Questions about my new Lygodactylus kimhowelli

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herp_huggs

New member
I recently received 4 Lygodactylus kimhowelli (I think... based on pictures on the internet). I'm looking for some info on them because it seems that there isn't very much about them (or I'm not looking in the right places...)
I've been caring for them pretty much the same as Lygodactylus williamsi, since there's a lot more known about them...
I just have a few basic questions about the kimhowelli in ways that they may not relate to the williamsi. How big do they get? Mine range from 1.25-1.5 " snout to vent, with a tail of about 2". At what size do they need to be before they're sexable? (accurately anyway)
I've separated them all into deli cups and taken pics of their undersides to hopefully sex them if they're big enough... I know that I have at least one male, and I *think* 2 females... the last is maybe male or female... (it has an orange belly like my other male, but the throat is white instead of black)
Pics: ( they're cell phone pics so... )
This is a shot of one of them for identifying purposes:
http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc436/herp_huggs/Mobile Uploads/1303333277.jpg
This one I'm pretty sure is a boy, also he's my largest (though maybe not full grown...?)
http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc436/herp_huggs/Mobile Uploads/1303333431.jpg
http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc436/herp_huggs/Mobile Uploads/1303333460.jpg
The following are the 2 that I think are females (unless of course they'll get much larger, then I don't know lol)
http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc436/herp_huggs/Mobile Uploads/1303333551.jpg
http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc436/herp_huggs/Mobile Uploads/1303333607.jpg
http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc436/herp_huggs/Mobile Uploads/1303334682.jpg
It's hard to get the colors accurately with my cell, thru a deli cup... lol.. the reason I think they're female is because their bellies are pale yellow and they have black stripes on their throats.
The last one looks femaleish but has a mostly white throat with charcoal edges (maybe to turn black later on...) and a much brighter orange colored belly....
http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc436/herp_huggs/Mobile Uploads/1303333509.jpg
http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc436/herp_huggs/Mobile Uploads/1303333538.jpg
If it helps any, the last one pictured is also the smallest (barely).
Any thoughts? I'd like to breed them when they're big enough (if I have enough of each sex... lol)
Anybody have any pointers for me? :) how easily are these bred?
I'm also looking to pick up other Lygodactylus species, so any suggestions?
I'm sure I have a bunch more questions but this is all I can come up with now...
Thanks for reading!
:-D
 
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hexentanz

New member
Hi,

They are indeed kimhowelli. As you suspected, you do have what looks like a male and two females, the last one is too young to sex yet. When kimhowelli are fully grown they are about 3.5 inches. Before you breed them, make sure they are fully grown and 12 months of age or it could mean the death of your animals. Until you are certain they are ready keep what you believe to be females (and the unknown until you know) together and the male separate as they will breed too early if given the chance.

You can keep them the same way as williamsi, but they will tolerate a little more heat than the williamsi.

Babies have red bellies that go from orange to yellow as they age. Sometimes they will keep that yellow belly in to adulthood.

Lygodactylus kimhowelli will breed very easily and sometimes at a rate like rabbits, so you may want to keep only a pair in the end. I have a trio and my females compete so much with each other they lay eggs every two weeks as opposed to the three they started at before I added a second female when her male died. I have so many babies and each time I manage to sell off 3 or 4 I end up with the same amount I just sold off within a short amount of time. We have 38 in the house at the moment. :O

Other Lygodactylus which have nice outgoing personalities (and are readily available in the states) like the kimhowelli and williamsi are picturatus, conradti & capensis. Once you get the hang of things there is also grotei (aka capensis pakenhami) which is a little more advanced.
 
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herp_huggs

New member
Thanks!
I was actually considering separating the male because the other 3 seem to pick on him so he tends to hide in his favorite plant a lot. (even though he's a bit larger than them... he's just too passive)
Does the 3.5" include the tail? I'm glad that I have 2 females because I had hoped to set up 2 pairs, however I may rethink breeding all of them if they're really that prolific lol.
I actually noticed that they liked higher temps by accident. I replaced their tube light with a low watt heat bulb paired with a .5% uvb bulb, and within the first day they were active as can be, other than basking breaks lol. I swear I even saw one do a backflip... :-D
You have 38 of the kimhowelli or is that including other species? I'd love to see pics! Lol
Oh also, what substrate do you use? I have mine on paper towels in their temporary tank, but had planned on using maybe coconut bark, or some sort of mixture... I can't find consistent info regarding that...
 
H

hexentanz

New member
herp_huggs said:
Thanks!
I was actually considering separating the male because the other 3 seem to pick on him so he tends to hide in his favorite plant a lot. (even though he's a bit larger than them... he's just too passive)
Does the 3.5" include the tail? I'm glad that I have 2 females because I had hoped to set up 2 pairs, however I may rethink breeding all of them if they're really that prolific lol.
I actually noticed that they liked higher temps by accident. I replaced their tube light with a low watt heat bulb paired with a .5% uvb bulb, and within the first day they were active as can be, other than basking breaks lol. I swear I even saw one do a backflip... :-D
You have 38 of the kimhowelli or is that including other species? I'd love to see pics! Lol
Oh also, what substrate do you use? I have mine on paper towels in their temporary tank, but had planned on using maybe coconut bark, or some sort of mixture... I can't find consistent info regarding that...
Click to expand...

Yup, tail is included in that.

If you want to setup only pairs go for it, personally I only find the reproduction numbers frightening in trios. A friend of mine who also has a trio doesn't have so many babies as we do here (yes really 38 babies, tho most are reaching adulthood now), but his trio are older in age than mine. Some have better hatch rates with their eggs and some don't.

A thing of note is that also like williamsi the babies can be pretty fragile, so not all will survive, especially at the beginning when you are just starting out with them (for some more than others). Out of 70 or 80 babies in total (don't have my chart handy) we have lost 7. Some were when we were first starting out and some later on.

As for substrate I use a sand/soil mix with some additives. Here we are lucky to have already a sand/soil mix from JBL so no work is needed there from us if you only want that. Additives to this from me are usually some cocoa fiber and sphagnum peat moss. This I find produces some nice humidity levels.
 
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herp_huggs

New member
That sounds great! Thanks for all the info!

Are the stripes on the throat usually the first indicator of sex with these guys? The little one that I was unsure about shedded yesterday, and now has stripes (pale, but there)... Either way, it looks like I'll be male shopping in the future... lol.

I was thinking about using a coconut bark and vermiculite mixture plus some sphagnum moss for their substrate but idk...
 
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hexentanz

New member
herp_huggs said:
That sounds great! Thanks for all the info!

Are the stripes on the throat usually the first indicator of sex with these guys? The little one that I was unsure about shedded yesterday, and now has stripes (pale, but there)... Either way, it looks like I'll be male shopping in the future... lol.

I was thinking about using a coconut bark and vermiculite mixture plus some sphagnum moss for their substrate but idk...
Click to expand...

I would more say it is a sign of getting older and almost reaching a sexable age. I notice when mine first hatch out they have these stripes as well then over the next days they fade and do not return until they are a little older (around 3-4 months). When they reach 6 months sometimes only sometimes you can see if one will be a male, as you will not only notice these lines but darkening of the throat as well starting from the outside inward toward the middle.

I would steer clear of the vermiculite and even perlite in your mix as really hungry Lygos will swallow these pieces up while feeding leading to blockage. The cocoa and sphagnum alone will create too much of a soggy soil, so you will need to have something to balance in there like a good draining potting soil (fertilizer free) and fine grade herp safe sand. The mixture should in the end be nice and fluffy.
 
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herp_huggs

New member
Ah ok... I guess I gotta just be patient then... lol
I took out the one bigger male the other day (to keep him from being picked on mostly, these girls are slightly bullyish) and now he seems really happy :) he's kind of a people gecko I think... Every time I'm in the cages for any reason he'll jump on my hand. He just loves being held and will just sit on my shoulder. He only ever freaks when its time to go back in the cage! Lol the others don't really wanna be bothered by me, but love watching my every move. These guys are so peculiar!

I'll leave the vermiculite out of my mix, I didn't even think about the mouthfuls they'd get... I can probably find some sand. Soil (without chemicals) is another story, I've searched my town for potting soil without the chemicals and can't find any. I do have a bag of topsoil that I use to pot plants for enclosures (had a cresty last year that always passed up her lay box for her pothos pot lol) maybe I can use that... lol
Thanks again for all of your help! I feel far better about caring for these tiny geckos now :)
 
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herp_huggs

New member
The females are doing great! They're silly little things...
The male died shortly after he settled in on his own. I'm not sure what exactly happened, he was a little rough, but started to look up just before he died. They were wild caught so I can't say how old he was...
The 3 I have left are doing very well and growing fast. I do think I have 3 females due to their interactions with each other. Plus they all have striped throats now lol. I'll probably wait til they're full grown and I'm 100% on their sex, then look for a few males :)
 
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herp_huggs

New member
Thanks! I was pretty torn up when I found him... He was just about my fave because he had an awesome personality. He also loved being held for some reason lol.
The other 3 are just super :)
Thanks again! I'm gonna keep you in mind when I come across more questions....lol
 
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