New leo owner, need help on how to raise my baby right please! Handling, feeding, etc

[Teach Izzy]

I have been giving advice On This thread before you started giving advice on it. I am
Trying to make sure this one person sees that there are other views and perspectives. I do remember you jumping in on a thread of mine with the same condescending attitude. Which I did not appreciate. So I will continue to follow this thread an openly question you since no one else will.
You as well do not know who is behind this user name.

 

[Kagisnad Malchure]

Oy, oy, calm your pits gentlemen/ladies. No need to hiss and bite each other, please.

I believe I am following the caresheet, and whatever I do that is not within the caresheet isn't harmful, but merely alternative. I am aware that handling can cause stress, but I am also aware that only happens when it is excessive and when the gecko acts stressed when being handled, such as bolting and running, or biting.
As for the calcium as I said, I cannot find a more mainstream solution, yet. As for it being in his cage at all times, as I also said, there is only a very thin layer of calcium in, which I doubt could cause an overdose, especially at the frequency he eats it, which I believe to be moderate or lower.

I should also update that I no longer feed him in the morning, but rather leave the food in a bowl for him to hunt whenever, which so far he's done, eating 'round 5 mealworms a night, sometimes less sometimes more. Therefore I no longer handle him anywhere near his eating times. He also recently shed again, once again without problems, not even using the moist hide I made him. I handle him daily or every other day, it depends on my time and his disposition, sometimes he doesn't mind and I handle him as usual, sometimes he acts very skittish if I try to pick him up, so I leave him alone, and sometimes he just plain sleeps so I don't bother him.
I also believe I've already said the temperatures are within the ranges given, using a UTH and a lamp.

 

[VivaNFLD]

You know I think that your condescending. Thank you for stating I think. It makes all the difference. Reading text can be misleading.

You are the one who jumps in everyone's thread to ask me questions while I'm trying to provide advice. If it was your own thread, I would understand and respect your wishes.

And when you become a herpetologist or reptile specialist with some credentials then you can tell people things are too advanced for them to understand.


You have no idea who is behind the the usernames.

Your reply to me~ You as well do not know who is behind this user name.

You judged me, I did not judge you.

10-15 minutes of holding a gecko cannot possible kill them - Show me where I stated something against it?

You are quite a jerk with your high and mighty comments to people about buying air conditioners and chastising someone of they can't afford something right at the moment for their gecko

Proper temperatures are important for their well being. I'm sorry that you do not understand. If I can not afford to provide and house my reptiles properly, I would find them someone who will. From the beginning I made sure to save money on a separate account and have carecredit for emergencies. One should always be prepared ahead of time.

Please show respect to the OP and drop this conversation.

How is "beyond your comprehension" not condescending?

Or is that beyond your comprehension?

I'm sick and tired of your attitude to novice members who are looking for advice on caring for their pets. I have already reported it to a mod and I'm not sure anything will be done as I can't be the first GU member to notice and be bothered by your patronizing and opinion-laden "advice". Here's a suggestion though, I have read yours and another Senior Members reasoning for responding to people in this manner. It being "we get so many repetitive questions" well if the role you have taken on is grating, take a break. If being an authority on a subject is more important to you than passing on good helpful information, take a break.

Please don't respond with me not being able to read the tone in your responses, yadda yadda, projection yadda yadda. Take a break.

 

[Aimless]

folks, please come back on topic. we are all here for the geckos.

there are always different perspectives, and more than one way to keep your gecko.

please also stop with the personal attacks.

 

[Muffins94]

Oy, oy, calm your pits gentlemen/ladies. No need to hiss and bite each other, please.

I believe I am following the caresheet, and whatever I do that is not within the caresheet isn't harmful, but merely alternative. I am aware that handling can cause stress, but I am also aware that only happens when it is excessive and when the gecko acts stressed when being handled, such as bolting and running, or biting.
As for the calcium as I said, I cannot find a more mainstream solution, yet. As for it being in his cage at all times, as I also said, there is only a very thin layer of calcium in, which I doubt could cause an overdose, especially at the frequency he eats it, which I believe to be moderate or lower.

I should also update that I no longer feed him in the morning, but rather leave the food in a bowl for him to hunt whenever, which so far he's done, eating 'round 5 mealworms a night, sometimes less sometimes more. Therefore I no longer handle him anywhere near his eating times. He also recently shed again, once again without problems, not even using the moist hide I made him. I handle him daily or every other day, it depends on my time and his disposition, sometimes he doesn't mind and I handle him as usual, sometimes he acts very skittish if I try to pick him up, so I leave him alone, and sometimes he just plain sleeps so I don't bother him.
I also believe I've already said the temperatures are within the ranges given, using a UTH and a lamp.

Ignoring all other conversations that have subsided here... How is your gecko now? Any luck on finding any calcium or any updates for us? Are you being able to keep the temperatures correct?

 

[cricket4u]

How is "beyond your comprehension" not condescending?

Or is that beyond your comprehension?

I'm sick and tired of your attitude to novice members who are looking for advice on caring for their pets. I have already reported it to a mod and I'm not sure anything will be done as I can't be the first GU member to notice and be bothered by your patronizing and opinion-laden "advice". Here's a suggestion though, I have read yours and another Senior Members reasoning for responding to people in this manner. It being "we get so many repetitive questions" well if the role you have taken on is grating, take a break. If being an authority on a subject is more important to you than passing on good helpful information, take a break.

Please don't respond with me not being able to read the tone in your responses, yadda yadda, projection yadda yadda. Take a break.

The ability to comprehend expands with experience and eagerness to learn.

Some people may choose to live their life with minimal education and don't care to learn. These people will obviously not comprehend many aspects in life. If they're happy this way, who am I to judge.

5 year ago, I had a neighbor who worked in computers and I had a computer problem so I called him. He tried to explain the problem over the phone, however I could not grasp. He told me,

"It's beyond your comprehension. I have to come over and fix it myself."

Why would I become offended? He went to school for computers, I did not, therefore I can only comprehend a portion of it. I simply lack the experience and had not accessed the "tools" necessary. It was beyond my comprehension at the given time.

 

[Kagisnad Malchure]

"How is your gecko now? Any luck on finding any calcium or any updates for us? Are you being able to keep the temperatures correct?"

He's grown a lot! And put on some weight, however I fear he might take it off. I can take a picture of him if you want me to.
In the past few days, he hasn't been eating that well, but I don't think it's his fault, though I'll let you be the judge of that. I got about 300 or 400 mealworms, from the breeder I got my gecko from, in order to keep breeding them myself. However I ran into a problem, the worms keep turning into beetles too quick! If I drop 5 in his feeding bowl, the next day I'll find one or two eaten, one completely limp as if it were dead, and the rest in pupae stage already. They're also mostly limp anyway so they're obviously not interesting to him, thus he doesn't eat them as if they were dead.
I tried feeding him beetles this night but he doesn't show interest in them.
Tomorrow I plan to separate the beetles from the worms, and put the worms in the fridge, leaving the beetles where they were- at room temperature.
Should I do anything else?
As for calcium, I am sticking with the one I have, powdered lactic calcium tablets, as my breeder said it's okay. I keep only a thin layer in his cage, so he can't overdose. He takes in enough, too, he doesn't drag him body on the ground and can stand up pretty tall on his legs!
The temperatures are fine, too. Even though winter is coming, I don't think there will be any issues, I isolated the cold side of his cage with a thick blanket on the outside, so it doesn't get too cold, and the warm side is being managed fine by the lamp and UTH. I have a thermometer in that I've checked several times in both zones and it's okay. ^^
Oh! Regarding handling. In order to make sure he's not stressed, I've stopped handling him daily, instead I just reach my hand in his tank and sometimes pet him on the head [he doesn't mind this, thankfully! most times he just raises his head and lets me pet him]. I take him out only when my friend comes over [she loves handling him], and only for 10 minutes, or when I see him out of his hides and I have time.

Oh and for the love of geckos, please get over yourselves and stop arguing. Both sides are right and wrong. You're all winners. Now play nice please.

 

[Muffins94]

Glad to hear that things are doing well for you and your little friend.
As for breeding mealworms yes, you can put some in the fridge to delay them from turning into beetles. Have you tried crickets or any other feeders? He might be interested in something that moves more. I find the mealworms tend to be lifeless in the tank at times. Maybe taking them from the fridge will help. Everything seems to be on track and as long as your gecko is doing well you shouldn't have much to worry about. Were here if you need help!

 

[Kagisnad Malchure]

I'd try other feeders but there isn't any trustworthy source around, definitely not for crickets, but I'll keep looking!
As for limp mealworms, the limp ones were actually taken from room temperature.. soo I don't know.

 

[matt0101]

I just keep my mealworms in the fridge and take them out one or two full days per week to feed them bits of carrot. I haven't seen one turn into a beetle yet. As far as I know it's okay to feed them the pupae. My gecko will go to town on them lol.

 

[Kagisnad Malchure]

Ahh that's weird, I do the same.. yet they keep turning into beetles.
Also, how much should a juvenile/sub-adult [about 6-7 months?] eat, per day?
And another question, he's stopped hunting them from the feeding bowl, so I drop them in his terrarium, and I suppose he does hunt them as I don't find them the next day [most of them, anyway], however, some get lost in the substrate. I use paper towels. Is there any way to prevent them from hiding, so that the gecko can actually find and hunt them?

 

[Jstoker1238]

Ahh that's weird, I do the same.. yet they keep turning into beetles.
Also, how much should a juvenile/sub-adult [about 6-7 months?] eat, per day?
And another question, he's stopped hunting them from the feeding bowl, so I drop them in his terrarium, and I suppose he does hunt them as I don't find them the next day [most of them, anyway], however, some get lost in the substrate. I use paper towels. Is there any way to prevent them from hiding, so that the gecko can actually find and hunt them?

For mealworms. . other than keeping them in a dish, you can place them in the cage while they are still a little cold from the refrigerator so that they will be a little slower at first. They will eventually warm up and start moving though.

 

[Kagisnad Malchure]

That's exactly what I do. ^^
I removed the dish entirely, and I put about 4 in his cage every night before I go to bed. However sometimes I find some under the substrate in the morning. How many should he eat and how should I boost his appetite?

 

[Kagisnad Malchure]

He ate well for a few weeks, I even added back a different dish from which it seems he ate [the old one was probably too tall], for a few days.
Now he stopped eating again, and I'm thinking of taking several measures: I moved his tank into a place where I think the night temperature shouldn't drop as much, lately it's been colder here and it has dropped as low as 70F at night [in the air, the hides temperature was a tad higher due to the UTH], so that might be a reason. I can already see some improvement, in the past few days, at day the temp used to be ~80F, right now it's 90F.
Also I've considered replacing the mealworms daily, even if they stay alive in the dish. Also should I make sure there are no roaches running around the cage? He doesn't seem to be interested in those anyway.

He also stopped pooping since he stopped eating, this is merely due to him not eating, right? Cause I don't see any way he could've gotten impacted, substrate is paper towels, and there hasn't been anything foreign in his cage.

Oh! It may also be because he'll shed very soon [this night or the next one]? How many days do they not eat before shedding?

Update: I filled out the questionnaire:

Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? Yes, one on the warm end.
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): A regular thermometer. Nothing digital or fancy.
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 90F
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: Not sure. I suspect it's not different. I could hang the thermomether there if it's important to know the exact temperature.
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: ^
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): UTH, overhead regular incandescent bulb.
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): Sticky feet.
Are you using a thermostat(s)? No.
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Pencil case, dry warm hide.
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? Due to the recent move, the decrease will change. I'll check this night and update. Past nights I believe the drop was too much, as the house itself would drop to ~16C.

Humidity
Is the humidity measured? No.
Humidity range: -

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: Mealworms.
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms: Vegetable and fruit peels, usually potato.
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? Usually yes, although there are days I don't peel any vegetables so I don't feed them much. How often and how many peels should I place? See above.
How often do you feed your gecko? I leave several worms in his food dish.
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Powdered lactic calcium. Not sure of the brand, they come in little tablets that I powder down myself. There are no reptile stores in my city to buy reptile-made powdered calcium. I leave a very shallow strate in a small dish.
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? Without, I think?
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? ^
Multivitamins (include brand name)? None.
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: None.

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: None.
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? Normal.
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? Decreased. Might be due to the lower temperatures lately, which prompted me to move the cage.
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): No, although his tail hasn't thickened much, it's about as thick as his neck. I can't tell for sure but he might have lost a very low amonut of weight.
Discharge from the eyes or nose: None.
Increased breathing rate or effort: His breathing rate only increases when startled.
Change in the droppings: Yes, he hasn't been leaving feces since the fast few days when he also stopped eating.
Urates
---white or yellowish: White
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: Last time they were together, about 1/4 of the feces, I think?
Abnormal skin color or shedding: Shedding.
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: No.
Weakness: He's been walking closer to the ground in the past few days.

Previous problems and/or illnesses: None.

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household: A cat, who's never been in my room [where the gecko's cage is], and knows it's restricted territory, I keep my door closed at all times. I also wash my hands after handling the cat and going back in my room.
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: None.
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): The cat, an adopted stray.
Are any of your other pets ill? The cat was a bit sick when I first brought it in, but it's fine now. As I said, it doesn't come anywhere close to the gecko anyway.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thanks for completing GU's questionnaire. More replies later today (hopefully). Gotta get some sleep.

It is really vital that your leo gets vitamin D3 in addition to calcium. Vitamin D assists in the metabolism of the calcium. That could also be obtained by using UVB lighting. Thing is the cage needs to be of a certain size in order for the leo to have places to dodge the UVB rays at times.

Any chance you can order a calcium with D3 supplement online. I prefer Zoo Med's supplements.

What size is your enclosure? cms fine!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I believe my breeder has access to reptile calcium with vitamin D3, but it's a local shop in his city, which is about 150km away, it wouldn't be too easy to get to that shop myself. I'm not sure how does lactic calcium differ, my breeder said it's okay and I just wanted to double-check here. The lactic calcium is human-grade, meant for babies I believe, like the D3.
I'm afraid ordering them might pose shipping difficulties and ridiculous prices. I'm not in the best financial state at the moment, I can't afford expenses that can be avoided. [This is a temporary state due to unexpected events, no need to give me the "don't get a gecko if you can't afford to keep it" talk] However I might be moving to the breeder's city and have access to more stores in the following year, so this calcium is temporary anyway.
I don't know if I could get calcium WITH vitamin D3. I'll have to look around better.
Alright, I won't drip the D3 in his water bowl. Would it be okay to drip it on the powdered calcium or is that a no-no too?

For the sake of your leo, please follow the caresheet. Handling not only can cause stress, but cause digestion problems as well. It will be best to handle your leo as little as possible.

calcium lactate- 13% elemental calcium

calcium carbonate- 40% elemental calcium

I have noticed that you live in Romania. Way back in post #13 you mentioned your leo's breeder has access to calcium with D3. You mentioned that you might move to his city. Perhaps he would send you some? I don't know about dripping D3 onto the calcium powder.

Without a steady source of D3 either as a supplement or via UVB lighting, your leo is a risk for metabolic bone disease. Supplementing with D3 cannot be put off and needs to be given on a regular schedule. Symptoms like rubber jaw and rubberish limbs will begin to develop.

Please share a photo of your leo and of his enclosure. A video would also be helpful.

 

[Kagisnad Malchure]

Oh the questionnaire didn't copy completely, sorry. Here's the full one: Leoaprd Gecko questionnaire - Pastebin.com
"Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth): 43cm [16 inch] x 26cm [10 inch] x 33cm [12 inch], very approximative "

I will ask my breeder about D3 calcium then.

I don't have a quality camera on hand to take a picture of his enclosure, but this should be possible to make out: imgur: the simple image sharer You can see he's in the coconut, one leg out, haha.
Here's pictures of him from about a week ago: http://i.imgur.com/QYWAiax.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5VF3WXB.jpg

He started eating better again [about 3/night] and also leaving feces. Which I believe is good! I ought to refill his food dish and change his substrate.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Pasting your completed Health Questionnaire right on this thread for the convenience of all:


General Information
Species of lizard: Leopard Gecko
Gecko's name: Loki
Morph: Normal, I believe
Gender: Not sure yet, might be female?
Age: ~6 months
Weight: Not measured, what should I use? I've no scale in the house at all.
Total length: 14cm [5.5 inches], with tail
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: Not measured, although I suspect around 8-10cm.
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): Breeder
Captive bred or wild caught: Captive bred

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth): 43cm [16 inch] x 26cm [10 inch] x 33cm [12 inch], very approximative
Cage (type, size): Resun PT400 Terrarium, I think it may be meant for snakes? Sizes are above.
Substrate provided: Paper towels
Types of hiding places provided: A coconut in the cool side, a round fabric pencil case in the warm side [dry], and a cut upside-down flower pot in the warm side [moist, using squeezed out paper towels as extra substrate]
Is there a humidity hide? location? ^
Please describe any other furnishings: A rock next to the coconut, a calcium dish inbetween with a shallow strate of powdered calcium [little enough to not OD I believe], water dish in the opposite cool side corner, and food dish between that one and the pencil case.
List recent changes in the environment, if any: Moved the tank from above a wardrobe, inside it [it's a closed space, better heat isolation than the previous location, which was next to the window. It's still next to the window but lower and there's a wall between the two now.

I also use a folded piece of fabric [with a cute leopard print] to cover the cool end of the tank [the one facing the window], it reached up to the top of the tank, held in place by a stuffed dog toy.

What are the correct steps to sterlizing an item brought from outside? For the rock, I rubbed it well with water, soap and alcohol, then boiled it. I want to bring him some branches or other interesting things. I also found a calf pelvis in the woods, which I boiled, and washed thoroughly, that is clean enoguh to lick it, however I'm holding back on putting it in his cage because it has some rough edges and to be honest I'm still not sure if it's clean enough...

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s): Screw-in, wattage is 100W I believe. Could the bright light bother his eyes?
Fluorescent (tube bulbs): Nope.
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: Nope. Unless I place him on my bed, that's very hard to achieve.

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? Yes, one on the warm end.
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): A regular thermometer. Nothing digital or fancy.
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 90F
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: Not sure. I suspect it's not different. I could hang the thermomether there if it's important to know the exact temperature.
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: ^
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): UTH, overhead regular incandescent bulb.
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): Sticky feet.
Are you using a thermostat(s)? No.
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Pencil case, dry warm hide.
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? Due to the recent move, the decrease will change. I'll check this night and update. Past nights I believe the drop was too much, as the house itself would drop to ~16C.

Humidity
Is the humidity measured? No.
Humidity range: -

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: Mealworms.
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms: Vegetable and fruit peels, usually potato.
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? Usually yes, although there are days I don't peel any vegetables so I don't feed them much. How often and how many peels should I place? See above.
How often do you feed your gecko? I leave several worms in his food dish.
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Powdered lactic calcium. Not sure of the brand, they come in little tablets that I powder down myself. There are no reptile stores in my city to buy reptile-made powdered calcium. I leave a very shallow strate in a small dish.
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? Without, I think?
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? ^
Multivitamins (include brand name)? None.
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: None.

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: None.
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? Normal.
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? Decreased. Might be due to the lower temperatures lately, which prompted me to move the cage.
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): No, although his tail hasn't thickened much, it's about as thick as his neck. I can't tell for sure but he might have lost a very low amonut of weight.
Discharge from the eyes or nose: None.
Increased breathing rate or effort: His breathing rate only increases when startled.
Change in the droppings: Yes, he hasn't been leaving feces since the fast few days when he also stopped eating.
Urates
---white or yellowish: White
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: Last time they were together, about 1/4 of the feces, I think?
Abnormal skin color or shedding: Shedding.
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: No.
Weakness: He's been walking closer to the ground in the past few days.

Previous problems and/or illnesses: None.

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household: A cat, who's never been in my room [where the gecko's cage is], and knows it's restricted territory, I keep my door closed at all times. I also wash my hands after handling the cat and going back in my room.
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: None.
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): The cat, an adopted stray.
Are any of your other pets ill? The cat was a bit sick when I first brought it in, but it's fine now. As I said, it doesn't come anywhere close to the gecko anyway.

 

[Kagisnad Malchure]

How does his tail look? Is it too thin? Or is it okay?