Help, neglected leo

MushuSpyro

New member
Today I brought a female leo for my birthday off a guy on preloved.
she's approximately 1 year old, mack snow enigma.

She is VERY underweight, so bad you can see her leg joints, and her tail is very skinny.
She can't support her body, and I'm not sure if it's MBD or where she hasn't eaten.
She walks like she's drunk, and isn't alert or anything.

There also appears to be rough skin on her head, but it doesn't look like stuck shed.

I will be able to post Pics tomorrow.

I am going to take her to the vets when bank holiday period is over...

IS there anything I can do for her in the meantime?
 

cricket4u

New member
Hi,

Is there a chance of at least a picture of the enclosure with her in it? I just want to her if she has everything she needs in her enclosure and how she is reacting, if not hidden. Please do not pull her out just for a picture. Making sure she is comfortable is most important.

Do you have any history on her? How was she housed? What substrate? When did you bring her home exactly? Have you noticed her drinking water?

These are the temps you want to provide.

88-93 F (31-34 C) ground temp at warm end inside the warm dry hide
no greater than 85 F (29.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
no greater than 75 F (24.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the cool end

Leave the UTH on 24/7. Can turn off overhead heating at night.
 
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MushuSpyro

New member
I'll be able to get the pics tomorrow. I'm doing my best to make sure she's comfortable, so I'm letting her get used to her surroundings and do what she pleases. She hasn't moved much, or hid much.

I texted the guy a while ago, but no reply. I asked him what she was fed, how often, if calcium dust was used, has she been to the vets, any other medical illnesses in the past, what substrate.

He came by car to my house today, she was in a see-through container, live prey box.
I haven't noticed her drinking water, but when I put food in the dish, she stood over the dish, but hasn't eaten as far as I know.

I'm already a gecko owner, so I know the right temps, hides, sub etc.

I keep my reptiles all on newspaper, so there's no risk of impaction.

Currently, she is in a 3.5 ft in length (think that's the right way to put it, quite long)

Several hides on both sides (hot and cold) plus another hide in the middle. Has logs and branches to climb, but not high enough to fall off or hurt self.

During the day the temps are roughly 28-30 C hot side. Night time temps are roughly 19 - 24 C.
UDH is used all times of day, the heat light (red) is only on during day time for roughly 8-10 hours (turned off at night).

I am going to take her to the vets tuesday, I would get her in sooner, but it's the bank holiday so it won't be open.
 

cricket4u

New member
roughly 28-30 C hot side

Ground or air? Please provide the temps as mentioned above. It's difficult to give advice without a visual of her current body condition or any history. We don't know if what you are describing is due to severe dehydration or MBD or other. Either one can kill her if you attempt to feed solid food. If she's not able to support her body, she may be unable to reach the water dish. It may be best to lean in the enclosure, with a syringe slowly allow a few water drops on the tip of her mouth so that she can lick. I wish I can offer more advice, but without the info and pic, more harm than good can be done.
 

MushuSpyro

New member
Sorry, just a bit worried so not typing right.
Air temp usually stays at 28 C
Ground temp is usually 29-31 C.

I can't get a picture until tomorrow morning :/
I'll try the syringe. Thank you for getting back to me, and I'll take out the food for now.
 

MushuSpyro

New member
I'm still waiting for the guy to reply, but I think he sold her for a reason. He's supposed to be a breeder. He sent me pics, but she wasn't any of the ones in them. I don't mind buying a sick Leo, I just want to be able to make her feel better and give her a better life.
 

cricket4u

New member
I'm still waiting for the guy to reply, but I think he sold her for a reason. He's supposed to be a breeder. He sent me pics, but she wasn't any of the ones in them. I don't mind buying a sick Leo, I just want to be able to make her feel better and give her a better life.

Make sure that she has a humidity hide as well placed in the warm side. Place everything very close to where she is laying so that it's easily accessible. Also a very small lid of 100% plain calcium. I'll be looking forward to the pictures tomorrow.

Shame on that guy!

Is she holding her head up high and is keeping her eyes open?
 
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MushuSpyro

New member
Okay thanks! :) And I had some in a small dish anyway, it's not really tall so she doesn't have to move much.
She's laying flat to the ground mostly, she's lifted her head a couple of times. Her eyes are open though, which is good.

If the guy doesn't reply, I'm contemplating calling the RSPCA, because he's a breeder and it's just not fair! poor little things :l
 

MushuSpyro

New member
431082_254025454740724_522743256_n.jpg
In this pic she doesn't look so skinny, but she's got her back arched..
I'm going to try and get a better pic of her condition later, didn't want to disturb her..
I was thinking of getting her in the bath for hydration, what do you think?

The breeder messaged back saying she is healthy, had no problem, and she's the same as his others. He said he even sells them to shops.
 

MushuSpyro

New member
General Information
Species of lizard: Leopard Gecko
Gecko's name: Cynder
Morph: Normal
Gender: Female
Age: 1 year approx
Weight: unknown as of yet
Total length: unknown as of yet
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: Same as above
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): Breeder/previous owner
Captive bred or wild caught: captive bred

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth): Not sure of exact mesurements- about 3 1/5 ft long.
Cage (type, size): wooden vivarium, 3 1/5 ft long, not sure on height
Substrate provided: news paper
Types of hiding places provided: coconut shell, exo terra medium size cave, rocks with designed holes. roughly about 10 hides
Is there a humidity hide? location? Yes, on hot side, placed over UTH
Please describe any other furnishings: Big rock like cave with a few holes to go through to hide.
List recent changes in the environment, if any: none

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s): Red exo terra bulb
Fluorescent (tube bulbs): no
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: no

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? yes
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): Digital and temp gun
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 28-32
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 27-29
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: 20-24
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): UTH, over head red bulb
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): taped down uth
Are you using a thermostat(s)? yes
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? humid hide
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? yes, from 29-32 hot side to 23-25 , and cold side drops from 23 to 19.

Humidity
Is the humidity measured?
Humidity range:

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: Mealwroms, crickets, sometimes silk worms
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms: gutload with the cricket food, veg,
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? yes, stated above
How often do you feed your gecko? every day at night.
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Calcium dust - pets at home brand
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? not sure, am going to buy vitamin sups too.
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without?n/a
Multivitamins (include brand name)? am purchasign today
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: none

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: deformed limbs, cant support body, skiny, walks like drunk. got her yesterday have noticed since.
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? not sure, she doesn't move much since I've had her.
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? doesn't eat
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): n/a
Discharge from the eyes or nose:no
Increased breathing rate or effort:yes
Change in the droppings: n/a
Urates
---white or yellowish: yellow
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: small
Abnormal skin color or shedding: rough white area's, not sure what it is
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: no
Weakness:yes

Previous problems and/or illnesses: Do not know.

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household: no
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: n/a
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): Bearded dragon, 2x Leopard gecko
Are any of your other pets ill?no
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
The breeder denied everything, and looks like he copied and pasted from a leo care sheet.

Denying this is horrible!

Yellow urates are NOT a good sign :-(.

I know Nutrobal is sold in the UK. Can you get some?

It is important to know whether this leo received calcium with D3 at all.

Any chance you could bump the warm end temperature so that the lower end of your range is 31 C?

Seems like metabolic bone disease to me.
 
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MushuSpyro

New member
Yeah, I can get some.
He said she had calcium, but that's it.
And yeah will do now.
That's what I thought, taking her to the vets as soon as they're open.
Thanks for helping me
 
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