Leopard gecko juvie: Strange poop and less appetite

[M&S-328]

My new juvenile leo was wonderfully healthy when I first purchased her. And she still is doing great activity-wise and weight-wise.
But over the past 2 or 3 weeks I've noticed her poop has been getting runny, and she isnt eating very much each night.
Her eating habits (when I first bought her) was about 8 appropriately sized crickets and 4-6 mealworms a night. Eventually I ran out of crickets and had to do about 3 or 4 nights of just mealworms while my order was delivered (I had ordered online). Once the new crickets came in and I attempted to reintroduce them into her nightly feeding I noticed she was not taking to them like before. She used to get extremely excited and pounce right at them - but now she wasnt hardly moving towards them at all. She'd eat (by being hand fed) maybe 1-2 crickets a night, and then eventually a few nights later she started ignoring them altogether. At that point I started feeding her about 5-8 mealworms a night and them left about 10 in a dish for her to pick at through the night and the next day. This seemed to be fine for a little while.
She was eating about 5-8 giant mealworms at mealtime and then maybe another 3-5 regular mealworms overnight.
However, as I said, over the past 2-3 weeks her appetite decreased to about 2 giant mealworms a night followed by maybe 1-3 regular mealworms overnight. And I noticed her poop has gotten runny. It looks correct in its coloring for the most past - just very watery. Though last night I saw a poop right after she made it and it seemed to have a lot of grey slime/film mixed in with it/covering it.
I heard stress and waxworms can sometimes cause leos natural tummy parasites level to drop, but once shes settled in and eating correctly her poop should go back to normal. But I have not given her any treat waxworms in about a week (I was giving her about one a week before after a handling session), and I didnt handle her for over 5 days. And its not like shes brand new, Ive had her for awhile now and she had already settled in nicely.

So, I know I should be a fecal test (and I plan to). But I want to know if anyone else has had a similar experience and knows a simple cure, or at least what the cause was.
The vets in the area arnt the smartest when it comes to geckos.. They werent able to help me out once when one of my leos got a nasty virus (and unfortunatly eventually passed =/ ). So Im hoping I can get some help on here that I can maybe pass along to the vets so they will be more able to help me. lol.

Thanks!

 

[Mardy]

You're going for a fecal exam, which is good, because I think it's needed as you noticed loss of appetite along with the poop being different. Those are 2 signs of possible parasites or other internal issues. So I hope the test comes out ok.

Do those new crickets you bought look different? They aren't killer crickets are they? Geckos have known to get intimidated by them, and often injured because those crickets are more fierce and they bite hard.

When you said "giant mealworms", are you feeding what petstores label as "giant mealworms"? If so those are laced with growth hormones and they should not be fed to your leopard geckos.

 

[M&S-328]

Nope the crickets were absolutely NOT killer crickets! (I checked out your link to be sure). They were "regular" crickets. Some were bought from a local petstore and the rest were bought online from the flukers website.

Yes the giant mealworms were the petco labeled "giant mealworms" kind. I am aware that they are said to have been fed growth hormones (and Im not doubting that at all!), but I have never had any issues with them before, or with another leo who eat them.
Im considering purchasing superworms instead (they scare me! haha!), but Im just a bit wary of it because Im not sure if they'd be a bit too big for my juvie.
Do you think the giant mealworms could be causing the strange poop or loss of appetite? I find it odd that she'd love to eat them so much if they were making her feel poorly...hmm?
Either way, Im in the process of finding a replacement feeder for the giant mealwroms. As crickets dont seem to be an option right now (shes not very interested in them at all) Im thinking about dubia roches. Do you/anyone know the best/cheapest place to get them from?

Thank You =]

and.. Anymore help is greatly appreciated!

 

[Hardknox]

Do you think the giant mealworms could be causing the strange poop or loss of appetite? I find it odd that she'd love to eat them so much if they were making her feel poorly...hmm?

The average person eats food terrible for them every single day and we actually know it is bad for us so I would say that is a terrible conclusion to make. What tastes good usually trumps what is good for you and that goes for geckos as well. It is why other geckos like cresties get addicted to sugar loaded baby food and purees despite the fact that CGD is much better for them and they frequently get to the point they will not even take CGD.

I might also add the "growth hormone" fed to mealworms is actually a pesticide. It is the same chemical make up as actual growth hormone but is available as a pesticide in a very impure form. It is believed this chemical has no impact on reptiles but just as certain people can have sensitivities to chemicals and allergens it is possible for something to adversely affect one gecko and not another. Frame of reference is Yellow 5 (Tartrazine) is a toxin in A LOT of our food that has little to no effect on average people but in 1% of the population causes chest pains and sickness in highly variable magnitudes.

Now I am not saying that is what is wrong, I am saying you are ruling things out that you cannot rule out and you should leave to a professional to rule out because you are not qualified/informed to make those calls. A hundred other things varying from common husbandry mistakes to rare diseases could cause what you are describing.

 

[Mardy]

Admins here don't like me linking offsite url's so this might get deleted, but I get my roaches from buydubiaroaches.com. Their prices are good and roaches are healthy & well when they arrived.

As for giant mealworms, you can feed your geckos giant mealworms if you like, but to me it's a risk that I wouldn't take. They are chemically modified. There are too many feeder choices out there that are grown normally, I personally wouldn't take a chance of that growth hormone affecting my geckos. Not to mention many mealworms breeders even say so that they wouldn't recommend feeding them to reptiles:

FAQ From New York Worms

"Do you recommend/sell "Giant" Mealworms?

The so-called "Giant" Mealworms are created by spraying "common" Mealworms with an insect growth hormone to keep them growing instead of pupating as they would normally. Because of this, we feel that the "Giants" are a poor food choice for your Reptiles. However, we do highly recommend them as fishing bait! "



I'd definitely try supers instead of giants, buy small amount and see if your gecko will take them on. If they won't, dubia roaches are very robust and live a long time, easy to gutload and feed, and they come in all sizes.

 

[M&S-328]

I am saying you are ruling things out that you cannot rule out and you should leave to a professional to rule out because you are not qualified/informed to make those calls. A hundred other things varying from common husbandry mistakes to rare diseases could cause what you are describing.

Hardknox.. I think your post is a bit "harsh".
You do not know what my educations is, how long I've handle leos, what my profession is, etc. So you cannot say that I am not qualified or informed enough to make certain calls..
Also I am definitely not going to rule anything out as the cause of my leos poo issues and appetite issues. I am going to have a fecal exam done, and that will be the first piece of factual information to let me know if there is or is not parasites, viruses, etc. at play.
However, I do completely agree with your thought about giant mealworms being harmful to one leo like certain dyes can be harmful to some people but have no noticeable effect of others. Thank you for that analogy.
Im just curious if ingesting giant mealworms (moreover, the chemicals in/on them) is typically bad for all leopard geckos - like ingesting rat poison or bleach is bad for all humans.


Mardy, Thank You very much for the site of dubia roaches!


If either of you or anyone else out there has ever had a similar poo issue with your leos, or know someone who did - I'd love to hear about what happened, if you ever found out the cause, and how you fixed it! =] Thanks!

 

[Hardknox]

Like I said in my first post it is widely considered to not be bad for reptiles however they do not exactly get the testing and trials people do in regard to food and pharmaceuticals, so how scientifically conclusive that is I am not sure.
Also I am sorry if I came across as a little harsh but I do in fact have an idea of your experience/education based on what you have posted. For instance I can say with almost certainty you are not a trained/qualified veterinarian and that is all I meant when I said you are not qualified to rule things out. You also specifically stated you did not think it was certain things based on your own observations/notions which were incorrect. I said it bluntly but did not intend it offensively. Finally asking questions that can be googled and answered in 5 minutes or less like "Where do I buy Dubias?" would certainly lend evidence as to how experienced you are or are not.

Lastly, I bought some dubias from a few different places for my colony and the site mentioned above was indeed the cheapest place I found (though you will find the variance on prices very small) and I have had no problems with the roaches I got from them, I only bought from several places because my colony will be quite large and I wanted genetic diversity in my feeders. Googling "Buy dubia roaches online" yields 3 companies in the first 3 links that are all excellent to buy from as well as any number of other links to conversations about places to buy dubias. Also you may want to check places like craigslist for your area as frequently there are local people like the guy I got my first dubias from who sell in your area which can save considerably on shipping.

Note: In general on internet forums its bad form to ask for specific companies to buy from because for somebody to actually answer it they give a company free advertising which is why Mardy mentioned the admins will frequently delete those links/posts.

 

[TheOneBlueGecko]

I really don't have any other suggestions other than getting a fecal done is a good thing. When my young gecko started to have issues decreased appetite and runny poop were one of the first signs. The difficult thing is that those two things are symptoms of a ton of different problems. My gecko never got a definitive diagnosis, but the vet thought it was likely crypto.

 

[M&S-328]

Hardknox..
You definitaly are offending me. Im just being honest. Because I have quite a lot of experience with geckos. And until recently I have had very few issues with them at all. All my geckos readily ate crickets and mealworms (regular and giants) without any issues - thats why I am asking if anyone else had ever had similar issues... Am I a vet? No. Do I have a history of diagnosing and treating my geckos accuratly. Yes. Have I studied extensively and gotten an education on geckos, inside and out. Yes. So please do not assume to know my education and experience. Thats just rude to do.
Lastly, I would not dare to just google a question like where should I buy dubias from. Are you joking? There are tons of experienced people on here who have been using dubias for years - and I trust them and their opinions more than a google search.

If you have something helpful and nice to post - I will gladly accept it! But if you are going to keep assuming things that are A. none of your business, and B. incorrect about me... than please just refrain from this thread.

Thank you.

 

[M&S-328]

TheOneBlueGecko..

Did your young gecko make it? As you said the vet thought it was crypto, and many leos never recover from that/live very long. What treatments did you go through with him?

 

[TheOneBlueGecko]

TheOneBlueGecko..

Did your young gecko make it? As you said the vet thought it was crypto, and many leos never recover from that/live very long. What treatments did you go through with him?

No, she did not make it. The vet treated her with a drug called Baycox, in the hope that there might be some improvement, but there was none. We considered trying something else, but decided not to as crypto really is a fatal thing in leos and she was doing so poorly that it seemed better to just try a keep the tank clean and keep her less stressed approach. Sometimes they do improve a bit (or at least for a while) by just keeping the tank clean and reducing reinfection a bit.

That being said, I don't want you to overly worry that your gecko must have crypto, it is just one possibility of many.

One of the really odd things with my gecko's poop is that is smelled odd. When I am gone on a trip and return home to a bit of a messy tank my gecko's poo has normally not smelled much at all, maybe a bit ammoniaish, but nothing that would seem odd in general about poo in general. With this gecko her poo smelled really bad and different that I would expect.

 

[M&S-328]

I am sorry to hear of your loss.

I dont believe I've ever heard of a leo that was cured of crypto, but I know some were treated and lived for a decent amount of time in reasonably good condition.

I'll keep in mind the strange poo smell tip. So far the poop smells pretty normal - maybe even less smelly than it was when it was solid. So, hopefully thats a good sign! Crypto is definitely not something I want to spread around here...

Thanks!

 

[Hardknox]

Hardknox..
You definitaly are offending me. Im just being honest. Because I have quite a lot of experience with geckos. And until recently I have had very few issues with them at all. All my geckos readily ate crickets and mealworms (regular and giants) without any issues - thats why I am asking if anyone else had ever had similar issues... Am I a vet? No. Do I have a history of diagnosing and treating my geckos accuratly. Yes. Have I studied extensively and gotten an education on geckos, inside and out. Yes. So please do not assume to know my education and experience. Thats just rude to do.
Lastly, I would not dare to just google a question like where should I buy dubias from. Are you joking? There are tons of experienced people on here who have been using dubias for years - and I trust them and their opinions more than a google search.

If you have something helpful and nice to post - I will gladly accept it! But if you are going to keep assuming things that are A. none of your business, and B. incorrect about me... than please just refrain from this thread.

Thank you.

Actually all I said was that you were definitely not a vet. Am I a vet? No. Am I a published biophysicist? Yes. Does that qualify me to interpret a persons statements and draw conclusions as to the extensiveness of their qualifications? Yes, look up peer reviewing in academia. You got your geckos to eat insects they eat instinctively? Congrats teach me master. Anybody can keep these animals alive, I can reference a few 10 year olds that do it well but no matter how you feel about your knowledge, as a qualified and accredited individual reading your blanket statements you came across as quite ignorant.

"They eat the mealworms thus they cannot be bad for them." That statement is impressively ignorant in regard to any living thing.

"I would not dare Google something like where to buy Dubias." Interesting how the first recommendation is the first link on the Google list.

Per your own statement quoted above, I literally said nothing incorrect about you. Not reading my original statement, taking it out of context and treating me like a monster because I did not tell you what you wanted to hear.

Thats just rude to do.

and a very childish response to being corrected. If you come on to the forums to get the advice of people who know more than you I suggest you be willing to accept it. You asked questions, I answered them to the best of my ability. You made false conclusions, I corrected them to the best of my ability. I gave you straight answers as facts, though I suppose I should have coddled you and told you what a wonderful job you are doing.

Keeping geckos must be easier than reading.

 

[TheOneBlueGecko]

I dont believe I've ever heard of a leo that was cured of crypto, but I know some were treated and lived for a decent amount of time in reasonably good condition.

There are some people that 'claim' to have had geckos cured, but I think that in general people just think that you basically can treat the symptoms and reduce the amount in the gecko to the point where it is not impacting them on a day to day basis. My gecko 'had' it from the time I bought it, maybe a month old, and I think that it being so little made it hard to do much. Plus, best case, I would have had a gecko for a couple of years before it succumbed to crypto and a couple years of worrying about accidentally infecting my other gecko. It was sad when she passed away, but I was kind of happy to no longer have her suffering.

Keeping geckos must be easier than reading.

Dude, really, this is not even your thread, why are you being a jerk? It is not as if the OP is advocating something that you would need to warn people about.

 

[Hardknox]

Look he blew up on me first and I responded. No it is not my thread but I am directly responding to comments made to me after I responded to his statements. He took my comments out of context and blew them out of proportion. Can you really say it does not irritate you when people comment on your posts but clearly did not read what you said?

 

[M&S-328]

Hardknox..

First off, if your so smart, good job knowing my gender. Its SHE.

And yes. I read every word you said. I was looking for people with similar situations as mine to comment and give helpful advice for my gecko. All you did was try to treat me like I'm stupid and dont know how to take care of my geckos. You've insulted me on several levels. I asked that you please stop posting in this thread because you arnt giving me any help at all - you are just being rude and prideful. Now I'll probably have to post a whole new thread to get any new commenters inputs, cause no one will want to post in a thread this heated.


I greatly thank TheOneBlueGecko for all your information about your experience with crypto! When one of my previous baby leos got a virus (very terrible) I was heart broken to see him pass, but I was also relieved he would not be suffering anymore and that he wouldn't pass along the virus to any of my other leos.
Also, thank you for your supporting comment for me

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

To All ~

For better communication with our pets in mind, please calm down. Advice can be given without pointing fingers, if you know what I mean. ;-)

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hardknox..

First off, if your so smart, good job knowing my gender. Its SHE.

And yes. I read every word you said. I was looking for people with similar situations as mine to comment and give helpful advice for my gecko. All you did was try to treat me like I'm stupid and dont know how to take care of my geckos. You've insulted me on several levels. I asked that you please stop posting in this thread because you arnt giving me any help at all - you are just being rude and prideful. Now I'll probably have to post a whole new thread to get any new commenters inputs, cause no one will want to post in a thread this heated.


I greatly thank TheOneBlueGecko for all your information about your experience with crypto! When one of my previous baby leos got a virus (very terrible) I was heart broken to see him pass, but I was also relieved he would not be suffering anymore and that he wouldn't pass along the virus to any of my other leos.
Also, thank you for your supporting comment for me

I totally recommend to let bygones be bygones. The best advice is for your leo to get a fecal asap. Look at the 3rd or 4th post to this care sheet link if you need fecal collection advice: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...pard-gecko-care-recommendations-nutshell.html