Allee Toler
Member
This is Lyle. His green's not showing up on the camera too well.
Early morning delivery. :)
- Thread starter Allee Toler
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zombiecakes
New member
Gorgeous! What morph is he if he has green?
MauricesExoticPets
New member
Emerald or emerine.
Maurice Pudlo
Maurice Pudlo
Allee Toler
Member
Incorrect.
Green is caused from a combination of lavender and tangerine. Anyone can create a green animal when working with a strong lavender line and strong tangerine line. Just because there's green it doesn't automatically make it an Emerald, or from the Emerines.
For now, we'll just call him Lyle.
Allee Toler
Member
I recently sold a very similar gecko to one of my friends, Ken. This is her photo (in shed):
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/community/leopard-geckos-other-eublepharis/44668-green.html
Now that I have this male who's identical to her, I can have two projects going at once with two different genetic groups. They both also have no hets.
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/community/leopard-geckos-other-eublepharis/44668-green.html
Now that I have this male who's identical to her, I can have two projects going at once with two different genetic groups. They both also have no hets.
MauricesExoticPets
New member
Sure, just about anything can be line bred or combination bred into Leos nowadays. They are pretty much like a few hundred buckets of paint, mix and match in any of a zillion combinations to get the color size and pattern you desire.
Genetic morphs with green though are not line bred, or combination morphs. Genetic morphs that express green coloration are Emerald line geckos though.
I should have been more clear.
Maurice Pudlo
Genetic morphs with green though are not line bred, or combination morphs. Genetic morphs that express green coloration are Emerald line geckos though.
I should have been more clear.
Maurice Pudlo
Allee Toler
Member
You were short in your answer and stated he's either an Emerine or an Emerald when you didn't know his background (he's neither, he's a cross of two non-green geckos/lines). I was clarifying that he isn't. A green gecko isn't by default an Emerald or Emerine.
I know his background, he didn't come from any green. Neither did Lydia.
"Genetic morphs with green though are not line bred, or combination morphs. Genetic morphs that express green coloration are Emerald line geckos though."
As far as I understood it. Emerine is Tremper's "Emerald" line. A line. Meaning they're line bred. According to your above quote, that would make them a genetic morph, not a line. When Emerine is a line.
Bold section: How can that be? You can create a green gecko from scratch. Just like I did with Lydia and just like I did with Lyle. I repeat myself, just because you have a green gecko doesn't mean they're by default an Emerald.
Anyone can make a green gecko. It just takes basic genetic know how and it's not fair to those who work hard to create a color because of color combining to lump them into a group that they're totally unrelated to.
Lavender Stripe x Tangerine Stripe x Red Stripe = Lyle and Lydia.
I know his background, he didn't come from any green. Neither did Lydia.
"Genetic morphs with green though are not line bred, or combination morphs. Genetic morphs that express green coloration are Emerald line geckos though."
As far as I understood it. Emerine is Tremper's "Emerald" line. A line. Meaning they're line bred. According to your above quote, that would make them a genetic morph, not a line. When Emerine is a line.
Bold section: How can that be? You can create a green gecko from scratch. Just like I did with Lydia and just like I did with Lyle. I repeat myself, just because you have a green gecko doesn't mean they're by default an Emerald.
Anyone can make a green gecko. It just takes basic genetic know how and it's not fair to those who work hard to create a color because of color combining to lump them into a group that they're totally unrelated to.
Lavender Stripe x Tangerine Stripe x Red Stripe = Lyle and Lydia.
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MauricesExoticPets
New member
Line, because the founding genetic morph was crossed by Tremper into a variety of his other morphs, creating a line of morphs.
The founding morph was not selectively bred generation upon generation to bring out more and more green.
I don't bother with Leos nearly as much as I used to, and your right I jumped in without knowing the geckos background, I'm truly sorry about that.
So without further delay, nice looking Leo you have there. Do you expect to improve the green coloration, if so what would be your goal?
Maurice Pudlo
The founding morph was not selectively bred generation upon generation to bring out more and more green.
I don't bother with Leos nearly as much as I used to, and your right I jumped in without knowing the geckos background, I'm truly sorry about that.
So without further delay, nice looking Leo you have there. Do you expect to improve the green coloration, if so what would be your goal?
Maurice Pudlo
Allee Toler
Member
If you read it as rude, my apologies. I'm just a very blunt to the point person. I was asking questions because I was confused by your contradicting statements.
To have a gecko that's not from any line at all (Not from Tremper's or even related to Emerines or Emeralds) doesn't make them part of that line just because they look the same. I have personal opinions of Tremper, and I won't post them publicly. To be blunt, I don't listen to anything he has to say as regards to genetics or his lines since he sells animals as het tangerine and het emerine, then turns around and says it's impossible to have animals het for tangerine or emerine. If you bred an Emerine x Normal, you'd get crosses. Not Normals het Emerine... He denies his own reasoning just for sales. Kudos to him for being able to dupe people into marketing ploys. /rant
My goal with the gecko is to breed in Eclipse. Since I have Lydia breeding with an Emerine cross I'll have more green to work with on her end. Over time I plan on breeding out the Emerine bloodline since the babies will only be 25% Emerine line. Once I get the visual I want with her project (green, nice stripe, white legs- which she has), I'll be breeding her to the product from Lyle's project, which is a visual Eclipse of what he looks like. It'll take time, but I'm a patient person. I'm starting off with unrelated animals, with no hets. Eventually I plan on breeding Rainwater into it since I have a Mack Snow Stripe Typhoon project going. Might as well add some color into it.
To have a gecko that's not from any line at all (Not from Tremper's or even related to Emerines or Emeralds) doesn't make them part of that line just because they look the same. I have personal opinions of Tremper, and I won't post them publicly. To be blunt, I don't listen to anything he has to say as regards to genetics or his lines since he sells animals as het tangerine and het emerine, then turns around and says it's impossible to have animals het for tangerine or emerine. If you bred an Emerine x Normal, you'd get crosses. Not Normals het Emerine... He denies his own reasoning just for sales. Kudos to him for being able to dupe people into marketing ploys. /rant
My goal with the gecko is to breed in Eclipse. Since I have Lydia breeding with an Emerine cross I'll have more green to work with on her end. Over time I plan on breeding out the Emerine bloodline since the babies will only be 25% Emerine line. Once I get the visual I want with her project (green, nice stripe, white legs- which she has), I'll be breeding her to the product from Lyle's project, which is a visual Eclipse of what he looks like. It'll take time, but I'm a patient person. I'm starting off with unrelated animals, with no hets. Eventually I plan on breeding Rainwater into it since I have a Mack Snow Stripe Typhoon project going. Might as well add some color into it.
MauricesExoticPets
New member
No I don't see it as rude at all, I'm simply going on available information to me.
I likely agree with you on some of Ron's marketing ploys, I very much don't like his feeding practices.
I find it unfortunate that one can't trust as often as one would like.
My only serious Leo breeding project has been the highly questioned triple homozygous albino project. Which tends to get folks mighty riled up.
Other than that I like normal leopard geckos and mostly enjoy breeding the morphs out of them rather than into them. That in and of itself is fun for me.
Het for nothing is just about as hard to come by these days as het for dinosaur, figuratively speaking of course.
Its pretty hard to offend me, and of all the people I know my wife is the most litteral cut to the chase person out there. I respect being direct and to the point.
Interestingly enough, if Ron's line of emerald Leos is nothing special and distinct from any other green gecko, then would my original not stand?
That's just a thought, and I'm only going there based on the level of marketing hoopla surrounding the morph name and how it is potentially nothing more than a keen cross.
Maurice Pudlo
I likely agree with you on some of Ron's marketing ploys, I very much don't like his feeding practices.
I find it unfortunate that one can't trust as often as one would like.
My only serious Leo breeding project has been the highly questioned triple homozygous albino project. Which tends to get folks mighty riled up.
Other than that I like normal leopard geckos and mostly enjoy breeding the morphs out of them rather than into them. That in and of itself is fun for me.
Het for nothing is just about as hard to come by these days as het for dinosaur, figuratively speaking of course.
Its pretty hard to offend me, and of all the people I know my wife is the most litteral cut to the chase person out there. I respect being direct and to the point.
Interestingly enough, if Ron's line of emerald Leos is nothing special and distinct from any other green gecko, then would my original not stand?
That's just a thought, and I'm only going there based on the level of marketing hoopla surrounding the morph name and how it is potentially nothing more than a keen cross.
Maurice Pudlo
Allee Toler
Member
Like anything, the first to create something jumps at it and markets it as theirs. I don't think green is anything special... It's simply the blending of lavender and orange. Anyone who wants a green gecko can breed an orange gecko to a lavender and get some variation of green. He did that, and line bred it. Called the line he bred Emerines, and called "dibs" on green geckos by calling them Emeralds (though "Emeralds" could be product of any morph combination).
Like all orange geckos are Tangerines. He states all green geckos are Emeralds. But does that make an Eclipse who's orange, a tangerine? Does that make a rainwater with some varying orange a tangerine? No it doesn't. At least not to me. Green can also be a byproduct of outcrossing certain morphs. Does that mean any gecko that pops out of any pair (Lyle and Lydia were one of like 20 hatchlings from the pairs, and were the only two to come out like they did with green) with any slight green has to be automatically dubbed Emerald? That's why it rubs my the wrong way... You can't put a label on something you have had no influence on. No one has that entitlement. Green is what happens. It just happens. It happens in colors. In lighting. In everything. Orange + Purple has always made green. To claim something that's obvious, and not guaranteed as a morph (Emerald) is just stupid to me. These two are not Emeralds. I will call them by what they are. They're Lavender Stripe x Tangerine Stripe x Red Stripe. Do you see Emerald in there? Or Emerine? No.
But I can rant all day. Lol.
Like all orange geckos are Tangerines. He states all green geckos are Emeralds. But does that make an Eclipse who's orange, a tangerine? Does that make a rainwater with some varying orange a tangerine? No it doesn't. At least not to me. Green can also be a byproduct of outcrossing certain morphs. Does that mean any gecko that pops out of any pair (Lyle and Lydia were one of like 20 hatchlings from the pairs, and were the only two to come out like they did with green) with any slight green has to be automatically dubbed Emerald? That's why it rubs my the wrong way... You can't put a label on something you have had no influence on. No one has that entitlement. Green is what happens. It just happens. It happens in colors. In lighting. In everything. Orange + Purple has always made green. To claim something that's obvious, and not guaranteed as a morph (Emerald) is just stupid to me. These two are not Emeralds. I will call them by what they are. They're Lavender Stripe x Tangerine Stripe x Red Stripe. Do you see Emerald in there? Or Emerine? No.
But I can rant all day. Lol.
richardrojas
New member
It is not to hijack your thread but is just to showed a red stripe/emerine/lavender cross, I know that he is emerine because came from JMG line which he works with emerines. That is like TUG's snow, Tornado Tangerine, Phantoms, Black Pearls, Black Velvets, etc. All of these are line breed geckos nothing else. Is like saying that some people have blonde hair, but really what color is blonde, Yellowish? Now here is the gecko
BTW you have a nice green looking gecko!!!!
BTW you have a nice green looking gecko!!!!