Mealworms vs. crickets ***mealworms win !!!

[PINKY KILLER]

I will go with a varied diet and cricket/mealworm as a staple diet and dont gut load them with cat food it has a lot of crap if you read the ingredients to gut load them give fluker's cricket gut load and the calcuim plus WATER SPHERES

 

[Conched]

I will go with a varied diet and cricket/mealworm as a staple diet and dont gut load them with cat food it has a lot of crap if you read the ingredients to gut load them give fluker's cricket gut load and the calcuim plus WATER SPHERES

Is this the crap you are referring to in the cat food ? Come on how bad could this be, it is all clearly labeled !!

Grain products, plant protein products, processed grain by-products, animal protein products, forage products, can molasses, calcium, calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, DL-methionine, Vitamin A acetate, D-activated animal sterol (source of Vitamin D3), Vitamin E supplement, Vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, niacin bisulfite complex, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, sodium selenite, biotin, manganese sulfate, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, and cobalt sulfate.

 

[Conched]

I picked up some lentils today. They are often referred to as the worlds most perfect food. I am going to see if the mealworms will eat them. I will see if the crickets will eat the lentils over the weekend. For those of you not familiar with lentils they are a legume that occurs naturally in the Leo's natural habitat, in fact there are over 25 different wild varieties. Needless to say insects feed on these. So my thinking here is I can gut load my live food with the same types of food the insects that are fed upon by wild leo's eat. I will continue to supplement with the calcium(no D3) and a multivitamin.

Here is a link to the nutritional data: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4338/2

The nutritional integrity of lentils seems to surpass that of any commercial grade gut feed that you can get for your feeders. Some lentils and a piece of carrot to serve as moisture might be a winning ticket and very easy to keep handy as I always have these items in the house.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I picked up some lentils today. They are often referred to as the worlds most perfect food. I am going to see if the mealworms will eat them. I will see if the crickets will eat the lentils over the weekend. For those of you not familiar with lentils they are a legume that occurs naturally in the Leo's natural habitat, in fact there are over 25 different wild varieties. Needless to say insects feed on these. So my thinking here is I can gut load my live food with the same types of food the insects that are fed upon by wild leo's eat. I will continue to supplement with the calcium(no D3) and a multivitamin.

Here is a link to the nutritional data: Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Lentils, mature seeds, cooked, boiled, without salt

The nutritional integrity of lentils seems to surpass that of any commercial grade gut feed that you can get for your feeders. Some lentils and a piece of carrot to serve as moisture might be a winning ticket and very easy to keep handy as I always have these items in the house.

2) Feeding carrots to feeders is counterproductive to achieving the Ca ratio we wish to achieve: 1.5-2.0:1.0 for feeders fed geckos. Carrots have a 1:2.3 Ca.

I don't understand why you still wish to feed carrots when they are exactly the opposite of the balance we wish to achieve in our feeders?

Try collard greens for moisture. They have an excellent ratio of calcium to phosphorus. Dandelion flowers and greens are good too.

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-feeding-issues/68574-cricket-guidelines.html

 

[Conched]

I don't understand why you still wish to feed carrots when they are exactly the opposite of the balance we wish to achieve in our feeders?

Try collard greens for moisture. They have an excellent ratio of calcium to phosphorus. Dandelion flowers and greens are good too.

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-feeding-issues/68574-cricket-guidelines.html

I see you are an early bird like me;-) I understand what you are saying about the Ca ratio in the Carrot, I guess I fail to see why adding powdered Ca as a supplement to the diet would not offset that ratio ?? Is that not the purpose for adding the additional Ca to the diet. Insects typically have low if any Ca. Crickets have a huge Ca ratio imbalance which kind of interferes with your theory.
In fact it is 345ppm Ca : 4238ppm P ??

Elizabeth - I sent you a PM but I can't tell if it went through.

 

[PINKY KILLER]

In cat food their is preservatives that could be fatal to your reptile and like Elizabeth said use collard greens as their gutload and also provides them with moisture that in return it will end up in geckos stomach

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I see you are an early bird like me;-) I understand what you are saying about the Ca ratio in the Carrot, I guess I fail to see why adding powdered Ca as a supplement to the diet would not offset that ratio ?? Is that not the purpose for adding the additional Ca to the diet. Insects typically have low if any Ca. Crickets have a huge Ca ratio imbalance which kind of interferes with your theory.
In fact it is 345ppm Ca : 4238ppm P ??

Elizabeth - I sent you a PM but I can't tell if it went through.

Thank you for your very thoughtful PM, Conched. I am behind on gecko life.

That is what I am saying, sort of. We want to create a Ca ratio from 1.5-2.0:1.0 in our feeders. Adding anything like carrots, is counterproductive to doing that. No?

 

[Conched]

Thank you for your very thoughtful PM, Conched. I am behind on gecko life.

That is what I am saying, sort of. We want to create a Ca ratio from 1.5-2.0:1.0 in our feeders. Adding anything like carrots, is counterproductive to doing that. No?

Based on what I can find the Ca ratio in Carrots is
Calcium, Ca 42 mg
Phosphorus, P 45 mg

I would not say that ratio is counter productive, I would call it a "wash". Keep in mind that I am using them more for the moisture aspect, the additional vitamins and minerals are big bonus. The calcium supplement is where you are going to find that sweet spot for turning the Ca ratio in your favor.

 

[Conched]

In cat food their is preservatives that could be fatal to your reptile and like Elizabeth said use collard greens as their gutload and also provides them with moisture that in return it will end up in geckos stomach

Pinky - The nutritional data I listed previously was taken directly off the label of the Flukers Cricket gut load that you recommended. If you have researched these items thoroughly and have determined that it suits your needs than go for it. Best I can tell the Fluker gut load is a viatmin supplement and would replace dusting the animals with a vitamin supplement. It is also worth noting that about 75% of the ingredients in the Flukers gut load can be found in cat food ( I compared them both). I am not advocating feeding cat food here, just sharing the data.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Conched ~

The data I have shared was from charts recently given to me by a vet. The info was adapted from the 15th edition of Food Values of Portions Commonly Used...Bowes & Church, revised by Jean Pennington, 15th edition.

Note that there is a 19th edition out copyright in 2010.

 

[Conched]

Conched ~

The data I have shared was from charts recently given to me by a vet. The info was adapted from the 15th edition of Food Values of Portions Commonly Used...Bowes & Church, revised by Jean Pennington, 15th edition.

Note that there is a 19th edition out copyright in 2010.

Elizabeth - Here is the link to the United States Department of Agriculture nutritional data for carrots.

Show Foods

According to this nutrtional breakdown it is Ca 33 : P 35.

I think the data chart you are using has flawed data. Everything I have researched is consstent with the USDA findings.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Elizabeth - Here is the link to the United States Department of Agriculture nutritional data for carrots.

Show Foods

According to this nutrtional breakdown it is Ca 33 : P 35.

I think the data chart you are using has flawed data. Everything I have researched is consstent with the USDA findings.

Thanks for sharing your research and the link which changes the data I have been given, Conched . I wonder how the other fruits and veggies on my lists compare with the USDA findings?

 

[Conched]

Thanks for sharing your research and the link which changes the data I have been given, Conched . I wonder how the other fruits and veggies on my lists compare with the USDA findings?

Elizabeth - Here is the fruit and veggie link Foods List it has over 800 fruits and veggies. Cooked, uncooked, canned etc... I am sure you can find whatever you need.

I was really hoping the mealworms would eat the lentils but they would not touch them.

NC state has a lab nearby that will do nutritional testing. I wonder if they will test pet food ?? I was thinking I could gutload some mealies for a week shake and bake them with the calcium and vitamin supplement and then send them off for testing. Then I would for sure what I am feeding.

I have found plentey of nutritional data on mealworms, but nothing about mealworms that have been custom gutloaded and supplemented.