New Gecko Owner

[Kimcroley]

Hello all - newbie here!

I've been referring to this forum over the last couple of weeks prior to buying our first Leopard Geckos 5 days ago. I have a couple of questions that I'm a bit confused on so I apologize in advanced. As I said, I purchased two young geckos from petsmart 5 days ago for my twins 8th birthday. We have them housed in a 20 gallon long tank with a Med Zoo heating pad, a cave that we are using as their moist hide (which they like spending a lot of time in it) but venture out in the evening to other areas of the enclosure, a log cut out hide, reptile carpet, mini dome light above with a 50 watt day basking light, 50 watt red basking light for evening which the dome light is one the cooler side (opposite side of heating pad), 3 dishes that contain water (photo attached is before I changed out the larger corner bowl with two much smaller bowls) dry gecko food and calcium, wooden log that runs across from the cave to the wooden log, hygrometer and therm (both analog for now). The heating pad is on the side of the moist hide which is lined with moss. I picked the healthiest geckos from petsmart with one being a Murphy's Patternless and the other just a standard. Both are eating very well. No idea on the age but they are about 5 inches long. The standard already has a "bulge" under his nether region where the Murphy has nothing so I assume male and female. With that said said, does my set-up sound correct? I live in Atlanta, Georgia so we have high humidity here so my temp all day is around 80-85 and humidity stays around 50-60% so is that ok? I feed them every evening at dusk with crickets and meal worms dusted every other day with calcium and whatever they can consume in a 15 minute timeframe and boy are they eaters. I have not seen them shed yet so that is a bit of a concern but their skin, eyes, face look great. I do mist inside the moist cave but should I mist at all and do I need to mist the entire enclosure? I pooper scooper the enclosure everyday, which the poop is very healthy looking based on what I've read, and clean purified bottle water everyday. I have not handled them yet as I want them to get acclimated to their new home but did lightly pet both with my fingertip this evening for like a couple of seconds. The female is a bit more docile than the male as he seems skittish so I will not be forcing ourselves on him too quickly, just baby steps. So that is pretty much it in a nut shell. Just making sure I'm doing everything right.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi Kim ~

A warm welcome to Geckos Unlimited where geckophiles flourish.

Good on the 20 gallon LONG tank and some other things .

Best to house these little guys individually in minimum 20 gallon LONG tanks. Never want to keep 2 males together. They will fight, even to death! They will know their respective sexes before you do. Not even good to keep young pairs together. If the female becomes gravid before she is mature, eggbinding can result.

Please don't mind if I refer you to the Leo Caresheet linked below in my signature. There you will find many recommendations, including the proper temps for leos.

Temperatures for all leos regardless of size:
88-93 F (31-34 C) ground temp at warm end inside the warm dry hide
no greater than 85 F (29.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
no greater than 75 F (24.5 C) air temp - 4 inches above ground on the cool end

Leave the UTH on 24/7. Can turn off overhead heating at night.

In the meantime I strongly recommend tile (porcelain, ceramic, slate) as a substrate. Carpet harbors bacteria from the feces and the urine. Leos can get their teeth and toes stuck in the carpet :-(.

PS:
Misting leopard geckos is stressful for them. Best to dampen the moss or paper towels in their moist hides daily and keep it moist 24/7.

 

[Kimcroley]

Looks like my humidity levels are good but I may need to raise the heat up some since I'm at 80-84 all day and night. I has been up to 86 earlier but read elsewhere that was too high so I turned my ceiling fan on to bring the temp down. Their tank is in our lower family room as that is one of the coolest rooms in the house as we do not have a basement. There isn't a whole lot of natural light down there, just one window and a sliding glass door. Perfect TV viewing room

I knew sand was a no go, so I read on other posts to use the carpet. Almost went with tile but carpet was highly recommended. And no calcium with D3? Why is that? Getting conflicting reports on that one as well. Other than that, what do you think thus far with what I have based on the photo I attached and the info I supplied. Thanks much!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Looks like my humidity levels are good but I may need to raise the heat up some since I'm at 80-84 all day and night. I has been up to 86 earlier but read elsewhere that was too high so I turned my ceiling fan on to bring the temp down. Their tank is in our lower family room as that is one of the coolest rooms in the house as we do not have a basement. There isn't a whole lot of natural light down there, just one window and a sliding glass door. Perfect TV viewing room

I knew sand was a no go, so I read on other posts to use the carpet. Almost went with tile but carpet was highly recommended. And no calcium with D3? Why is that? Getting conflicting reports on that one as well. Other than that, what do you think thus far with what I have based on the photo I attached and the info I supplied. Thanks much!

You're welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmWmvT1d_TQ#t=34

Feeding in the evening is good .

Leos really need a thermal gradient as described in post #2. Each leo needs a warm dry hide, a warm moist hide, and a cool dry hide. It is important for them to have bare floor area to walk around.

Calcium with D3 kept in the tank 24/7 has the risk of an overdose. You want some D3 in their calcium/multivitamins.

Only keep plain calcium in the tank 24/7 if you wish. Vitamins and other supplements are described in some detail on the caresheet. Did you find it?

Have you a cool side and a warm end? In general what will the temps be from October through May?

 

[GeckoManiac91]

Hello and Welcome to GU

Elizabeth has covered pretty much everything

I would skip on the dry gecko food, stick to crickets, mealworms, hornworms, silk worms, butter worms and Phoenix worms.

Are you using a thermostat?

What brand of supplements and how often are you using them?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Kim ~

I have another idea. Might it work to keep just one of these leos for your twins?

I speak from experience: Once there were 2 brothers at the school where I worked. They were about age 8 and 10 when this happened. Their leos also shared a 20 gallon LONG tank. The older brother grew tired of cleaning up after the younger brother's leo. Well, one evening in June 2006 shortly prior to the end of the school year, the family phoned me to inquire whether I'd like this 1.1 pair of adult leos and their entire setup. I visited that very night to check these leos out. Soon after everything was delivered to my home.

By just keeping one leo, you could gauge your twins' interest. If all seems a go after about one year, then you might get a second leo. Well-cared for leos can live into their 20s. Your twins just turned 8. So there is plenty of time.

While a 20 gallon LONG tank is ideal for growing leos, by the time the leos reach adulthood a tank 4x the total length of the leo is recommended. This is especially crucial should you have giant morphs .

 

[Kimcroley]

Elizabeth, even though they are my sons, I'm the one taking care of them with their help. Its like all the of our pets we have, I take responsibility for them. I figured when they two Leos get older I'll probably get another enclosure for them.

GeckoManiac91, to answer your questions: Are you using a thermostat? Yes, a Petco analog not a digital at this time. Will upgrade to one in the near future. As of this morning the temp was 81.

What brand of supplements and how often are you using them? I have Zoo Med Repto Calcium without D3 & Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free Calcium with D3 Ultrafine Powder. I dust the crickets and meal worms with every other feeding with the Rep-Cal.

I still haven't received an answer on the humidity. This morning the humidity was up to 60%. Should I be misting the entire enclosure at all? Do I continue to mist the inside of their moist hide (heating pad is underneath)?

 

[GeckoManiac91]

Elizabeth, even though they are my sons, I'm the one taking care of them with their help. Its like all the of our pets we have, I take responsibility for them. I figured when they two Leos get older I'll probably get another enclosure for them.

GeckoManiac91, to answer your questions: Are you using a thermostat? Yes, a Petco analog not a digital at this time. Will upgrade to one in the near future. As of this morning the temp was 81.

What brand of supplements and how often are you using them? I have Zoo Med Repto Calcium without D3 & Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free Calcium with D3 Ultrafine Powder. I dust the crickets and meal worms with every other feeding with the Rep-Cal.

I still haven't received an answer on the humidity. This morning the humidity was up to 60%. Should I be misting the entire enclosure at all? Do I continue to mist the inside of their moist hide (heating pad is underneath)?

The thing is these geckos are already sexually mature. If you are true that there is a male and female the male will stress the female into breeding when that young gecko is in no age or state to carry eggs. There's always a chance that, that "female" is really a male and then you have fighting between them. Please, for the best interest of the geckos, separate them immediately...

A thermostat is something that connects to the heat mat (or any heating device) and prevents it from overheating. You set it at a certain temperature, it turns off once it reaches that temperature, drops a couple degrees, and then turns back on a again. This will prevent your UTH from burning your little geckos and is a necessity to have.

You should not need to mist the enclosure. Humidity levels between 20% and 40% are what you want. Even peaking up to 60% every now and then isn't a problem.

Have you had a chance to take a look at Elizabeth's Care Sheet?

 

[Muffins94]

Elizabeth, even though they are my sons, I'm the one taking care of them with their help. Its like all the of our pets we have, I take responsibility for them. I figured when they two Leos get older I'll probably get another enclosure for them.

GeckoManiac91, to answer your questions: Are you using a thermostat? Yes, a Petco analog not a digital at this time. Will upgrade to one in the near future. As of this morning the temp was 81.

What brand of supplements and how often are you using them? I have Zoo Med Repto Calcium without D3 & Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free Calcium with D3 Ultrafine Powder. I dust the crickets and meal worms with every other feeding with the Rep-Cal.

I still haven't received an answer on the humidity. This morning the humidity was up to 60%. Should I be misting the entire enclosure at all? Do I continue to mist the inside of their moist hide (heating pad is underneath)?

Congrats on the new geckos.
I do recommend separating them.
As for the questions you answered in your last post, are you sure you have a thermostat? I'm sure you have a thermometer, however you need a thermostat attached to your under tank heater. You set it to a certain temp, and it kicks on and off to maintain proper temperatures. A good one that we all recommend is the Hydorfarm one sold on Amazon for around $30. Totally different from a thermometer. As for those, glad you're going to switch. You want a digital with a probe for your warm hide flooring and then two for monitoring air temps. That humidity is rather high, I recommend only using one water bowl to possibly lower it. Only spray in humid hide, nothing more. Too much humidity and moisture can cause respiratory problems.

 

[Kimcroley]

Thanks for all of the advice. I'll go out this weekend and pick up a thermostat for the heating pad. I'll also look into pricing for another tank/set-up but I may need to wait a few weeks as I just dropped a lot on this set-up. The two Leo's are still young so I have a little time. They are cute together as they like to lay together in their warm hide. I did notice today that it looks like they going to be shedding soon. Skin/coloring on the tails is very pale and the color on their body looks a little lighter. So I just assume to keep misting the inside of the warm hide to assist with the shedding? Is there a time of day that is better for misting than others?

 

[Mardy]

It's a good idea to have a moist hide that stays moist for at least 2-3 days, this way you don't have to worry about misting every day. You can setup something simple like using a gladware container, cut a hole on the top or side, and stuff coco fiber (ecoearth), wet paper towels, or moss inside. Wet them so they are humid, but not dripping wet. This type of setup will allow you to keep a moist hide that stays moist for 2-3 days, and will be easier on you and good for the geckos (so they always have a moist hide choice). I personally prefer coco fiber for females (so they can dig), and wet papwer towels for males.

Example:

or a retail store bought one, such as the one you see below with a gecko peeking out (zoo med reptile shelter):

 

[Kimcroley]

Does it matter what side the tank the moist hide is placed? I plenty of those Tupperware containers and All Living Things green moss.

 

[GeckoManiac91]

Does it matter what side the tank the moist hide is placed? I plenty of those Tupperware containers and All Living Things green moss.

At least half way over the heat mat

 

[Kimcroley]

Ok, here is the updated tank. Removed the dry food dish and the calcium dish (I dust crickets and meal worms every other day for feeding). Replaced the large water dish with a smaller one. Added the moist hide with half of it over the heating pad and half off. Cave is over over most of the heater and the half log is under the light but cool inside. How does it look?

 

[Kimcroley]

Mardy, like your Facebook page and your website. The first video I saw was the tail waving. That happened with my Murphy's Patternless the other night while hunting crickets. She did not strike the other gecko but going to take precautions and see if I can find a deal on the Craigslist for another set-up. She is a bit bulkier and becoming a little more acclimated to me where the other is still skittish.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thanks for all of the advice. I'll go out this weekend and pick up a thermostat for the heating pad. I'll also look into pricing for another tank/set-up but I may need to wait a few weeks as I just dropped a lot on this set-up. The two Leo's are still young so I have a little time. They are cute together as they like to lay together in their warm hide. I did notice today that it looks like they going to be shedding soon. Skin/coloring on the tails is very pale and the color on their body looks a little lighter. So I just assume to keep misting the inside of the warm hide to assist with the shedding? Is there a time of day that is better for misting than others?

Thanks , Kim. Just saying, you might even like those Exo Terra 36 x 18 x 12 inch tanks with front doors. Don't have them myself, but the front doors make leo care much easier.

View attachment 25222

Ok, here is the updated tank. Removed the dry food dish and the calcium dish (I dust crickets and meal worms every other day for feeding). Replaced the large water dish with a smaller one. Added the moist hide with half of it over the heating pad and half off. Cave is over over most of the heater and the half log is under the light but cool inside. How does it look?

Those wee leos appreciate all this attention to their new home .

What size is the UTH mat?

I am concerned that with the 50 watt bulb over the cool end, the cool end temps may be too warm. How do your temps measure up?

 

[Kimcroley]

I almost bought one of those but ended up with the Zoo Med bearded dragon kit but I do have a 15 day return from Petsmart. A thought I have is I may return the whole set-up and go for the exo terra larger version and just pay the difference. I've only had the set for 6 days. The UTH mat is a Zoo med for a 10-20 gallon tank. The temps on the cool side are between 80-84 throughout the day and evening. Humidity is 55% tonight.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

It's a good idea to have a moist hide that stays moist for at least 2-3 days, this way you don't have to worry about misting every day. You can setup something simple like using a gladware container, cut a hole on the top or side, and stuff coco fiber (ecoearth), wet paper towels, or moss inside. Wet them so they are humid, but not dripping wet. This type of setup will allow you to keep a moist hide that stays moist for 2-3 days, and will be easier on you and good for the geckos (so they always have a moist hide choice). I personally prefer coco fiber for females (so they can dig), and wet papwer towels for males.

Example:

or a retail store bought one, such as the one you see below with a gecko peeking out (zoo med reptile shelter):

Mardy ~

I am just curious about this cuz I seem to see somewhat of a reflection or maybe a shadow of one hide on the slate??? Some people use straight slate as it comes from Home Depot or wherever. Others seal the slate with a food grade sealant. What did you do?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I almost bought one of those but ended up with the Zoo Med bearded dragon kit but I do have a 15 day return from Petsmart. A thought I have is I may return the whole set-up and go for the exo terra larger version and just pay the difference. I've only had the set for 6 days. The UTH mat is a Zoo med for a 10-20 gallon tank. The temps on the cool side are between 80-84 throughout the day and evening. Humidity is 55% tonight.

You know, Kim, I think exchanging this 20 gallon LONG for the 36 x 18 x 12 is an excellent idea :yahoo:

That particular Zoo Med heat mat is too small for a 20 gallon LONG (30 x 12 x 12). I always recommend sizing up the heat mat to the size recommended for the 30-40 gallon tank when using the 20 LONG.

I am a visual person. Was thinking the heat mat was the small one as I visualized your hide placements above the UTH ;-).

Another idea: some people are recommending are wooden enclosures. I have some links at the end of my caresheet for those.

Yes, those temps are too cool for the warm end of the tank.

You may wish to go with Flexwatt Heat Tape for a larger enclosure. Then there are the Ultratherm Heatmats sold by the Beanfarm.com in many sizes. Check out their website.

 

[Teach Izzy]

Just an FYI Kim, You can get a 20 gal long at petsmart for $30. and the screen cover for $19. You may find it cheaper and more helpful to buy things individually since the kits often times contain things you don't need and then you have to supplement for the things they don't have. I initially bought a 10 gal kit and through this site ended up moving to a 20 gal less than a week later. Unfortunately I could not return my kit because my efficient husband took out the box and our trash as collected. But I found that it was better to purchase separately. And now I have a 10 gal cricket set up! If you can take your stuff back it may be better to do separate