Lighting & UTH

[ChiTea]

More newbie questions...

I inherited my leopard gecko a few months ago. The previous owner had him for 3 1/2 years, and that's about how old he is.

I've been doing all the same things the previous owner was doing, but one by one, some of those things are of increasing concern to me. Here are the 2 most recent worries:

1. The tank is heated by a red heat lamp bulb. This is what my little leo has been living with for 3 1/2 years, but now I'm reading it may not be the best thing for him?

2. The previous owner only got a UTH about a year ago, but hardly ever used it. The other day, my place was chilly, so I decided to turn it on for a while (when I was going to be home for a long time so I could keep an eye on it). However, my leo wouldn't go anywhere near it when it was on, and it's under his favorite hide. I turned the heater off, and he went right back in there. I tried this a few more times on different days - same result. Is it something he just needs to get used to and really is best for him? Or if he's been without it for so long, he doesn't need it?

He seems pretty healthy to me. Chill during the day, but fairly active at night. I'm working on getting more stimulating decor for him. Always loves feeding time - never had a problem with his eating, except for mealworms (won't go near them - another recent experiment).

Any/all advice is appreciated!

thanks.

 

[Mardy]

When using a UTH you need to test the floor temperature to see how hot it gets. It's common for UTH to get too hot for the geckos. They normally prefer somewhere between 88-95. It's easy for the UTH to get over 95 that's why you'll want to be able to test the floor temperature. Best way to test the floor temperature is either with a digital thermometer with a probe, or a temperature gun.

Now it's one thing to know the temperature of the floor, it's another to control it. You can purchase a thermostat to control your UTH temperature. The thermostat will turn your UTH off when it gets too hot, then turn it back on when it cools enough. So once you have a thermostat hooked up to your UTH, you'll be able to leave it on 24/7 and know that your gecko will have proper belly heat. A good cheap but effective thermostat with great reviews is Hydrofarm.

As for red light, it's usually only used for night time viewing, or when you need to supplement heating such as when your ambient gets below 70 on a consistent basis at night. If you must use light I prefer normal white light during the day, and moonglow bulb at night. Or some use ceramic heat emitters to supplement heating the ambient air when ambient gets too cold (under 70 on a consistent basis). You can actually use CHE anytime day or night as needed, which is nice.

 

[ChiTea]

Hi Mardy,

Thanks for the advice (again! ). I have a digital thermometer with a probe, and it's definitely not getting too hot. When I had the heater on, the temp only went up a couple degrees. I felt it (I'm sure humans feel heat differently than reptiles) but it only felt a little warm to me. I think I should test it again. Now that I think about it, it's possible the probe was on the edge of the UTH - I should place it more towards the middle to get a more accurate reading.

I'm definitely going to look into a CHE. I've read on this site that a lot of people like them. If I get one, what type of bulb would I use instead of the heat bulb?

thanks!

 

[Mardy]

If it's warm to your touch, it's likely very warm as our skin temperature is already in the low 90's. You'll want to put that probe inside that hide you said your gecko likes to lay in. Test the floor temperature inside that hide and out, see what they are.

As for CHE, you'll want to start with the lower wattage ones so you don't end up raising the ambient too hot. Zoo med makes a 60 watt one, and exo terra makes a 40w and a 60w that GeckoManiac91 recently bought. It works well for him, so maybe he can give you some tips on how to use it properly with the setup.

 

[ChiTea]

Thanks so much for your help! I'll let you know how it works out.

 

[GeckoManiac91]

If it's warm to your touch, it's likely very warm as our skin temperature is already in the low 90's. You'll want to put that probe inside that hide you said your gecko likes to lay in. Test the floor temperature inside that hide and out, see what they are.

As for CHE, you'll want to start with the lower wattage ones so you don't end up raising the ambient too hot. Zoo med makes a 60 watt one, and exo terra makes a 40w and a 60w that GeckoManiac91 recently bought. It works well for him, so maybe he can give you some tips on how to use it properly with the setup.

I use Exo-Terra CHE's and I must say they are wonderful! You're probably best with a 60watt, they get my temperatures around the 83 or 84 mark. A 40watt I've found stays around 79-81. But again, it all depends where you live as well If its slightly hotter where you live then a 40watt is probably what you wanna go for. You can always by a thermostat for them as well if they get too hot!

One thing I found as well was when I was using Heat Light Bulbs they heated my whole tank a little bit to the point where my cool side was around 77. With the CHE's I have I get a very nice temperature gradient and the cool side is normally 10degrees lower than the hotside constantly.


Thanks Mardy! :biggrin:

 

[ChiTea]

Ok, I just did another test on the UTH. I moved the probe and got a more accurate reading, but the hottest it got was 92.6 - the probe was in the center of the heater inside the hide. He still won't go near it, but I've read that 92.6 is in the normal range?

 

[GeckoManiac91]

Ok, I just did another test on the UTH. I moved the probe and got a more accurate reading, but the hottest it got was 92.6 - the probe was in the center of the heater inside the hide. He still won't go near it, but I've read that 92.6 is in the normal range?

What might your cool side temperatures be? Perhaps a picture of your enclosure?
Does he stay clear of the hot side 24/7 or just during the day?

92.6 is a perfect surface temperature to me!

 

[ChiTea]

The cool side is 78. His favorite hide is under the heat lamp, and he's in there most of the day. Here's a quick pic (my real camera is already packed - I'm moving next week). The heat lamp is mounted on the right side, the tank is 30L x 12W x 18H. The middle hide is the moist one, and the black one is on the cool side. That bark thing is a hollow tube - he loves walking through it.

 

[GeckoManiac91]

The cool side is 78. His favorite hide is under the heat lamp, and he's in there most of the day. Here's a quick pic (my real camera is already packed - I'm moving next week). The heat lamp is mounted on the right side, the tank is 30L x 12W x 18H. The middle hide is the moist one, and the black one is on the cool side. That bark thing is a hollow tube - he loves walking through it.

View attachment 24676

Just to double check, your heat mat and heat lamp are in the same side? Judging from "his favourite hide is under the heat lamp, and he's in there most of the day" I get the impression you have the heat mat on one side of the enclosure and the heat lamp on the other because of how you said earlier that he's avoiding his heat mat? All heating devices should be on the same side to create a temperature gradient from hot to cool.

If your cool side is 78 I really don't see a need to have the heat lamp on at night (assuming it is) or even during the day for that matter. You really want a cool side air temperature between 70-75 and a warm side air temp between 80 and 85.

 

[ChiTea]

Yes. The lamp and the UTH are on the same side. I know it's not the best pic. The warm side averages 82. I don't use the UTH because he doesn't seem to like it. His previous owner never used it. I don't remember what the deal was with it - why he never used it. I only recently became concerned about it because of things I was reading about UTH's and digestion.

 

[GeckoManiac91]

Yes. The lamp and the UTH are on the same side. I know it's not the best pic. The warm side averages 82. I don't use the UTH because he doesn't seem to like it. His previous owner never used it. I don't remember what the deal was with it - why he never used it. I only recently became concerned about it because of things I was reading about UTH's and digestion.

Oops, sorry for the confusion :S

I do think this is something to be concerned about because of the whole digestion aspect. I really don't know what else it could be Sorry! Just want to add though that you don't really have a good temperature gradient. 82 on the warm side and 78 on the cool side isn't that much of a change in temperature. Your cool end should be about 10degrees lower than the warm end.

Only thing that make sense and I can think of is that its too hot however the temperature of 92 isn't bad at all.

Mardy will probably have better advice and something more to add when he checks back in

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Yes. The lamp and the UTH are on the same side. I know it's not the best pic. The warm side averages 82. I don't use the UTH because he doesn't seem to like it. His previous owner never used it. I don't remember what the deal was with it - why he never used it. I only recently became concerned about it because of things I was reading about UTH's and digestion.

Best to put both the UTH and the overhead dome on separate thermostats. However, you could get away with a single thermostat if you place the overhead light/CHE on a rheostat and a timer.

With what type thermometers are you measuring those temperatures?

Temperatures for all leos regardless of size:
88-93 F (31-34 C) ground temp at warm end inside the warm dry hide
no greater than 85 F (29.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
no greater than 75 F (24.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the cool end

Leave the UTH on 24/7. Can turn off overhead heating at night.

Within a 30 inch tank you should be able to achieve the temps described above. Both an UTH and a 10 inch diameter dome are strongly suggested to provide leos with warm "zones" not just warm "spots".

 

[ChiTea]

Elizabeth,

I know you recommend leaving the UTH on 24/7 (I've read that all over this site) but he simply will not go near the end of tank when it's on, even when the overhead lamp is off. That's why I started this thread - I just want to make sure my little guy is ok.

 

[Mardy]

What does the floor temperature test out to be without the UTH on?

 

[ChiTea]

Right now, it's 84. That's pretty average. Even though he wasn't 'mine' until recently, he's lived in my apartment for the last 2 1/2 years, and I checked his warm temps every day to make sure it wasn't getting too hot (Los Angeles can get very warm in the summer). Anyways, it's always been within a couple degrees of 84, and he likes it. When his tank gets close to 90, he stands up and puts his tummy on the glass, like he doesn't like the heat.

 

[Mardy]

That's strange, 84 belly heat on the floor isn't high enough for them to digest food properly. You should shoot for 88 at the very least, 90 preferable, for the gecko's own good.

 

[ChiTea]

I can heat it up, but he won't go near it. At all. He just sort of stares at the area when it gets hot. He's funny. Here's his poop: normal? Again- sorry for the quality. This is on the side of his moist hide, that looks like a rock.

 

[cricket4u]

I can heat it up, but he won't go near it. At all. He just sort of stares at the area when it gets hot. He's funny. Here's his poop: normal? Again- sorry for the quality. This is on the side of his moist hide, that looks like a rock. View attachment 24690

Hi,


1)One thing that I did not hear you mention was a thermostat. This is important in order to stabilize the temperature he is comfortable in.

2) Do you have an extra thermometer to compare the one you're using for accuracy? Always keep at least 2.

3) My female leo likes the ground temp at 86f and will not tolerate any higher. Never has had any problems with digestion. They will only have problems digesting if the air temp is too cold and the UTH is low. I've tried all ways in the past and what I came up with is, they do best with mild belly heat and warm air temp.


Perhaps I should elaborate a bit. You mentioned that even with the red bulb off, he will not stay in the warm hide while the UTH is on. Chances are the UTH temp of 92f is too warm for his comfort or the thermometer is not reading accurately.

My geckos will never use the hides that are over 90-91f ground temp at highest. So the temp itself may be a possibility, however it's important to compare it with a second thermometer for accuracy and use a thermostat to set the temp.

 

[cricket4u]

Just sharing an observation I may have not mentioned in the past. Their temperature preferences can change as they get older. This is one of the reasons I stress allowing more space often. Space will allow you to provide more than one warm side temp option. I've noticed that a few leos have moved to cooler hides after the age of around 6. For example: While they were young they liked it warmer and then after a certain age they move to the 88F hide as a favorite.