Vivarium
Number of hides: 3
Location of hides: Warm hide over UTH, Humid hide in middle, cool hide on cool side
Is there a humidity hide? location? yes, middle of enclosure
Please describe any other furnishings:
List recent changes in the environment, if any: none

Lighting
Artificial lighting: none
Incandescent ("screw-in type bulbs): wattages: none
Fluorescent (tube bulbs): none
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: yes

Heating
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): entire tank is elevated on standard size hockey pucks
Are you using a thermostat(s)? Yes
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? warm
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? no

Humidity
Is the humidity measured? no
Humidity range:

Diet (see above)
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with?
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both?
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without?
Multivitamins (include brand name)?
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet:

General Health
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? increased from winter activity (he slowed down a lot over the winter due to the cold, he has started to get more active as the weather has gotten warmer)
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? decreased
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): lost about 10g
Discharge from the eyes or nose: none
Increased breathing rate or effort:none
Change in the droppings:
Urates
---white or yellowish: white, when the poops were normal
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: when the poops were normal
Abnormal skin color or shedding: nope
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: not that I can see
Weakness: none
Regurgitation: none

Previous problems and/or illnesses
He had parasites when I got him a year ago, which have been taken care of. Had a possible respiratory infection this winter, which was treated with antibiotics

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: none
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): none
Are any of your other pets ill? no
IMG_4111.jpg
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Hi StickyFingers ~

My sincere apologies for not getting back with you sooner.

How has Sanjay been doing? How about posting photos of 66 gram, 9 inch Sanjay and his enclosure? I understand he's had a recent 10 gram weight loss.

The feces you picture could be caused by a waxworm diet. Leos get addicted to waxworms in no time flat and then refuse to eat other things. However, other things can cause diarrhea. How about having a vet check him out?

You will probably need to practice tough love to get him back on crickets and maybe mealworms. Hornworms could spark his appetite. :)

Please reply to these questions/issues:
  1. What is your cool end ground temperature?
  2. Do you leave the UTH on 24/7?
  3. Size of your UTH?
  4. Can you move the humid hide to the warm end instead of in the middle?
  5. Are you using Zoo Med's Natural Adult Bearded Dragon Food to feed the crickets? If so, that would be a better diet for the mealworms instead of oatmeal and carrots.
  6. No more waxworms.
  7. You mention using Reptivite with D3 2-3x per week. Light dusting? I'd only use that 1x per week. On 1-2 other days I'd lightly dust with a plain calcium carbonate powder. NOW brand calcium carbonate for humans is good and inexpensive. Health foods stores often carry it.
  8. I like these supplements:
    Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3 and
    Zoo Med's plain (no D3) Reptivite.
 
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Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
:)#2---Fecal Sample Collection Procedure
My exotics vet recommends:

1. Place a piece of clean plastic where your leo usually poops. If your gecko poops somewhere else, take the poop to the vet anyway. Some poop is better than no poop! (Thanks to TheOneBlueGecko - 25 July 2011)

2. As soon as your gecko has passed some poop and urates, but without physically touching the sample, place the feces and urates directly onto a clean plastic bottle cap. (Vet has fecal sample containers if you can stop by first.)

3. Then place the bottle cap with fecal sample directly into a plastic ziploc bag. (Do NOT use paper towels or newspaper because those will absorb some of the feces necessary for a proper culture.)

4. Refrigerate this sample...unless you are taking the sample to your vet immediately. Do NOT freeze it.

5. Keep the sample cool enroute to the vet.

6. Take this fecal sample to your vet within 24 hours of collecting...the sooner the better!
 
S

StickyFingers

New member
No worries :)

I took him to the vet on Friday (different vet than the one I saw the last time I had an issue), and we discussed husbandry and his history and whatnot. She said that it could be a parasite, but she wants a poop sample before she gives him anything, because there isn't really a "cure all" dewormer (I guess the dewormers that are out there don't get rid of everything-each different one only gets rid of a few). In the meantime, she wants me to give him soaks to keep him hydrated, and to give him Carnivore Care or an equivalent (I'll be using CC) twice a week, and to keep offering him mealworms, crickets, etc. I am changing his paper towels tonight and will be using the plastic wrap trick so that I can hopefully get her a sample tomorrow morning! I'm not sure how he's still pooping, but he is. He has not eaten ANYTHING in over a week.

I will post a pic in a sec, but to answer your questions:
The cool end temp is 72*. The UTH is on at all times. It is a ZooMed for the 10-20g tanks. I can move the humid hide closer, but due to its size and the size of the warm hide, I can't put them both on the warm side. I'll give up on the waxworms-I was using them just to get him to eat SOMETHING, because he doesn't like much besides mealworms and crickets and the occasional Phoenix worm (he wouldn't touch silkworms or hornworms even when he was eating), and dubia aren't allowed in my house (no matter what I tell my dad, he isn't budging :roll:). As for vitamins, I'm switching to Rep-Cal's Herptivite and Calcium with D3. Just got them in the mail, and will be putting them in with a fresh batch of mealies :)
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Thanks for your speedy reply. :) Sanjay looks to be a good weight right now based upon your photo.

  1. Excellent on the vet visit
  2. Carnivore Care is the best assist food I know
  3. Good on 72 F for the cool end
  4. Your UTH is really too small for an 30 x 12 x 12 enclosure. That way your leo stays glued to the heat mat for ALL warmth. The UTHs that come with adhesive cannot be repositioned because the internal wiring could become damaged when it is removed.
  5. Strongly recommend upgrading to an 11 x 17 inch UTH. Flukers and Ultratherm make that size. Just stick them on with heat resistant aluminum tape that you can buy at a hardware store. That way your leo will be more adventuresome because he will be more comfortable.
  6. Can you return the Herptivite and the Rep Cal calcium with D3?
Herptivite is not recommended because it contains vitamin A in the form of beta carotene which has questionable absorption with lizards.

Rep Cal's calcium with D3 is gray (impurities) and contains more D3 than any other calcium with D3 product on the market! Probably overkill.

Can you get these instead?

Zoo Med's plain (no D3) Reptivite - contains vitamin A acetate
Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3 - contains enough D3 and precipitated calcium carbonate - a purer form
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Some people fuss because Zoo Med's Reptivite contains some phosphorus. These are the reasons I don't fuss.

:) #103---Balancing Zoo Med's no D3 Reptivite multivitamins & ZM's Repti Calcium with D3
Reasons to ONLY use a wee pinch of no D3 Reptivite multivitamins 1x per week + very light dustings of Repti Calcium with D3 about 2x per week. The frequency of supplement dustings also depends upon the diet one feeds the prey 24/7.
  • My vet recommends only a wee pinch of Reptivite multivitamins 1x per week.
  • In my experience, geckos seem to require ONLY a small amount of vitamin A acetate + other vitamins as long as their insects and worms are well fed.
  • Both Reptivite multivitamins (with and without vitamin D3) contain enough phosphorus to make the dusting levels roughly 2 parts calcium : 1 part phosphorus before you even consider the high phosphorus naturally contained in bugs.
  • Phosphorus impairs calcium absorption.
  • Both Zoo Med Repti Calciums are phosphorus-free, so you can lightly dust for D3 without adding phosphorus.
  • Both Reptivite multivitamins contain calcium carbonate. (That's good!)
  • Calcium needs to be taken with food for proper absorption.
  • I focus more on a good dry diet for the bugs and the worms. Consider light dustings of no D3 Reptivite multivitamins and Repti Calcium with D3 as secondary.
  • Some geckos do not much like the taste of Reptivite on their bugs.
 
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S

StickyFingers

New member
So sorry for the delay! The vitamins are in my cart on Amazon and will be ordered asap. Looking in to the larger UTH as well. He still isn't eating :/ I didn't get a chance to get a poop sample, but will definitely be doing that tonight!
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
StickyFingers said:
So sorry for the delay! The vitamins are in my cart on Amazon and will be ordered asap. Looking in to the larger UTH as well. He still isn't eating :/ I didn't get a chance to get a poop sample, but will definitely be doing that tonight!
Click to expand...

Are you ordering the Zoo Med supplements instead?

Amazon carries Flukers and Ultratherm 11 x 17 inch UTHs.

You mention you already have a thermostat. Do you plug the heat mat into it to automatically regulate the temperatures? (Sorry, some keepers get confused between a thermometer and a thermostat.)

Unless you have a local source, consider adding some Zoo Med's Natural Adult Bearded Dragon Food to your order. That's a nearly complete diet for your crickets, dubia, or even the mealworms. Just add a dish of chopped collard greens or pesticide-free dandelion flowers/greens for a great calcium boost to the side for your leo's bugs and worms.
 
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S

StickyFingers

New member
Yep, getting the Zoo Med :) I do plug the UTH into the thermostat. I will add the Adult bearded dragon food to my cart as well! :) Looks like I have a lot to buy!!
 
S

StickyFingers

New member
Still not eating :( I did, however, catch a poop on the plastic wrap today (will throw out, because my vet isn't open today), and it looked very abnormal (see pic). Is this a sign of parasites? I will keep putting the plastic wrap down so I can get one in on Mon or Tues.
IMG_4235.jpg
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
StickyFingers said:
Still not eating :( I did, however, catch a poop on the plastic wrap today (will throw out, because my vet isn't open today), and it looked very abnormal (see pic). Is this a sign of parasites? I will keep putting the plastic wrap down so I can get one in on Mon or Tues.
View attachment 34930
Click to expand...

Good catch! The feces you picture does not look normal. I don't know what the problem is.

Be sure to share this photo with your vet.

StickyFingers said:
Update: He just secreted a watery looking substance on my keyboard. I'm really starting to worry :(
Click to expand...

Parasites are curable. Hope that you catch another good feces sample soon.
 
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S

StickyFingers

New member
Update: I brought a poop sample to the vet yesterday, and apparently it came back negative. The vet is supposed to call me today. I am at a loss as to what is going on... he still isn't eating. He's losing weight. I just don't get it! :(
 
Elizabeth Freer

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
StickyFingers said:
Update: I brought a poop sample to the vet yesterday, and apparently it came back negative. The vet is supposed to call me today. I am at a loss as to what is going on... he still isn't eating. He's losing weight. I just don't get it! :(
Click to expand...

Any news from your vet?

There is a mail order test available for cryptosporidosis which costs about $25. You may wish to call and find out more about it.

Avian Biotech International
800-514-9672
 
S

StickyFingers

New member
My vet gave me a call yesterday, and she is sending me to a veterinary teaching hospital (Tufts, as I live in MA), where they have reptile specialists. They will be able to do more tests, and hopefully find an answer. Giving them a call in a few hours to schedule an appt. I hope it's not crypto :sad:
 
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