New Leopard Gecko owner: Question about supplement schedule

[Madrigal77]

My wife and I just got a couple of female Leopard Gecko’s about 3 weeks ago. We were told they were 4 years old and had been housed together for a little over a year. They came in a 20 gallon fish tank. We started to do a lot of research once we got them, and discovered the having them housed together is a bad idea.

So we got them each an Exo Terra medium low terrarium with heat mats on a thermostat, dome night heat lights, thermometers with hygrometers, and a cool hide, moist hide, and hot hide. We used tile as substrate, but no one in town would cut it to fit for us, so there is about a 1 inch border around that we put Eco Earth in. The’ve both shed in the last week, and both went perfectly with nothing stuck at all.

We’ve done as much research as we can, and feel like their setups are pretty good, but one thing we still have questions about is their feeding and supplement schedule. There seems to be tons of conflicting info on the subject, so we want to make sure we are doing the right thing.

We’ve been feeding them gutloaded crickets with a calcium/d3 dusting every other day, with one feeding a week with Zoo Med Reptivite without D3. One of them doesn’t seem to like crickets much and will only eat 2 or so of them per feeding, so we just got her a bunch of mealworms and she seems to love them and will eat as many as you put in.

We just want to make sure our feeding/supplement schedule is correct as we want to give these girls the best life possible. I’ve attached some photos of their setups. Any tips are appreciated!

 

[Newbreeder]

Housing 2 females together isnt recommended but they are the most compatible combination. Normally i wouldnt but i rescued 2 females earlier this year which had lived together their whole lives. So i didnt wanna split them up. They cuddle in the moist hide all day. It is really cute! You just have yo supervise them during feeding as thats when mine can get a bit agressive.

I would lose the night light. They dont need a light during the night. Personally i dont use a heat lamp at all. As long as they have their heat mat and proper suppliments they will be fine.


Its great that you have the tile, it is the best you can use and i wouldnt worry about the border.

Sounds like you are doing a great job though!!

And the viv looks great.

One thing i would keep an eye on though. Even though you ssy they have no problem shedding. Keep an eye on their toes. If they have skin stuck on them you wanna give them a sauna bath and take it off with a cotton bud. They can lose toes due to it. They grow back but still better to prevent it.

 

[Newbreeder]

Actually just noticed your schedule. It should be the other way around. They only need vitamin D once a week as they store it in their body. Feed once a week with vitamin D and twice a week with plain calcium.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

We’ve done as much research as we can, and feel like their setups are pretty good, but one thing we still have questions about is their feeding and supplement schedule. There seems to be tons of conflicting info on the subject, so we want to make sure we are doing the right thing.

We’ve been feeding them gutloaded crickets with a calcium/d3 dusting every other day, with one feeding a week with Zoo Med Reptivite without D3. One of them doesn’t seem to like crickets much and will only eat 2 or so of them per feeding, so we just got her a bunch of mealworms and she seems to love them and will eat as many as you put in.

We just want to make sure our feeding/supplement schedule is correct as we want to give these girls the best life possible. I’ve attached some photos of their setups. Any tips are appreciated!

A warm welcome to Geckos Unlimited to you and to both your leos! Their setups look good!

Are their heat mats large enough so that both the warm dry hide and the moist hide sit directly on top? It's important to have the moist hide warmish too, since leos use it for shedding and for staying hydrated (along with their water dishes).

As long as both leos are walking well (not belly dragging) and have no signs of metabolic bone disease (MBD), here's a much better schedule for them. As Newbreeder mentions, calcium with D3 is only necessary at 1 feeding per week. That's because D3 is fat soluble and sticks around in a leo's body for about 1 week. Vitamin D3 is not flushed out when a leo urinates.

I highly recommend Schedule 126 instead of how you're currently dusting. Excess calcium in the digestive tract can hinder absorption of vitamins A and D. There is NO need to keep a dish of plain calcium in the setup 24/7. Please see link 22 in my Leo Care Sheet for more info.

Weekly Schedule 126 for Leopard Geckos 18 months old +​

(without UVB)​

• Crickets or dubia >> Monday - lightly dusted with Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3
• Crickets or dubia >> Thursday - lightly dusted with Zoo Med's ReptiVite multivitamins without D3
• Mealworms >> Saturday - no dusting

For link 126 click: Weekly Feeding & Supplement Schedule 126 for leopard geckos 18 months old +

I feed my insects finely ground Zoo Med's Natural ADULT Bearded Dragon Food. My crickets gobble it up! (It does need to be finely ground, so I use a Krup's coffee/spice grinder.)

Aliza (GU's acpart) uses this already ground dry diet from "Professional Reptiles" for her insect and worm food as well as for her mealworm/superworm bedding.

• Click: 1 lb Pro Gutload - Professional Reptiles
• Click: Food & Water :: Insect Food

Aliza says that "The bedding, obviously, doubles as gutload. When most of the bedding has turned into droppings, I either add some of the original stuff or sift out all the droppings and put in new bedding. This is easier to do with superworms since they're bigger. Sometimes I lose tiny mealworms in the sifting process."

Gutload Ingredients for Bugs & Worms......thanks to Olimpia -- August 2013
"A commercial gut loading food like Bug Burger or Superload (both by Repashy), Cricket Crack, Dinofuel, etc. is going to make your life easier AND provide a nutritious diet to your crickets at the same time. Avoid Fluker's gutloads, as they are super feeble in their formulas."

"If you opt for making your own gutload at home, here is a list of great ingredients to use:
Best: mustard greens, turnip greens, dandelion flowers & leaves, collard greens, escarole lettuce, papaya, watercress, and alfalfa.
Good: sweet potato, carrots, oranges, mango, butternut squash, kale, apples, beet greens, blackberries, bok choy, and green beans.
Dry food: bee pollen, organic non-salted sunflower seeds, spirulina, dried seaweed, flax seed, and organic non-salted almonds.
Avoid as much as possible: potatoes, cabbage, iceberg lettuce, romaine lettuce, spinach, broccoli, tomatoes, corn, grains, beans, oats, bread, cereal, meat, eggs, dog food, cat food, fish food, canned or dead insects, vertebrates."

 

[Madrigal77]

Thanks. It gets pretty cold in our place at night, so that's why I use the night lamps. The temp drops into the low 60's/upper 50's otherwise. This way it stays right at about 80 throughout the day and night.

Their toes/feet were the first thing I checked after they shed as I had read it's the most common problem, and everything was perfect on both of them, so that's great.

So I only need D3 once per week? What about the multivitamins?

 

[Madrigal77]

A warm welcome to Geckos Unlimited to you and to both your leos! Their setups look good!

Is your heat mat large enough so that both the warm dry hide and the moist hide sit directly on top of it? It's important to have the moist hide warmish too, since leos use it for shedding and for staying hydrated (along with their water dishes).

As long as both leos are walking well (not belly dragging) and have no signs of metabolic bone disease (MBD), here's a much better schedule for them. As Newbreeder mentions, calcium with D3 is only necessary at 1 feeding per week. That's because D3 is fat soluble and sticks around in a leo's body for about 1 week. Vitamin D3 is not flushed out when a leo urinates.

I highly recommend Schedule 126 instead of how you're currently dusting. Excess calcium in the digestive tract can hinder absorption of vitamins A and D. There is NO need to keep a dish of plain calcium in the setup 24/7. Please see link 22 in my Leo Care Sheet for more info.



For link 126 click: Weekly Feeding & Supplement Schedule 126 for leopard geckos 18 months old +

I feed my insects finely ground Zoo Med's Natural ADULT Bearded Dragon Food. My crickets gobble it up! (It does need to be finely ground, so I use a Krup's coffee/spice grinder.)

Aliza (GU's acpart) uses this already ground dry diet from "Professional Reptiles" for her insect and worm food as well as for her mealworm/superworm bedding.

Aliza says that "The bedding, obviously, doubles as gutload. When most of the bedding has turned into droppings, I either add some of the original stuff or sift out all the droppings and put in new bedding. This is easier to do with superworms since they're bigger. Sometimes I lose tiny mealworms in the sifting process."

• Click: 1 lb Pro Gutload - Professional Reptiles
• Click: Food & Water :: Insect Food

Gutload Ingredients for Bugs & Worms......thanks to Olimpia -- August 2013
"A commercial gut loading food like Bug Burger or Superload (both by Repashy), Cricket Crack, Dinofuel, etc. is going to make your life easier AND provide a nutritious diet to your crickets at the same time. Avoid Fluker's gutloads, as they are super feeble in their formulas."

Thank you so much for all the info. I'll look into that bearded dragon food for gutloading. We are currently using the flukers orange and fresh yams, cucumber, and lettuce. Their moist hides are a little under half on the warm side. They are the big grey rock looking things in the middle of the photos.We have Zoo Med UTH rated for 30-40 gallons for both of them

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thanks. It gets pretty cold in our place at night, so that's why I use the night lamps. The temp drops into the low 60's/upper 50's otherwise. This way it stays right at about 80 throughout the day and night.

Their toes/feet were the first thing I checked after they shed as I had read it's the most common problem, and everything was perfect on both of them, so that's great.

So I only need D3 once per week? What about the multivitamins?

You're welcome. I was editing while you posted.

Zoo Med's Reptivite multivitamins are included in Schedule 126.

Yes, use Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3 lightly dusted on all the feeders @ 1 feeding per week. I hope that's the brand you're using. It contains a generous amount of plain calcium carbonate.

Keeping overhead heat is fine. I recommend a ceramic heat emitter (CHE).

Temperatures - A temperature gradient from warm to cool maintains your leo's health. Here's a temperature guide for all leopard geckos as measured with the probe of a digital thermometer or a temp gun (and controlled by a thermostat set at 91*F/32.8*C):

• Warm end ground temperature: 88-92 F (31.1-33.3 C) underneath a leo's warm dry hide
• Cool end ground temperature: 70ish-75 F (21.1-23.9 C) Usually the cool end ground temperature matches the room temperature where the enclosure sits.
• no greater than 82ish F (27.8ish C) air temperature - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
• no greater than 75 F (23.9 C) air temperature - 4 inches above ground on the cool end

Leave the heat mat/UTH on 24/7. If you wish, during the night turn off overhead lighting/heating (~12 hours on and ~12 hours off) unless ambient room temperatures drop lower than 67ish*F (19.4*C).

 

[Madrigal77]

We are using the Flukers calcium with D3. It came with them when we got them. It's mostly used though, so once it's out, we will switch to the Zoo Med. What do you think of the Repashy Calcium Plus? I keep reading great things about it.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

It's OK to use Fluker's till it expires. Then switch to Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3.

For link 24 click: Calcium powders with D3: Zoo Med, Rep-Cal, Fluker, Exo Terra, + others​

Many keepers like Repashy's Calcium Plus. I prefer Zoo Med's supplements.


Repashy Calcium Plus Schedules 144:
Oftentimes experienced keepers and breeders tweak supplements more than the manufacturer suggests based upon the health of their leopard geckos.

Powdered supplements stick to crickets and to dubia better than they do to mealworms or to superworms.

Here's the Repashy's Calcium Plus (all-in-one) multivitamins schedule that GU's acpart (Aliza Arzt) has used for all her leopard geckos ----> breeders and non-breeders. You'll need 2 different powders.

-----> February 2019 -- "I've been using an 'every other' feeding schedule with Repashy's Calcium Plus since 2009. Adults get fed Mondays and Thursdays. They get Repashy on Thursdays.

"I fed juveniles and hatchlings 3 times a week. (They would be getting mealworms so there would always be some in their bowls.) For juveniles I'd dust with Repashy's Calcium Plus at every other feeding. For hatchlings 0-2 months old & any slow-growing leopard geckos under ~6 grams, I would also dust every other feeding in addition to keeping plain calcium in the cage 24/7."

Aliza

Repashy's Calcium Plus (all-in-one) multivitamins
(without UVB)​

1. Feeding & Supplementing HATCHLING leopard geckos - 0-2 months old & any slow-growing leopard geckos under ~6 grams ~ Feed 3x per week.

• Feed Tuesdays, Thursdays, & Saturdays
• Dust prey with Repashy's Calcium Plus at every other feeding
• ALSO: Keep a bottle cap of plain calcium in the cage 24/7.
• [See dusting chart below]

2. Feeding & Supplementing JUVENILE leopard geckos ~ Feed 3x per week.

• Feed Tuesdays, Thursdays, & Saturdays
• Dust prey with Repashy's Calcium Plus at every other feeding
• [See dusting chart below]

3. Feeding & Supplementing ADULT leopard geckos ~ Feed 2x per week.

• Mondays ~ feed (no dusting)
• Thursdays ~ feed & dust prey with Repashy's Calcium Plus (all in one) multivitamins

\/ \/ \/


R = Repashy's Calcium Plus, Cc = pure precipitated calcium carbonate (without vitamin D3)

Week 1 Repashy dusting (for JUVENILES & HATCHLINGS):
M-------T-------W------Th-------F-------Sat-------Sun
............R...........................................R...................


Week 2 Repashy dusting (for JUVENILES & HATCHLINGS):
M-------T-------W------Th-------F-------Sat-------Sun
..................................R..........................................​

-----> For hatchlings 0-2 months old & any slow-growing leopard geckos under ~6 grams: Aliza also places a bottle cap of pure precipitated calcium carbonate (without vitamin D3) in the cage 24/7.

 

[Madrigal77]

So if I use the Repashy, I don't need any other suppliments?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thank you so much for all the info. I'll look into that bearded dragon food for gutloading. We are currently using the flukers orange and fresh yams, cucumber, and lettuce. Their moist hides are a little under half on the warm side. They are the big grey rock looking things in the middle of the photos.We have Zoo Med UTH rated for 30-40 gallons for both of them

You're most welcome! Here's the beardie food I buy. Fluker's orange cubes contain scarcely any protein. I suggest ~16% protein.

(click to enlarge)​

So if I use the Repashy, I don't need any other suppliments?

That's correct according to Aliza's methods.

I feel Zoo Med's formula has the "perfect amount" of D3. Compare multivitamins on this link.

For link 77 click: Gecko Multivitamins​

 

[Madrigal77]

Thanks a lot for all your helpful info. I have one last question. One of them doesn’t seem to like crickets. I can get her to eat at most 2-3. She loves mealworms though and will eat just about as many as you can give her. Will the mealworms eat that bearded dragon food?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thanks a lot for all your helpful info. I have one last question. One of them doesn’t seem to like crickets. I can get her to eat at most 2-3. She loves mealworms though and will eat just about as many as you can give her. Will the mealworms eat that bearded dragon food?

You're welcome.

Mealworms might eat that beardie food. Try and see. What bedding are you keeping mealworms on? I don't usually keep mealworms.

 

[Madrigal77]

I just have them on whatever they came with from the pet store. It looks like wood shavings, but I'm pretty sure it's some kind of bran/oats or something like that.

 

[Marillion]

I just have them on whatever they came with from the pet store. It looks like wood shavings, but I'm pretty sure it's some kind of bran/oats or something like that.

You'll want to get away from using the bran/oat substrate they came in. Very high in Phosphorous which will inhibit your Leo's calcium absorption. I am going through a search right now myself trying to find the best substrate to use for mealworms. See my thread in this forum.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

You'll want to get away from using the bran/oat substrate they came in. Very high in Phosphorous which will inhibit your Leo's calcium absorption. I am going through a search right now myself trying to find the best substrate to use for mealworms. See my thread in this forum.

Your mealworms may be packed in wood shavings.

Here's Marillion's thread on mealworm substrate.

Click: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-corn-meal-mealworm-substrate.html#post493479​

Here's the scoop on mealworm substrate from my leo care sheet.

For link 98 click: Common Mealworm & Superworm Dry Diets & Beddings -- Use something else!​

 

[Madrigal77]

Thanks for all your help. Since I've already ordered the bearded dragon food for my crickets, I think I'll try it as a substrate for the mealworms. I'll let you know how it goes!

 

[Madrigal77]

I wonder if an algae based fish food would work as a good gutload. I’ve been using it with my fish for years, and it has very high quality ingredients:

Algae; Chlorella, Ulva Seaweed, Red Seaweed, Kelp, Spirulina, Wakame Seaweed, Whole Antarctic Krill, Whole Fish, Eucheuma cottonii, Spinosum Seaweed, Chondrus crispus, Whole Wheat Flour, Omega-3 Fish Oil, Alfalfa, Astaxanthin, Capsanthin, Zeaxanthin, Vita

32% Protein
5% Fat
10% Fiber
10% Moisture
9% Ash

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thanks for all your help. Since I've already ordered the bearded dragon food for my crickets, I think I'll try it as a substrate for the mealworms. I'll let you know how it goes!

Excellent! Just update this thread.

I wonder if an algae based fish food would work as a good gutload. I’ve been using it with my fish for years, and it has very high quality ingredients:

Fish food contains too much protein for geckos. A fish food diet for bugs and worms will lead to significant health issues in your gecko.

Keep protein levels about 16-20%.

 

[Madrigal77]

I tried the bearded dragon food as a substrate for the mealworms, and they were all still alive after a few days, so I guess that’s a good sign?