Yet another "funny urate" question

muffin_song

New member
Hi all,

I'm not kidding when I say Leopard Gecko Enthusiasts: We Talk About Poop A Lot! :roll:

Scooter's rate of poops has decreased in the last month or so - she gets fed three times a
week, but only poops 1-2 times a week. This week she only pooped once, and once a small part of it was poop (compared to the urate). The tail end of her urates have also been runny (picture attached). She's still eating enthusiastically.

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I'm going to call on Tuesday to see if I can get a vet appointment this week (could someone give me a link again to that "Find a Herp Vet" page?) But in the mean time, I wanted to see if anyone here had any thoughts. I also ordered some horn worms in hopes that they would help get her bowels moving.

I've attached her updated health information sheet below.

Health information:

General Information
Species of lizard: Leopard Gecko
Gecko's name: Scooter
Morph: Normal
Gender: Female
Age: 2.5 years
Weight: 76 grams
Total length: About 7-8 inches
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: Same
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): Previous owner was my mother, who bought her from a non-big box pet store about two years ago
Captive bred or wild caught: Captive bred

[/u]Vivarium[/u]
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth):12x12x30
Cage (type, size): 20 gallon long glass aquarium
Substrate provided: 90% tile, 10% paper towel
Types of hiding places provided: Warm hide, cool hide, moist warm hide, extra turtle log on warm side
Is there a humidity hide? location?: Yes, warm side
Please describe any other furnishings: Fake plants
List recent changes in the environment, if any: Added some new fake plants

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s): None
Fluorescent (tube bulbs):
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: Yes
Note: I live in a studio apartment, meaning if I have the lights on at night, Scooter will see it. I try to reduce the lighting at night and point it away from her cage.

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? Yes
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): I have two Jumpstart Hydrofarm digital probes. The one inside her warm moist side is set to 91, and is connected to the UTH. The other measures her cool side and is connected to a CHE – when the temperature gets below about 72, it turns on.
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 88 to 92ish, depending on when the thermostat turns the heat pad on
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: Not sure, need to get an air thermometer.
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: Room temperature, so 75ish
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): Medium (made for 30-40 gallon tanks) UTH from Reptitherm.
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): I use tile to elevate the corners of the cage
Are you using a thermostat(s)? Yes, one for UTH.
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Mostly in her warm, dry hide. Has been spending most of her time in hides lately, have been blaming it on the weather.
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? No.

Humidity
Is the humidity measured? No, need to get on that!
Humidity range: Unknown

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: Dubias are her staple. I add in meal worms for variety, recently ordered some horn worms.
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms: Dry beardie food, collard greens.
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? For the refrigerated mealworms, I take them out about 12 hours before feeding and put them in a container with turnip greens and oatmeal.

How often do you feed your gecko? Three bugs per feeding, three feedings per week
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often?: ZooMed ReptiCalcium w/D3 once a week. ZooMed Reptivite w/out D3 once every two weeks.

What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? ZooMed ReptiCalcium w/D3
Multivitamins (include brand name)? ZooMed Reptivite w/out D3
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: Due to a mixup with caretaker instructions, she went with minimal food/water for a week about two weeks ago. (Caretaker only stopped by once).

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: The slightly runny urates have been around for maybe several weeks?
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? A little decreased, but I’ve been blaming that on the weather.
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? Normal
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): None
Discharge from the eyes or nose: Nope
Increased breathing rate or effort: no
Change in the droppings: Less frequent, slightly runny urate.
Urates
---white or yellowish: White,
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: Today they were MUCH larger than the feces.
Abnormal skin color or shedding: Some stuck shed two weeks ago, got it off with a Qtip, had a grumpy gecko.
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: no
Weakness: no

Previous problems and/or illnesses: Scooter went through a period about a year ago (while living with her previous owner, my mom) when she was wasn't eating and became very skinny. My mom reexamined the husbandry and gave her something (an antibiotic? Don't remember) with a stopper, and now she's back to having a nice, healthy tail.

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household: Just me
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: None
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): None
Are any of your other pets ill? Nope
 

Moxie

New member
Hey, im no reptile expert but just out of curiosity has your gecko been spending a lot of time in her humid hide? Also how often do you clean the water bowl?
 

muffin_song

New member
*sigh* Of course she um...remedies the problem a day after I make a post. Sometimes I feel like I walk a line between not wanting to be a hypochondriac, and not wanting to be that leo owner who lets something funny go on until it becomes a problem. Another recent post was talking about about pinworms (and how they can cause constipation without an appetite decrease), so I guess I had that on my mind.

Moxie - she hasn't been spending a lot of time in her humid hide lately, but she does have it sprayed regularly. She also gets fresh water every day.

Jess - I was able to order some horn worms online. I'm going to try to incorporate them more regularly into her diet and see if it helps.
 

JessJohnson87

New member
At least it worked it self out. Just keep in mind that hornworms will cause somewhat runny stools because they are packed with moisture. I did also notice urates being slightly bigger when I fed hornworms. Sometimes wax worms can cause funny looking stools, same thing with phoenix worms.
 

muffin_song

New member
Update: I ordered horn worms shortly after posting. Scooter ate a few, which helped her digestion, then refused to eat them. She was however still eating her dubias, so I figured she was being picky.

However Scooter has been on a "hunger strike" for about a week now, eating neither the dubias or butterworms I've offered her. She's pooped once (I think? Maybe twice) during that time, and has produced some more runny urates.

She's still quite active and looks like she's in good spirits. At what point should I take her to the vet? If something is up then I want to catch it sooner rather than later, but I also don't want to pay for the expense if I'm just being paranoid.
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
muffin_song said:
Gecko's name: Scooter
Morph: Normal
Gender: Female
Age: 2.5 years
Weight: 76 grams
Total length: About 7-8 inches

Update: I ordered horn worms shortly after posting. Scooter ate a few, which helped her digestion, then refused to eat them. She was however still eating her dubias, so I figured she was being picky.

However Scooter has been on a "hunger strike" for about a week now, eating neither the dubias or butterworms I've offered her. She's pooped once (I think? Maybe twice) during that time, and has produced some more runny urates.

She's still quite active and looks like she's in good spirits. At what point should I take her to the vet? If something is up then I want to catch it sooner rather than later, but I also don't want to pay for the expense if I'm just being paranoid.

I don't think you need to worry about Scooter being underweight. :) My 11.5 yo female leo weighs 65.5 grams at 9 inches long as of Feb 12. Might you post a picture?

Perhaps it's just a "seasonal slow down" or "ovulating". I don't recall anyone posting with "runny urates".
Your husbandry seems spot on to me. :banana:

How has she been since your update?
 
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muffin_song

New member
Thanks for checking in, Elizabeth! Scooter has eaten about 5 dubias since the last post (thus ending her "food strike"), but her food intake is definitely down. As of last week she was at about 75 grams (down a little from when I first started posting here). It's hard to get her on the scale, but I'll try again.

I've been reading a lot lately about how female leos go off food this time of year, and I wonder if that is the case here? I've attached a few recent pictures:

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Anyway, this is my first year with Scooter, so I'm trying to figure out the balance between not being a watchful owner who doesn't wait until it's too late, and not being overly paranoid at every little sign that something could be wrong! :roll:

Edited to add: I forgot to mention that she's still pretty active and alert. She's also been sleeping in her humid hide (which has sphagnum moss) during the day, which is new. (Then again, I recently turned the hide so it faces away from the window, so that could be the reason).
 
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JessJohnson87

New member
I wouldn't worry about sleeping in the humid hide all the time, mine has done that since I made his "man cave" and I just leave him alone if that floats his boat at this particular time. On the weighing, I put both my guys in a tupperware container and then put them on the scale. Make sure to calibrate the scale with the container first, then add the gecko. Makes it easier because they can't move if they're in a container.
 

muffin_song

New member
Okay, I got her on the scale today, and she came in at 74.5 grams. I checked my old thread again, and somehow that's...up from 69 grams last October??? I don't get it. For the last several months she's gotten three insects per feeding, three times a week (at least when she's on food). Usually dubias, with other stuff thrown in for variety. How can she be gaining weight in comparison to when she lived with my mom and got all the mealworms she could eat????

*sigh* I'm torn between being worried that she's not eating much lately and worried that she's too fat. I also want to invest in something bigger than my pocket scale, as I worry that's not giving me an accurate reading. I can put her in a tupperware container, but she does NOT like standing still and it's hard to get a good read.

For what it's worth, she was really active tonight and crawled right onto my hand :-D
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Okay, I got her on the scale today, and she came in at 74.5 grams. I checked my old thread again, and somehow that's...up from 69 grams last October??? I don't get it. For the last several months she's gotten three insects per feeding, three times a week (at least when she's on food). Usually dubias, with other stuff thrown in for variety. How can she be gaining weight in comparison to when she lived with my mom and got all the mealworms she could eat????

*sigh* I'm torn between being worried that she's not eating much lately and worried that she's too fat. I also want to invest in something bigger than my pocket scale, as I worry that's not giving me an accurate reading. I can put her in a tupperware container, but she does NOT like standing still and it's hard to get a good read.

For what it's worth, she was really active tonight and crawled right onto my hand :-D

You're welcome, muffin_song. About how old is Scooter now? When we age many peoples' metabolisms slow down.

I'm glad that her food strike is over. Some leos do cut back on food over the winter. If there's no weight loss, I would not worry.

However, I think Scooter would be better off about 5 grams lighter at around 70 grams. How about cutting back the size of her feedings to 2 insects per week and eliminating butterworms entirely or only feeding 1 butterworm each week?

With high fat feeders like butterworms or waxworms it's easier to pack on those grams! Weight gain is caused by eating more calories than is needed (whatever the source) and failure to burn them off.

Here's a feeder nutrition chart published by Mark Finke, Ph.D.:
Click: http://www.geckotime.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/table-large.png

Harbor Freight has a pretty accurate digital scales for about $20. Jess just bought one.
 
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JessJohnson87

New member
I have not bought the scale from there yet, I will be getting it next week when the coupons we have are valid for use. Walmart has decent sized kitchen scales between $15-$20.
 

muffin_song

New member
Thanks Elizabeth and Jess!

I believe she's about 2.5 - 3 years old currently - I've had her for about 6 months now. I've also attached some pictures from the day she arrived. You could make the argument she's put on weight since, but she seemed fairly chunky to begin with? :scratchhead:

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I'll go ahead and cut out butterworms entirely (she hasn't been interested anyway), and try at least temporarily reducing her three-times-a-week feedings to only two insects. To be honest she hasn't been eating a ton lately, but hasn't gone off food completely and it seems just seasonal.

I really am enamored by this stupid dork and am trying to do everything as best as I can for her...I mean, just look at this face!!!! :lol:

scooter wink.jpg
 

JessJohnson87

New member
Mine has become a bit chunky, I believe around the 80 gram mark. I feed him twice a week now and make him work for his food that runs. When he's ready to eat, he's gotten to where he will just come out of his man cave to stare at you until you bring him some food and then he goes back into his man cave.
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Thanks Elizabeth and Jess!
......

I'll go ahead and cut out butterworms entirely (she hasn't been interested anyway), and try at least temporarily reducing her three-times-a-week feedings to only two insects. To be honest she hasn't been eating a ton lately, but hasn't gone off food completely and it seems just seasonal.

I really am enamored by this stupid dork and am trying to do everything as best as I can for her...I mean, just look at this face!!!! :lol:

View attachment 38217

What a wink! Did you wink back? :D
 

JessJohnson87

New member
I have a single story house and have hardwood or tile floors. He loves our king sized bed but I had the hiccups so that was making him jumpy and I didn't want him to take the leap of faith to the floor.
 
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