VERY TERRIBLE NEWS!!! PLEASE READ!!
- Thread starter smallskiluv-tha-rhaco
- Start date
Calfirecap
New member
The comments about dealing with the cats are categorized as "Gallows humor". Several people here understand it, appreciate it, and even speak it. One person here didn't comprehend it, was terribly offended and resorted to name calling. Bowfinger and heiser were both dead on with their take of the messages and the underlying problem of people not taking responsibility for their pets. Domestic cats are great indoor pets and they are also very effective predators, which makes them very dangerous to native wildlife. I use to see Alligator lizards in my yard nearly every day, but since at least three cats have moved into the neighborhood just within the last couple of years, sightings have become increasingly rare. The native birds have also taken a hit. The problem here lies in the humans who allow or even encourage this to occur, and we shouldn't support groups that capture, fix, then release domestic cats into the wild. This is NOT cat hateing, it's native wildlife appreciation.
heiser said:
um, there are such things as feral cats. it's not always somebody's fault. i'm not saying it's great for the environment, but these feral cats ARE now a part of the environment. besides, i'm sure a raccoon or other animal is capable of doing the same destruction to the cages. i don't think the cat is more important than the gecko, i didn't say this. the cat acted upon its instincts just like 99% of all other animals. how is "euthanizing" it going to do any good? we (humans) caused this problem by introducing foreign species so we solve it by "euthanizing" them? pretty disgusting and sick way to solve a problem..
i don't really care what you think of me "name calling". even if it was a joke it was pretty much the opposite of funny. i am not going to pity this dude for taking poor care of his pets when its the geckos that suffered. they aren't objects.
Calfirecap said:
it's hard to tell if something is a joke when it doesn't resemble humor. just to remind you, his geckos are not native wildlife. if you were really concerned about conserving native wildlife, then i'm sure you know there are much better ways than euthanizing street cats. like i said, i realize that it is bad for the environment when we introduce species to new environments but its not the animals we should be blaming, it's us humans...and i really think there are more clever and ethical ways of solving these problems.
heiser
New member
It is not "unethical" to euthanize an animal. It may in fact be quite ethical. A suffering animal should be allowed to suffer rather than euthanize it? Of course not. Don't confuse ethics with getting what you want or someone doing something you don't like. (Disco dancing is not unethical).
To me it is unethical to allow domestic or feral domestic cats to wipe out local fauna. There are cases of feral animals doing little harm (i.e., accidental introduction of ruin lizards on Long Island) and it may be argued there is no ethical reason to remove or eliminate them. However, how could one ever consider it "ethical" to allow the brown tree snake to inhabit Hawaii. Hawaii does every thing it can to keep them out and I guarantee they euthanize any found. Look at what the brown tree snake has done to Guam. Is it right to say well they are there now so it's OK?
Cats destroy much local wildlife, particularly songbirds and lizards. To be honest, I have fewer problems with feral domestic cats eating birds, as they at least eat them. You have no idea how many birds die (but are not eaten) in my backyard from local pets and a "kind" old woman feeding strays. Like people, cats kill for sport and kill way too many birds. It is unethical to allow all those birds die just because you (well all mankind) some how released cats into the wrong environment. You trade the lives of a few cats for hundreds of birds? Not ethical. You just don't want the cats killed, period. I see it that every stray cat brought to the pound saves a few dozen birds. If you don't want the cats euthanized just adopt them all and keep them indoors. Oh, that's right...nobody wants all those cats (or dogs, let us not forget the thousands of dogs put to sleep each year). To be ethical, you need to take care of your pet without harming the natural balance (my opinion). Cruelty is unethical, humane euthanization may be the only ethical choice.
It is unethical to not accept the responsibility of having created an enormous problem (not as big as global warming, but still rather annoying). Mankind created all these strays and we have a responsibility to the environment and the natural fauna to protect it from our past and present aggressions. To simply say they are there now, too bad is in my opinion terribly unethical. If I could round up all the cats (and dogs, we loss quite a few deer each year to dog packs) and adopt them all out I would be most happy. That would be a perfect solution. But, if I could round them all up and no one would adopt them, I would not lose sleep over their being euthanized. I would see it as a better, more ethical solution than euthanizing (via cat or dog) large numbers of our native wildlife.
Don't hide behind an agument that when a cat kills a bird it is "natural". That is major BS. Adding cats into the mix was a man-made problem. I don't see dog fights as "natural", I see them as cruel. I don't see cats killing birds as natural, I see it as an assault on the environment. Just because the hand of man is not directly involved in killing the bird does not make it "natural".
Nathan...if you are reading this, I apologize. This is not the correct forum for this and me being a mod for the aussies should know better. But, I had to do it. It is too near and dear to me. Dog and cat lovers seem to have much compassion for cats and dogs but, not so much for the carnage left in their wake. I have a small dog and had a cat...none ended up as strays ; ) [The cat was a stray I took in] I am sorry...really, I am sorry....stop staring at me.....OK, Ok, I will send you some mourning geckos to make up. Geez, Nathan you are one tough moderator.
To me it is unethical to allow domestic or feral domestic cats to wipe out local fauna. There are cases of feral animals doing little harm (i.e., accidental introduction of ruin lizards on Long Island) and it may be argued there is no ethical reason to remove or eliminate them. However, how could one ever consider it "ethical" to allow the brown tree snake to inhabit Hawaii. Hawaii does every thing it can to keep them out and I guarantee they euthanize any found. Look at what the brown tree snake has done to Guam. Is it right to say well they are there now so it's OK?
Cats destroy much local wildlife, particularly songbirds and lizards. To be honest, I have fewer problems with feral domestic cats eating birds, as they at least eat them. You have no idea how many birds die (but are not eaten) in my backyard from local pets and a "kind" old woman feeding strays. Like people, cats kill for sport and kill way too many birds. It is unethical to allow all those birds die just because you (well all mankind) some how released cats into the wrong environment. You trade the lives of a few cats for hundreds of birds? Not ethical. You just don't want the cats killed, period. I see it that every stray cat brought to the pound saves a few dozen birds. If you don't want the cats euthanized just adopt them all and keep them indoors. Oh, that's right...nobody wants all those cats (or dogs, let us not forget the thousands of dogs put to sleep each year). To be ethical, you need to take care of your pet without harming the natural balance (my opinion). Cruelty is unethical, humane euthanization may be the only ethical choice.
It is unethical to not accept the responsibility of having created an enormous problem (not as big as global warming, but still rather annoying). Mankind created all these strays and we have a responsibility to the environment and the natural fauna to protect it from our past and present aggressions. To simply say they are there now, too bad is in my opinion terribly unethical. If I could round up all the cats (and dogs, we loss quite a few deer each year to dog packs) and adopt them all out I would be most happy. That would be a perfect solution. But, if I could round them all up and no one would adopt them, I would not lose sleep over their being euthanized. I would see it as a better, more ethical solution than euthanizing (via cat or dog) large numbers of our native wildlife.
Don't hide behind an agument that when a cat kills a bird it is "natural". That is major BS. Adding cats into the mix was a man-made problem. I don't see dog fights as "natural", I see them as cruel. I don't see cats killing birds as natural, I see it as an assault on the environment. Just because the hand of man is not directly involved in killing the bird does not make it "natural".
Nathan...if you are reading this, I apologize. This is not the correct forum for this and me being a mod for the aussies should know better. But, I had to do it. It is too near and dear to me. Dog and cat lovers seem to have much compassion for cats and dogs but, not so much for the carnage left in their wake. I have a small dog and had a cat...none ended up as strays ; ) [The cat was a stray I took in] I am sorry...really, I am sorry....stop staring at me.....OK, Ok, I will send you some mourning geckos to make up. Geez, Nathan you are one tough moderator.
heiser said:
please don't accuse me of showing favoritism towards cats, that couldn't be further from the truth. i try to see every animal as equal (including humans) and just because a cat may kill 12 birds doesn't mean that i think that one cat equals 12 birds. please realize that i don't completely disagree with you. i do, however, think that the euthanizing of animals (any animal) to remedy situations caused my us is really depressing and a sign of how much we have messed up the earth. i still absolutely do not agree with it because i don't see us as an authority when it comes to life and death. might as well just start killing off the poor, huh.. i think that you are taking a very black and white stance on this and it's obvious that we have differing opinions when it comes to these matters, which is okay...but i don't think it's BS to say that cats killing animals is natural. what is natural is a very gray area. maybe we should just annihilate the human race. i still don't completely know what to think about the subject and i think it's the human element that is driving me nuts.
heiser
New member
Finally, I can agree with you completely. This is a far cry from unethical, which was my point and is a more thoughtful answer.
This I see as mostly the difference in our opinions. While we are not the authority on it, we are pretty good at it. :roll: We are however, responsible for creating the situation and I believe undoing the damage. It is regretful the cats and dogs may suffer euthanizing, but it is equally regretful that the birds and others suffer because we thoughtlessly released the cats and dogs. I believe we need to do that which is uncorfortable to remedy that which we screwed up. BUT...I respect your opinion and feelings.
Don't they have enough problems without being brought into an arguement that they have nothing to do with? You didn't think this one through before putting pen to paper....this is not a connected arguement. Two completely seperate issues.
Your most thoughtful response yet. When you have it all figured out let the rest of us know...we would like to understand it as well.
Warm Regards,
John
Riverside Reptiles
Administrator (HMFIC)
How much for 1.1 wc felines?
Moving this over to "off topic" since it really doesn't seem to have much to do with selling anything. If you really want to sell your cresteds, I suggest posting a regular "For Sale" ad without all the added story.
Moving this over to "off topic" since it really doesn't seem to have much to do with selling anything. If you really want to sell your cresteds, I suggest posting a regular "For Sale" ad without all the added story.