New leo owner!
- Thread starter DrenneRvc
- Start date
Conched
New member
I am heading to the Repticon Reptile Expo in Raleigh, NC today. Should be interesting. I am going to try and pick up some different types of feeders. I am going to try and use restraint from buying anything else !!!
Mardy
New member
DrenneRvc
New member
Just got home, spent a few hours there.
Honestly, since my city is so lame i figured there would not be much. Holy cow, there were sooooo much stuff!
I wanted to buy every gecko!! I went with around 400 cash, only spent a little, but I was so tempted to buy a few, just knew i didnt have the space for them
They had a lot of amazing looking animals.
I did however pick up 1 gecko, which I believe is a high yellow? not 100%
Female, few months old(3 I think?) Sorta small compared to my almost 3 month old Nikalus.
Picture:
I have introduced her to my tank with niklaus, ready to separate at any time. I'l be monitoring and have another tank on stand by. They've notcied each other, walked by, ect.
Also bought a few new hides, for good prices, pretty cool.
My sister bought a Crested gecko. Shes much more experienced than me and is what got me into geckos.
Red harley or something like that ;p
Had an amazing time, and will probably go again next month, even if not to buy anything.
I really want to buy a Hedgehog tho they looked so amazing
Honestly, since my city is so lame i figured there would not be much. Holy cow, there were sooooo much stuff!
I wanted to buy every gecko!! I went with around 400 cash, only spent a little, but I was so tempted to buy a few, just knew i didnt have the space for them
They had a lot of amazing looking animals.I did however pick up 1 gecko, which I believe is a high yellow? not 100%
Female, few months old(3 I think?) Sorta small compared to my almost 3 month old Nikalus.
Picture:
I have introduced her to my tank with niklaus, ready to separate at any time. I'l be monitoring and have another tank on stand by. They've notcied each other, walked by, ect.
Also bought a few new hides, for good prices, pretty cool.
My sister bought a Crested gecko. Shes much more experienced than me and is what got me into geckos.
Red harley or something like that ;p
Had an amazing time, and will probably go again next month, even if not to buy anything.
I really want to buy a Hedgehog tho
they looked so amazing
Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
Steve ~
Super that you had a good time!
Just to be on the safe side, it is always advisable to quarantine any new gecko for at least 60 days prior to introducing it to cagemates.
Super that you had a good time!
Just to be on the safe side, it is always advisable to quarantine any new gecko for at least 60 days prior to introducing it to cagemates.
Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
PS:
Steve ~
There are soooooooooooooooooo many details.
Size difference as well as sex is critical in terms of aggression. Bullying could happen if they are together. They will know their sexes before you do.
Was your new leo incubated to be female?
Thing is, it is impractical to be on an aggression alert 24/7. When you are around, they might be on their best behavior. When you are gone, there could be more than monkey business happening. Sometimes the aggression proves fatal :sad:.
Steve ~
There are soooooooooooooooooo many details.
Size difference as well as sex is critical in terms of aggression. Bullying could happen if they are together. They will know their sexes before you do.
Was your new leo incubated to be female?
Thing is, it is impractical to be on an aggression alert 24/7. When you are around, they might be on their best behavior. When you are gone, there could be more than monkey business happening. Sometimes the aggression proves fatal :sad:.
DrenneRvc
New member
she was incubated for female and also he used one of this things you look at diamonds with?
so far, all day from when i posted earlier (12:26 PM) they have been together and not 1 sign of aggression.
cricket4u
New member
Hi Steve,
Quarantine should never be skipped. For the sake of Niklaus the new gecko should be in her own enclosure at a good distance. Leos can live with Crypto and show no symptoms until they are under tremendous stress. I also want to bring to your attention that there is very poor housing information floating around the internet. The true minimum requirements for one leo alone is:
4x's as long as the whole gecko
3x's as wide
2x's as high
A 40 gallon is not appropriate for 2 leos. These leos will continue to grow. The size of the hides will have to be increased which means less space. They will not fit in that coconut hide you have there soon. It would be too cluttered with 6 hides and they should never be forced to share hides. This has lead to poor thermoregulating and health problems in many geckos. Each gecko should have at least 20% free walking space without having to climb over furniture.
Quarantine should never be skipped. For the sake of Niklaus the new gecko should be in her own enclosure at a good distance. Leos can live with Crypto and show no symptoms until they are under tremendous stress. I also want to bring to your attention that there is very poor housing information floating around the internet. The true minimum requirements for one leo alone is:
4x's as long as the whole gecko
3x's as wide
2x's as high
A 40 gallon is not appropriate for 2 leos. These leos will continue to grow. The size of the hides will have to be increased which means less space. They will not fit in that coconut hide you have there soon. It would be too cluttered with 6 hides and they should never be forced to share hides. This has lead to poor thermoregulating and health problems in many geckos. Each gecko should have at least 20% free walking space without having to climb over furniture.
DrenneRvc
New member
Really, my 40 gal isn't big enough for 2 you think? A
I've bought more hides for them, will post posts later this evening.
[edit]
So, no signs of aggression. Nothing happened all day(yesterday) while I was monitoring, and while I was away at night, nothing either. both are fine and walking around in the morning (now)
Niklaus ate this morning, the other did not tho. reckon she needs to get use to everything.
I only had meal worms to give today, but the breeder said she fed crickets, so i'm going to get some today.
They were together this morning in the same hide, even tho I provided extra hides (not coconut, picked up exo terra gecko caves) so no reason they should of been forced into the same hide :O
Last edited:
GeckoManiac91
New member
Why wouldn't a 40gallon work for two Leo's? There are many experienced Leopard Gecko owners that say a 20gallon is good for one and even two Leo's! Granted I don't agree with putting two in a 20gallon because it is near to impossible to supply the correct number of hides without leaving the geckos crammed in a tank that size. Some say a 20gallon is a minimum for one gecko, some say its doable for two. It's a matter of opinion and it's unfair to simply say a "40 gallon is inappropriate for 2 Leo's" when that's your opinion, not everyone else's.
You might say Leo's are solitary creatures and don't need companionship and that it even harms them where again, that is your opinion. There are so many things that can be debated about this topic but no one really knows the definite answer. It's mostly all opinion based.
By no means did I intend for this post to come off rude, just putting my thoughts in
Last edited:
GeckoManiac91
New member
Don't know why the quote did not work like I intended, my apologizes
Don't know why the quote did not work like I intended, my apologizes
remove the slash "/" from the first "quote" header. ;-)
cricket4u
New member
No, it's not based on opinion, it's based on experiments. You see, I've been researching Ecology and evolution for over 30 years. I've read in depth experimental biology journals and more books than you could imagine. I've also have kept many reptiles and experimented on my own within safe limits of course.Why wouldn't a 40gallon work for two Leo's? There are many experienced Leopard Gecko owners that say a 20gallon is good for one and even two Leo's! Granted I don't agree with putting two in a 20gallon because it is near to impossible to supply the correct number of hides without leaving the geckos crammed in a tank that size. Some say a 20gallon is a minimum for one gecko, some say its doable for two. It's a matter of opinion and it's unfair to simply say a "40 gallon is inappropriate for 2 Leo's" when that's your opinion, not everyone else's.
You might say Leo's are solitary creatures and don't need companionship and that it even harms them where again, that is your opinion. There are so many things that can be debated about this topic but no one really knows the definite answer. It's mostly all opinion based.
By no means did I intend for this post to come off rude, just putting my thoughts in
What you see in captivity are space and stimulation deprived leos who are overweight. Depriving them of their full potential in ethically wrong and quite sad.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Practical continuing education for veterinary practitioners.
Biological and behavioural considerations
Significant differences exist between domesticated companion animal species such as dogs and cats and exotic non-domesticated pet species, which include all reptiles. Biologically, dogs and cats, along with other commonly domesticated animals including cattle and horses, possess essentially genetically ‘pre-adapted’ and ‘soft-wired’ traits allowing them to coexist (‘life-share’) with other species and the captive context. By contrast, reptiles possess few pre-adaptive features and are hard-wired with innate biological, behavioural and psychological needs that preset them to life in nature.
An inescapable factor that dramatically and negatively impacts on the biological suitability of reptiles to captivity is that, unlike dogs and cats, reptiles will almost universally be ‘life-restricted’ in small, arbitrarily and poorly conceived vivariums maintained by non-professionals. These major biological considerations and management deficiencies imbue the veterinary surgeon with onerous duties to look for overt and emerging, as well as occult, health (physical, behavioural, psychological and husbandry) issues associated with reptiles that are presented to them, irrespective of the reason for consultation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They're wired for survival and will never love. Hunt, rest, breed and poop:biggrin: is all they know.
I've also read into locomotion bio-mechanics in relation to foraging. Leopard geckos in particular have mechanics of walk and run. These guys travel distances foraging for prey. You will never see their true potential housed in these small enclosures, therefore they're being deprived which is inadequate. There's a fair amount of information available in regards to leopard geckos, however one must dig very deep and the material is quite expensive.
The leo should also have temperatures zones, not spots as I mentioned before.
4x's as long as the gecko
3x's as wide
2x's as high
This is why this is the true minimum requirements.
Last edited:
GeckoManiac91
New member
I see what you're saying.. I do. And 30years of background in this subject is quite extensive and I do respect that and what you have to say. However you can't expect Steve to dismiss all other information he has read and disregard all research he has done himself. And what about all the people who have had great luck caring for Leo's in conditions that you don't advise? There are probably some extremely healthy leopard geckos that are housed in pairs in a a 40, 30, or even quite possibly a 20gallon tank and then on the other hand there are probably some very unhealthy, poorly cared for Leopard Geckos in those same conditions. (Bare in mind I'm only speaking of the housing conditions, not supplements, diet, etc..) And the exact same probably goes for the care and housing you recommend. Some very healthy Leo's kept in 40gallon or 36x18x12 tanks by themselves and then some that are not. It just begs the question is there really a "right" or "perfect" way to house these reptiles?
And if you really want to get technical these animals were never intended to be kept as pets, we removed them from their natural habitat to keep them as such though and because of this we will never be able to duplicate their natural environment and fully take advantage of their "Full Potential".
I do agree that the bigger the enclosure size the better, but how do we know what the bare minimum is? Some say a 10 gallon, some say 20 and I'm sure some even say a 30 or 40gallon is minimum. I'm also sure that people have kept Leopard Geckos and has had them thrive in all 4 of the above. Although I'm sure almost every one on this forum would advise against a 10gallon for an adult Leo but chances are someone out there has had success with it!
That is why I say it is partially an opinion based subject because we don't exactly know the "right" way.
cricket4u
New member
And if you really want to get technical these animals were never intended to be kept as pets, we removed them from their natural habitat to keep them as such though and because of this we will never be able to duplicate their natural environment and fully take advantage of their "Full Potential".
So why do people keep buying them to house them in fish tanks? Why not strive to provide the best possible conditions for your pet, but instead keep buying more? Some complain about paying for variety of food, but yet buy more geckos to feed the same cheap insects to. Why keep them in such small areas where they feel trapped and start glass climbing trying to escape? I'm sure you have heard this problem quite often yourself. Hoarding is a growing problem with geckos.
Although I'm sure almost every one on this forum would advise against a 10gallon for an adult Leo but chances are someone out there has had success with it!
Success? More like failures and premature deaths. Very few got lucky and reached their teens. Some people will not accept failure and have lied about the age of their gecko at death.
That is why I say it is partially an opinion based subject because we don't exactly know the "right" way.
No, experiments based on behavioral thermoregulating. A few methods used in protocol:
Optimal functioning within several microclimates provided- Activity level, Internal body temp, PT, Positioning, Bowel transit time, appetite
I told you above the minimum size is based on the size of the leo. Okay, I'm done trying to explain.
GeckoManiac91
New member
And if you really want to get technical these animals were never intended to be kept as pets, we removed them from their natural habitat to keep them as such though and because of this we will never be able to duplicate their natural environment and fully take advantage of their "Full Potential".
So why do people keep buying them to house them in fish tanks? Why not strive to provide the best possible conditions for your pet, but instead keep buying more? Some complain about paying for variety of food, but yet buy more geckos to feed the same cheap insects to. Why keep them in such small areas where they feel trapped and start glass climbing trying to escape? I'm sure you have heard this problem quite often yourself. Hoarding is a growing problem with geckos.
Although I'm sure almost every one on this forum would advise against a 10gallon for an adult Leo but chances are someone out there has had success with it!
Success? More like failures and premature deaths. Very few got lucky and reached their teens. Some people will not accept failure and have lied about the age of their gecko at death.
That is why I say it is partially an opinion based subject because we don't exactly know the "right" way.
No, experiments based on behavioral thermoregulating. A few methods used in protocol:
Optimal functioning within several microclimates provided- Activity level, Internal body temp, PT, Positioning, Bowel transit time, appetite
I told you above the minimum size is based on the size of the leo. Okay, I'm done trying to explain.
Alright, fair enough. I shall reconsider some of my thinking, thank you for your input
cricket4u
New member
Alright, fair enough. I shall reconsider some of my thinking, thank you for your input
You're welcome.
Muffins94
New member
I'm not going to get into the size debate However I would definitely advise you to at least do the quarantine, Steve. You would hate to have poor Nik get something from this new gecko, you'd beat yourself up about it. You've done such a good job taking care of him, don't jeopardize that. I strongly suggest quarantining the new gecko for at least a month or two, then introducing them. However I'm in favor of housing every gecko seperately.
However I would definitely advise you to at least do the quarantine, Steve. You would hate to have poor Nik get something from this new gecko, you'd beat yourself up about it. You've done such a good job taking care of him, don't jeopardize that. I strongly suggest quarantining the new gecko for at least a month or two, then introducing them. However I'm in favor of housing every gecko seperately.