I saw two young female white and yellows this weekend at a show. I thought they were really remarkable looking animals! One had a cool "halo" of blue/lavender/green and orange on its head and the other had more of a spotting pattern of the same colors on a nice tangerine body. But its happened before, I see a really cool looking juvy, buy it and have it develop into a nice (but average) looking adult even before breeding season further washes the color away. So, since there are so many Europeans on here (who have had the morph for longer and where its more widespread from what I understand), what do folks think of these? From what I could gather from reading and talking to the breeder its a straight dominant trait, not same as Enigma at all but some overlap in the appearance of the animals carrying the trait.
What do you all think of the White and Yellow Morph?
- Thread starter meisen
- Start date
richardrojas
New member
Hi Meisen
After you told me about this morph I start researching about it. Here is a link to a good thread about them, http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...ther-eublepharis/26924-super-eublepharis.html .
After you told me about this morph I start researching about it. Here is a link to a good thread about them, http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...ther-eublepharis/26924-super-eublepharis.html .
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Our projects : Eublepharis macularius W&Y line | sprept.com
All information about this morph on this site
All information about this morph on this site
richardrojas
New member
MellowMan24
New member
i would watch what people call W&Y, when i bought my male he was marked as a calico (another name for W&Y) and he clearly doesnt look like one, tho i would love to get a W&Y to breed with him to see what turns up.
this is a pic of him when i got him and then now
this is a pic of him when i got him and then now
Hmmm yeah Mellowman24, I agree, that doesnt look like most of what I am seeing as W&Y. But then again, its pretty clear that with all the outcrossing thats been done with the morph that there are going to be lots of different looking animals with the genetics out there. Yours looks enigma but for the eyes.....
I am liking them more and more though, now to find one domestically at a reasonable price
I am liking them more and more though, now to find one domestically at a reasonable price
Allee Toler
Member
You need Matt to reply to this (SaSobek). He's one of the few in the U.S. who's done extensive work with them. If I remember correctly he just wrote up an article on the Wiki... Let me find it.
Found it!
White and Yellow - Leopard Gecko Wiki
Found it!
White and Yellow - Leopard Gecko Wiki
MellowMan24
New member
I saw your animal on fauna and its really cool looking. But....
Do you have white and yellow genetics in your collection at all? From what I can tell there are very few in the US with them so unless you actively got the genetics at some point....it might be a stretch to call it W&Y. At the prices I see them going for in the USDM, its unlikely that you accidentally got one I would think. Are any of your animals from JMG?
As I am sure you are realizing with this animal, it really pays to try and keep precise records. Memory is a fleeting thing and it only gets worse as you get older lol. I have kicked myself a dozen times over the years for not writing down and planning out every little thing I do breeding-wise.
pigslayer
New member
i have a few geckos from jmg,none of them ive bred yet,and i didnt buy this guy i hatched him out. W/Ys he looks identical to,does that mean he is a W/Y i guess not,if anyone has any guesses or suggestions of what he might be shoot but im really glad i have him in my collection
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Allee Toler
Member
He just looks like a red stripe cross. He's not a W/Y. If you did not purchase a W/Y pair, bred them, and hatched that out, then you do not have a W/Y. He's a very pretty gecko, just not a w/y.
Allee Toler
Member
List all of your females who laid eggs. Just because he looks like a red stripe cross doesn't mean he is. I'd need a list of females who laid eggs to help figure out who his mommy is.
And make your own thread so we can stop hijacking this one. Sorry, OP.
1. Everyone seems to say something different about the genetics...they are line bred, they are co-dom, they are recessive, they are none of the above. What's your experience?
2. What traits do they tend to hold? White front legs and sides? Dorsal Stripe? "HAlo" around the head? Are these expressed in all crosses or only W&Y X W&Y?
3. Any downsides to working with them?
also sending pm
SaSobek
Member
I posted this on another forum a few months back i will work on adding to this i have some more info that will help out
The w/y well all I know so far is this.
This was the first time that I saw the w/y
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...ther-eublepharis/26924-super-eublepharis.html
In this thread this is what Sergey and Raisa Prohorchik (the first to produce the W/Y) said about the W/Y.
After seeing these I thought that is where the enigma had to have come from. Also with anything weird that might be genetic I had to have them. I did a little calling around and asking people some questions. The first question was where did the enigmas come from? I did get a hold of some people from Reptile Industries. It is said from people that work there that the enigma was bought not hatched and that it “appeared” in the collection around 2003. but that is another story for another day.
Next up on the list of what are they is how I got mine. My friends Henrik and Lotta from Europe got a couple W/Y. We sent them a couple select females. We sent a Mack Raptor, sunglow bell enigma, a stripe Rainwater, and a Nova. Also added to the females that would be breed to the W/Y were a Banana Blazing Rainwater Blizzard, a pure female, and a G project female. These females were all breed to the same W,Y male. With these females we could see if there was any genes that were undisclosed right off the bat. These females were all bred during the 09 season. There were no morphs that hatched from any of the crosses so we concluded that the male W/Y was a pure W/Y.
Lotta sent me my W/Y after the Sept. Hamm show. It took a few more months before I could have the W/Y up to breeding size.
So far I have done some breeding with the W/Y I have hatched what I think are W/Y. They do look slightly different or at least I can tell a difference. They hatch out with an enigma like fading of the pattern into itself. All of you that have hatched out enigmas should know what I am talking about. Its not a huge difference but it is for sure a difference. Its almost kind of like a hypo look when they start “hypo -ing out” where the dark bands are starting to fade. Unlike the hypos that we know of today that hatch out looking like a normal and then with age the bands fade out. The W/Y is born with that fading. Also some of the W/Y I have noticed have that enigma like markings to the head with the spot right above the nose. Not all of them have this but some do. Another thing that the W/Y are kind of lacking is the orange on the tail (“Carrot Tail”) some have what looks like the start of it but like most enigmas it is lacking color on the tail. This could probably achieved over time and selective breeding. How the enigma and the W/Y differ are a few things the biggest thing when you look at them are the eyes. The Enigma has different eyes, they have like that rust look in all of them for the most part( snows usually don’t ). The other thing is the enigmas color and pattern difference from a normal is much more extreme then that of the W/Y. So I’m sure you are all wondering about the big question. What about the spinning and head tilting that the enigmas has do the W/Y have anything like that. The answer so far is that I have not seen any thing like that. So far there is no head tilting, no “spinning”, or any other enigma issues. The big thing and this is just after 5 geckos so this will be along study done on this part. It just might be the “cure” for the enigma. The enigmas W/Y that I have so far don’t do anything weird at all. They are great eaters no spinning head issues so far. But like I said there needs to be more hatchlings and more tests done on what is going on.
On a side note, about the testing of the enigmas. I have set up a test to be done on the enigmas at Penn State University with a Neurologist. From what I understand they are going to be able to see what is actually going on in the head (brain, inner ear, or eye) of the enigmas that is causing them to spin. Maybe we can finally get some real answers instead of answers that save same peoples interests. So the Real story will be out hopefully soon. I am just in the process of breeding the test subjects now.
Now down to the genetics side of the W/Y. So far it is a Dominant mutation that you can get first generation. It has been said that there is a super form but I cant say that there is right now. Breeding of W/Y X W/Y is being done this year, I will know sometime with in the next few months what this will produce. Also I have to do some testing on the W/Y siblings to see if they also are carrying anything that would make the W/Y pop out or not. The tricky part might be that the original breeders were going for that hypo look as stated in their write up. So this could mean that there are “hypo W/Y” and more normal looking “spotted W/Y” and that could make life very interesting. Some of the W/Y that I got at first they looked different (as babies) as they got older they got more spots and became harder to tell that they were W/Y (if that is what they are). You can actually see this in enigmas as well where they go through a huge sometimes ugly-ing stage in which they darken lose color and just get ugly. So like I am saying there is a lot of work to be done on the W/Y to figure out every thing about how it works yet. I will try to let you know all the stuff as I figure it out. I am just trying not to make the same mistakes that were made with the release of the enigmas and a lot of other morphs as well for that matter. It better to take the time, and know first.
As far as the calico goes, From what I know so far is that it randomly pops out of the W/Y. It is basically a W/Y with solid black eyes that hatches out very dark. But like the W/Y work has to be done to see what is really going on with that as well. I don’t have one of the black eyed ones so I can’t tell you anything really anything yet about them YET hahhahahah
I hope that this helps out a little, wish I could tell you more.
If you have any other question, Just put them up and I will see if I can answer them.
As far as when will I start selling mine, I don’t know yet. But I will let everyone know when I do.
The w/y well all I know so far is this.
This was the first time that I saw the w/y
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...ther-eublepharis/26924-super-eublepharis.html
In this thread this is what Sergey and Raisa Prohorchik (the first to produce the W/Y) said about the W/Y.
After seeing these I thought that is where the enigma had to have come from. Also with anything weird that might be genetic I had to have them. I did a little calling around and asking people some questions. The first question was where did the enigmas come from? I did get a hold of some people from Reptile Industries. It is said from people that work there that the enigma was bought not hatched and that it “appeared” in the collection around 2003. but that is another story for another day.
Next up on the list of what are they is how I got mine. My friends Henrik and Lotta from Europe got a couple W/Y. We sent them a couple select females. We sent a Mack Raptor, sunglow bell enigma, a stripe Rainwater, and a Nova. Also added to the females that would be breed to the W/Y were a Banana Blazing Rainwater Blizzard, a pure female, and a G project female. These females were all breed to the same W,Y male. With these females we could see if there was any genes that were undisclosed right off the bat. These females were all bred during the 09 season. There were no morphs that hatched from any of the crosses so we concluded that the male W/Y was a pure W/Y.
Lotta sent me my W/Y after the Sept. Hamm show. It took a few more months before I could have the W/Y up to breeding size.
So far I have done some breeding with the W/Y I have hatched what I think are W/Y. They do look slightly different or at least I can tell a difference. They hatch out with an enigma like fading of the pattern into itself. All of you that have hatched out enigmas should know what I am talking about. Its not a huge difference but it is for sure a difference. Its almost kind of like a hypo look when they start “hypo -ing out” where the dark bands are starting to fade. Unlike the hypos that we know of today that hatch out looking like a normal and then with age the bands fade out. The W/Y is born with that fading. Also some of the W/Y I have noticed have that enigma like markings to the head with the spot right above the nose. Not all of them have this but some do. Another thing that the W/Y are kind of lacking is the orange on the tail (“Carrot Tail”) some have what looks like the start of it but like most enigmas it is lacking color on the tail. This could probably achieved over time and selective breeding. How the enigma and the W/Y differ are a few things the biggest thing when you look at them are the eyes. The Enigma has different eyes, they have like that rust look in all of them for the most part( snows usually don’t ). The other thing is the enigmas color and pattern difference from a normal is much more extreme then that of the W/Y. So I’m sure you are all wondering about the big question. What about the spinning and head tilting that the enigmas has do the W/Y have anything like that. The answer so far is that I have not seen any thing like that. So far there is no head tilting, no “spinning”, or any other enigma issues. The big thing and this is just after 5 geckos so this will be along study done on this part. It just might be the “cure” for the enigma. The enigmas W/Y that I have so far don’t do anything weird at all. They are great eaters no spinning head issues so far. But like I said there needs to be more hatchlings and more tests done on what is going on.
On a side note, about the testing of the enigmas. I have set up a test to be done on the enigmas at Penn State University with a Neurologist. From what I understand they are going to be able to see what is actually going on in the head (brain, inner ear, or eye) of the enigmas that is causing them to spin. Maybe we can finally get some real answers instead of answers that save same peoples interests. So the Real story will be out hopefully soon. I am just in the process of breeding the test subjects now.
Now down to the genetics side of the W/Y. So far it is a Dominant mutation that you can get first generation. It has been said that there is a super form but I cant say that there is right now. Breeding of W/Y X W/Y is being done this year, I will know sometime with in the next few months what this will produce. Also I have to do some testing on the W/Y siblings to see if they also are carrying anything that would make the W/Y pop out or not. The tricky part might be that the original breeders were going for that hypo look as stated in their write up. So this could mean that there are “hypo W/Y” and more normal looking “spotted W/Y” and that could make life very interesting. Some of the W/Y that I got at first they looked different (as babies) as they got older they got more spots and became harder to tell that they were W/Y (if that is what they are). You can actually see this in enigmas as well where they go through a huge sometimes ugly-ing stage in which they darken lose color and just get ugly. So like I am saying there is a lot of work to be done on the W/Y to figure out every thing about how it works yet. I will try to let you know all the stuff as I figure it out. I am just trying not to make the same mistakes that were made with the release of the enigmas and a lot of other morphs as well for that matter. It better to take the time, and know first.
As far as the calico goes, From what I know so far is that it randomly pops out of the W/Y. It is basically a W/Y with solid black eyes that hatches out very dark. But like the W/Y work has to be done to see what is really going on with that as well. I don’t have one of the black eyed ones so I can’t tell you anything really anything yet about them YET hahhahahah
I hope that this helps out a little, wish I could tell you more.
If you have any other question, Just put them up and I will see if I can answer them.
As far as when will I start selling mine, I don’t know yet. But I will let everyone know when I do.