tail rot?

HeKai

New member
I read some of the other posts and pictures and that is what it seems to be going on for my leo. I am trying to leave him alone, as he doesn't need more stress. I did take a picture (no flash and the lighting is a lot less than the picture would indicate). Checking his temps too. The worry and injury is making me a bit of an idiot and making me paranoid about temperatures and whatnot. This injury is about a week old at this point and it is hard to tell if there is black because I don't want to be taking him into the light. He needs to be left alone and not handled, pretty sure he is unhappy about my hand in his home checking temps as it is.

I would take him to a vet except, as you all point out, surgical removal of the tail is potentially more damaging than letting it come off on its own. Not to mention the considerable stress he would be put under for the visit.

I can include more info as/if needed but he isn't eating... a few things could be going on, stress being a big one... Like I said, I am not acting well-sick with worry.

IMG_1091.jpgIMG_1084.jpg
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Welcome to Geckos Unlimited.

Best thing to do is to make an appointment with a reptile vet for this tail issue.

Please complete this questionnaire.

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...68527-helping-your-sick-gecko-read-first.html

How close do your cage temperatures measure up to these:

Temperatures for all leos regardless of size:
88-93 F (31-34 C) ground temp at warm end inside the warm dry hide
no greater than 85 F (29.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
no greater than 75 F (24.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the cool end

Leave the UTH on 24/7. Can turn off overhead heating at night.
 
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HeKai

New member
I made an appointment-just don't know if this is a normal way to loose a tail. I hear that small geckos don't respond well to antibiotics. Maybe the vet will say, "leave it alone, it will fall off on it's own." But yeah, I am going just in case.
 

HeKai

New member
General Information
Species of lizard: Eublepharis macularius
Gecko's name: Akinna (long i sound, don't know why it has two enns)
Morph: normal
Gender: male
Age: adult
Weight: 45 grams (probably not now with the tail disappearing)
Total length: about 16 cm noise to tail tip (before)
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: the same
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): previous owner
Captive bred or wild caught: captive

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x height): 51 cm X 28 cm X 32 cm
Cage (type, size): 10 gallon aquarium
Substrate provided: was on sand switched back to paper towel
Types of hiding places provided: magnetic side exo terra dry hide at warm end, second hide moist at the moment also at warm end-overturned and darkened plastic container
Is there a humidity hide? location? spray in the morning and keeping wet paper towel in second, plastic hide
Please describe any other furnishings: water dish, two artificial plants and some cork
List recent changes in the environment, if any: hmm, switch it up sometimes, since his tail incident been working to leave him alone. Added thicker paper towel outside his exoterra hide as there is less protection from the UTH (on rheostat) and temps were getting up to 94-96-scared me. Now turning off at night because I can't constantly monitor temp.

Lighting
Artificial lighting: none-nocturnal, don't want to mess up his circadian rhythms
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s):
Fluorescent (tube bulbs):
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: not that distant, maybe 3-4 feet-no direct sunlight ever.

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? yes-digital on a metal probe inside his hide (btw been told the way I have been heating him is a bad idea, that it traps heat. Been like that for months and until I had my recent panic about temps it stayed reasonably consistent. Double check as best as possible with laser pointer/infa red ZooMed thermometer-seems consistent with probe)
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): BIOS indoor/outdoor thermometer with attached probe and ZooMed temp gun
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: ranges, sorry in F because of ZooMed readings... 77-94... right now I have 88 in his moist hide where he is trying to sleep-he isn't on the substrate-plastic lid and wet paper towel on top of glass and other paper towel
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 77
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: 75
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): UTH
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): just sticky feet on tile, tile on floor
Are you using a thermostat(s)? No, in process of getting some
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? The exoterra one where apparently the heat gets trapped
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? not till recently-depends. Don't want him burned so turned off at night-bad, goes down to 77

Humidity no idea. I spray and usually provide a moist hide. Definitely when he goes into shed. Often I miss sheds (presumably) because of moist hide
Is the humidity measured?
Humidity range:

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: wax worms once a week (maybe two) otherwise meal worms. Usually eats 10-15 at a go. Not eating, has had one meal worm and one wax worm in two weeks. Wasn't eating before the tail problems for a about a week (had been a pig before but tried some silk worms, they were big and he ignored them, hasn't eaten regularly since). Refuses crickets.
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms:
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? carrot, when I plan on feeding him I keep them out of the fridge and give them carrot to stay alive and hydrated
How often do you feed your gecko? having a hard time giving him space because I am worried-before this I would offer every three days or so. He is used to having his hide taken out and food moving on the floor which he will cat. If a dish is left in his cage he tends to ignore it (except wax worms)
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? I just switched to Repashy from exo terra Ca + D3 and multivitamins because it was recommended
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? Repashy multivitamin
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? no, when he was eating, dusted approximately every other feeding
Multivitamins (include brand name)? above, one product
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet:

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs:
I assumed it was a burn, another site with some people very familiar with geckos and reptiles suggested that a burn would indicated very high temps and he would have likely died. I am guessing his tail got squashed pinched or something similar. He was out and about and crawled under my art portfolio, can't remember if I was too slow or why he was even allowed under there, It is heavy and I didn't think there would be much space. In any case, I wonder if when I lifted it to get him out, whether I pinched his tail. When he came out there was some skin hanging off his tail. It was very strange. Stupidly I pulled that piece off. By the next day the tip looked lifeless. It is now about half his tail. It is all scabby or peeled looking and pretty dead looking. The "healthy" part doesn't look that healthy to me. Seeing a vet tomorrow.
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? decreased. He used to look up at the mesh and then proceed to climb the highest thing he could find (sigh, made me worry about my husbandry) but if I put my hand in he would climb on (he normally ignores my hand or crawls over it).
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? decreased
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): presumably loss. Not handling him.
Discharge from the eyes or nose: nope
Increased breathing rate or effort:can't tell, he sometimes breathes more when I watch him anyway,
Change in the droppings: they were normal 3 or 4 days ago as were urates
Urates
---white or yellowish:whitish
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: smaller and consistent with his other poops
Abnormal skin color or shedding: tail
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: no
Weakness: not really, just obvious that his tail is bothering and/or hurting him

Previous problems and/or illnesses: none

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household three snakes, king, carpet python and ball python
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: no
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): no
Are any of your other pets ill? no
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
I made an appointment-just don't know if this is a normal way to loose a tail. I hear that small geckos don't respond well to antibiotics. Maybe the vet will say, "leave it alone, it will fall off on it's own." But yeah, I am going just in case.

Be sure to update your thread after you see the vet.

Hope to get back with you later today re the questionnaire.
 
Last edited:

GeckoManiac91

New member
General Information
Species of lizard: Eublepharis macularius
Gecko's name: Akinna (long i sound, don't know why it has two enns)
Morph: normal
Gender: male
Age: adult
Weight: 45 grams (probably not now with the tail disappearing)
Total length: about 16 cm noise to tail tip (before)
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: the same
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): previous owner
Captive bred or wild caught: captive

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x height): 51 cm X 28 cm X 32 cm
Cage (type, size): 10 gallon aquarium
Substrate provided: was on sand switched back to paper towel
Types of hiding places provided: magnetic side exo terra dry hide at warm end, second hide moist at the moment also at warm end-overturned and darkened plastic container
Is there a humidity hide? location? spray in the morning and keeping wet paper towel in second, plastic hide
Please describe any other furnishings: water dish, two artificial plants and some cork
List recent changes in the environment, if any: hmm, switch it up sometimes, since his tail incident been working to leave him alone. Added thicker paper towel outside his exoterra hide as there is less protection from the UTH (on rheostat) and temps were getting up to 94-96-scared me. Now turning off at night because I can't constantly monitor temp.

Lighting
Artificial lighting: none-nocturnal, don't want to mess up his circadian rhythms
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s):
Fluorescent (tube bulbs):
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: not that distant, maybe 3-4 feet-no direct sunlight ever.

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? yes-digital on a metal probe inside his hide (btw been told the way I have been heating him is a bad idea, that it traps heat. Been like that for months and until I had my recent panic about temps it stayed reasonably consistent. Double check as best as possible with laser pointer/infa red ZooMed thermometer-seems consistent with probe)
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): BIOS indoor/outdoor thermometer with attached probe and ZooMed temp gun
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: ranges, sorry in F because of ZooMed readings... 77-94... right now I have 88 in his moist hide where he is trying to sleep-he isn't on the substrate-plastic lid and wet paper towel on top of glass and other paper towel
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 77
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: 75
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): UTH
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): just sticky feet on tile, tile on floor
Are you using a thermostat(s)? No, in process of getting some
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? The exoterra one where apparently the heat gets trapped
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? not till recently-depends. Don't want him burned so turned off at night-bad, goes down to 77

Humidity no idea. I spray and usually provide a moist hide. Definitely when he goes into shed. Often I miss sheds (presumably) because of moist hide
Is the humidity measured?
Humidity range:

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: wax worms once a week (maybe two) otherwise meal worms. Usually eats 10-15 at a go. Not eating, has had one meal worm and one wax worm in two weeks. Wasn't eating before the tail problems for a about a week (had been a pig before but tried some silk worms, they were big and he ignored them, hasn't eaten regularly since). Refuses crickets.
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms:
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? carrot, when I plan on feeding him I keep them out of the fridge and give them carrot to stay alive and hydrated
How often do you feed your gecko? having a hard time giving him space because I am worried-before this I would offer every three days or so. He is used to having his hide taken out and food moving on the floor which he will cat. If a dish is left in his cage he tends to ignore it (except wax worms)
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? I just switched to Repashy from exo terra Ca + D3 and multivitamins because it was recommended
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? Repashy multivitamin
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? no, when he was eating, dusted approximately every other feeding
Multivitamins (include brand name)? above, one product
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet:

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs:
I assumed it was a burn, another site with some people very familiar with geckos and reptiles suggested that a burn would indicated very high temps and he would have likely died. I am guessing his tail got squashed pinched or something similar. He was out and about and crawled under my art portfolio, can't remember if I was too slow or why he was even allowed under there, It is heavy and I didn't think there would be much space. In any case, I wonder if when I lifted it to get him out, whether I pinched his tail. When he came out there was some skin hanging off his tail. It was very strange. Stupidly I pulled that piece off. By the next day the tip looked lifeless. It is now about half his tail. It is all scabby or peeled looking and pretty dead looking. The "healthy" part doesn't look that healthy to me. Seeing a vet tomorrow.
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? decreased. He used to look up at the mesh and then proceed to climb the highest thing he could find (sigh, made me worry about my husbandry) but if I put my hand in he would climb on (he normally ignores my hand or crawls over it).
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? decreased
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): presumably loss. Not handling him.
Discharge from the eyes or nose: nope
Increased breathing rate or effort:can't tell, he sometimes breathes more when I watch him anyway,
Change in the droppings: they were normal 3 or 4 days ago as were urates
Urates
---white or yellowish:whitish
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: smaller and consistent with his other poops
Abnormal skin color or shedding: tail
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: no
Weakness: not really, just obvious that his tail is bothering and/or hurting him

Previous problems and/or illnesses: none

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household three snakes, king, carpet python and ball python
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: no
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): no
Are any of your other pets ill? no

Your ground temps are very low :( they need a hot side temp of 90-95 to help disgust food. Getting it down to 77 is way to low. Also, are you using a cool hide?
 

HeKai

New member
no, because I am concerned the cool side is too low. I panicked when I found out that the set up I had could be dangerous for him. Right now he is in his moist hide and the temp is reading 86. I get scared around 90, I thought that was the top temp otherwise I would risk burning him.

I will get a third hide ready for tonight. He is still sleeping :)
 

GeckoManiac91

New member
no, because I am concerned the cool side is too low. I panicked when I found out that the set up I had could be dangerous for him. Right now he is in his moist hide and the temp is reading 86. I get scared around 90, I thought that was the top temp otherwise I would risk burning him.

I will get a third hide ready for tonight. He is still sleeping :)

You aren't using a cool hide because you're concerned the cool side is too low?
You want to aim for air temperatures between 80-85 on the hot side and 70-75 on the cool side.
Be sure to check out Elizabeth's Care Sheet which is linked in her posts :)
 

HeKai

New member
Shall do... I did do a lot of research after he was given to me and until recently, he was active, a great eater, alert and inquisitive.

BTW, was in the process of getting a 20 gallon tank, long story, but to get it requires lots of sanding... too noisy for a sick gecko I would think. Anyway, stress of a move would not be great either. His ten gallon is just shy (so yes, I get it, too small) of four times his length. He is only 6 inches or so long! :)
 

HeKai

New member
clarification here... during the day is it that crucial if the cool end of the hide is a few degrees higher? Ambient temperature in the summer... a little hard to control... I am guessing something like 26 degrees is not a big deal.

Any tips, in the future when he is eating regularly again, to get him back on crickets. He just ignores them. Silk worms are hard to get and last time I got them he did not seem interested (he has eaten them before). How big can prey items be relative to the gecko? I suspect these particular silkies were too large for him.

Thanks! :D And I will keep you all updated! I feel a lot better knowing that he is seeing a vet tomorrow. I also found out today that his body will have cut off the blood flow to the tail which is why it looks dead. He is still alert, so that is good at least. Easy to worry when you baby is sick!
 

HeKai

New member
To clarify GeckoManiac91, the hide that is now moist was his cool hide for the summer. I have two small UTH on the hot side, I turned one off for the summer... that meant that he had a warm hide and a cool hide. It got quite warm a few weeks back and with the two UTH surface temps seemed dangerously hot (96 on my temp gun). :) anyway, in process of getting a third hide for him. Just bleached and rinced it... let it gas off (if any bleach left) and it is his.
 

GeckoManiac91

New member
clarification here... during the day is it that crucial if the cool end of the hide is a few degrees higher? Ambient temperature in the summer... a little hard to control... I am guessing something like 26 degrees is not a big deal.

Any tips, in the future when he is eating regularly again, to get him back on crickets. He just ignores them. Silk worms are hard to get and last time I got them he did not seem interested (he has eaten them before). How big can prey items be relative to the gecko? I suspect these particular silkies were too large for him

Thanks! :D And I will keep you all updated! I feel a lot better knowing that he is seeing a vet tomorrow. I also found out today that his body will have cut off the blood flow to the tail which is why it looks dead. He is still alert, so that is good at least. Easy to worry when you baby is sick!
26 is not too bad but you want to aim a little lower for a constant temperature :) I have been experiencing a heat problem as well, not too drastic but still my temperatures go up a bit. I wouldn't worry too much, they're very hardy animals :)

Some Leo's are picky eaters! Just try variety but I'm not too sure if there's anything you can do to make them eat a certain type of food, if they don't like it, they don't like it :p The food you feed your gecko should be no bigger than the space between there eyes.

You mentioned feeding wax worms a lot? Yes?

Glad to help :)
 

GeckoManiac91

New member
To clarify GeckoManiac91, the hide that is now moist was his cool hide for the summer. I have two small UTH on the hot side, I turned one off for the summer... that meant that he had a warm hide and a cool hide. It got quite warm a few weeks back and with the two UTH surface temps seemed dangerously hot (96 on my temp gun). :) anyway, in process of getting a third hide for him. Just bleached and rinced it... let it gas off (if any bleach left) and it is his.

The UTH should cover 1/3 of the tank, how small did you get that you needed two? Be careful with the bleach, be sure to keep rinsing and drying until all fumes are gone, you may not be able to use the new hide until tomorrow :(
 

HeKai

New member
thanks for the bleach update.

the two cover a third of the tank... so they are both really small. Seemed not so good to have both on in the hot weather, as said. It doesn't get like that often but it was up around 28 outside.

Well then, about the food. He used to eat supers that were much bigger than that. So feeding him silk worms could be an issue as they are usually pretty big. He normally gets two wax worms a week, max. His staple is meal worms. There really isn't anything else readily available, except butters and crickets. He is meh about butters (and they are a treat) and used to eat crickets but has been off them for 5 months or more, I would say.

He seems lethargic, and he was cozy warm today and is pretty warm now. Sigh.
 

GeckoManiac91

New member
thanks for the bleach update.

the two cover a third of the tank... so they are both really small. Seemed not so good to have both on in the hot weather, as said. It doesn't get like that often but it was up around 28 outside.

Well then, about the food. He used to eat supers that were much bigger than that. So feeding him silk worms could be an issue as they are usually pretty big. He normally gets two wax worms a week, max. His staple is meal worms. There really isn't anything else readily available, except butters and crickets. He is meh about butters (and they are a treat) and used to eat crickets but has been off them for 5 months or more, I would say.

He seems lethargic, and he was cozy warm today and is pretty warm now. Sigh.

Be careful with the wax worms...twice a week is a lot actually. They are fatty and are really only suggested for fattening up a gecko. I've only fed them to my Leo once and it was just for a little birthday treat Hehe :) They are basically like chocolate bars for Leo's so you may want to reduce how often you feed wax worms?
 

HeKai

New member
okay... I was trying to fatten him up. I worry WAAAYYY too much. Point taken. Though, they aren't even appealing to him right now.

Thank you for your help. I learn so much and then realize how much more I have to learn.
 

GeckoManiac91

New member
okay... I was trying to fatten him up. I worry WAAAYYY too much. Point taken. Though, they aren't even appealing to him right now.

Thank you for your help. I learn so much and then realize how much more I have to learn.

Hey, there's always more to learn for everybody and anybody :)
 

HeKai

New member
Saw the vet today. Not sure if there is an infection or not so Akinna starts antibiotics on Friday. I get to try to get him to eat before then, otherwise we have an issue getting antibiotics into him. So worrisome having an ill animal :(

Thanks for your help, though, guys!
 
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