Spyro hasn't made any progress?

MushuSpyro

New member
Hey so about a month or two ago, Spyro was treated for pinworms. She had 2 trips to the hospital where they medicated her through a tube.

The vet said it would take a little bit till Spyro is better.
The thing is, Spyro's lost more weight, refusing to eat anything, and is just generally not any better.

After Spyro finished her medication they did a fecal, and Spyro was clear..

so why is Spyro still sick?
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Hey so about a month or two ago, Spyro was treated for pinworms. She had 2 trips to the hospital where they medicated her through a tube.

The vet said it would take a little bit till Spyro is better.
The thing is, Spyro's lost more weight, refusing to eat anything, and is just generally not any better.

After Spyro finished her medication they did a fecal, and Spyro was clear..

so why is Spyro still sick?


If you have completed GU's Health Questionnaire very recently, kindly link it to this thread. If not, how about completing it now?

It is huge to have all the husbandry at hand when trying to troubleshoot health issues :).

Hands-on care rates the best always.
 
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MushuSpyro

New member
General Information
Species of lizard: Leopard Gecko
Gecko's name: Spyro
Morph: Super Hypo Tangerine baldy Enigma
Gender: Unsure, believed to be Female
Age: 1y 2 m
Weight: last known weight 30g
Total length: Need to measure
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: N/A
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): Pet store
Captive bred or wild caught: CB

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x heighth): 4ft long
Cage (type, size): wooden vivarium, glass doors at front
Substrate provided: newspaper or paper towels
Types of hiding places provided: all different sizes of hides
Is there a humidity hide? location? on hot side of viv
Please describe any other furnishings: a little bridge platform, not very high off the ground
List recent changes in the environment, if any: took out some decor, viv had a lot of stuff in it.

Lighting
Artificial lighting
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s): N/a
Fluorescent (tube bulbs): N/a
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: yes

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage? yes
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): Digital
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 33 c
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground:30 c
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground:24 c
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): UTH
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): ?
Are you using a thermostat(s)? Not at this moment, mine broke. waiting for new one
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? warm hide ( not the moist one )
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? No.

Humidity
Is the humidity measured? Not at this moment
Humidity range:

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: crickets, hoppers, mealworms, wax worms.
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms: gutload petsathome brand (chunx- water and food jelly stuff)
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? as stated above
How often do you feed your gecko? daily
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Calci Dust -3 times a week, D3 1 time a week, Multi vits 1 time a week
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both?Calci dust, one with an one without
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? without
Multivitamins (include brand name)? Exo terra Multivitamins (not kept in tank)
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: Just trying a variation between crixs, worms, dubias, to see if any interest in food.

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: No appetite, shed problems, anorexia, recieved treatment for pinworms, but not any better
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased? decreased
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased? decreased
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): loss
Discharge from the eyes or nose: no
Increased breathing rate or effort: no
Change in the droppings: yes
Urates
---white or yellowish: yellowish
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: slightly bigger
Abnormal skin color or shedding: stuck shed on stomach
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: no, clear
Weakness: slightly

Previous problems and/or illnesses: Pinworms, recieved treatment, given the all clear, seems worse off

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household: Birds, dog
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: None
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): no
Are any of your other pets ill? no
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Please share some current pictures of Spyro and the enclosure.

How often do you feed your gecko? daily
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Calci Dust -3 times a week, D3 1 time a week, Multi vits 1 time a week
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both?Calci dust, one with an one without
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? without
Multivitamins (include brand name)? Exo terra Multivitamins (not kept in tank)

1) Is your UTH inside the tank since you have a wooden enclosure?
2) Are you sure you have warm air temperatures as stated above without using any overhead heating in addition to your "UTH"? Temperatures drop off quickly the further you get from the UTH. Maybe with a wooden enclosure things are different?
3) Yellowish urates are not good. (Any history of D3 or multivitamin ingestion?)
4) How long has it been since the meds were finished?
5) Can you get some Oxbow's Carnivore Care or Fluker's Repti+Boost to assist feed?
6) Does your vet have any answers?
7) Ever exposed to crytosporidosis?

There is a post following the Leo Caresheet re Exo-Terra multivitamins. I suggest switching to Zoo Med's Reptivite without D3 for Spyro. Reptivite contains vitamin A in the form of A acetate.

Any reason why you dust with something every feeding? That could be too much supplementation :-/.
 
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Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
PS:

A picture of the stuck shed on Spryo's tummy will also be appreciated :).

What medication was administered for the pinworms?

Any chance of verifying the temperatures with a second thermometer...even one of those stainless steel fish tank thermometers with the red indicator?

Typically is it dry where you live in Essex?
 
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MushuSpyro

New member
1) Is your UTH inside the tank since you have a wooden enclosure? Yes, I tried it underneath, but there wasn't enough heat
2) Are you sure you have warm air temperatures as stated above without using any overhead heating in addition to your "UTH"? Temperatures drop off quickly the further you get from the UTH. Maybe with a wooden enclosure things are different? I don't use an over the head heating, it made the viv too hot.
3) Yellowish urates are not good. (Any history of D3 or multivitamin ingestion?) No, I don't leave any in the viv. The vet told me it was dehydration? part white, part yellow
4) How long has it been since the meds were finished? about a month
5) Can you get some Oxbow's Carnivore Care or Fluker's Repti+Boost to assist feed? I shall get some
6) Does your vet have any answers? I haven't spoken to my vet lately, She told me it would take a while for Spyro to appear better, so I haven't phoned up yet. Am going to book an appointment
7) Ever exposed to crytosporidosis? No.

And I'll have the pics up shortly
 

MushuSpyro

New member
She's coming into shed again. Sorry for not great quality of pictures.
Oh and also she does usually have newspaper as substrate, just today is cleaning day.

556.jpg558.jpg559.jpg560.jpg
 

MushuSpyro

New member
I'm not sure what the medication was, it was in my previous thread.
I can get another type of thermometer for that, atm I use the double probed digital one for monitoring
And Essex is usually raining, but has it's dry days.
 

MushuSpyro

New member
I've been bathing her 15 minutes a day to get the shed off...
She used to be really good with getting every bit off in one go..

Her skin is rather wrinkley too... But I've been trying to get her to drink
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
I've been bathing her 15 minutes a day to get the shed off...
She used to be really good with getting every bit off in one go..

Her skin is rather wrinkley too... But I've been trying to get her to drink

Does Spyro have a moist, humid hide 24/7? That will help with hydration AND shedding?

Concerned about the remaining shed. You could try the Humidity Chamber.

#4---Humidity Chamber Assists for Stuck Shed: Leopard Geckos & Crested Geckos
Be sure to monitor your gecko at all times during these procedures.

Place your gecko in a Humidity Chamber for an hour or so to loosen stuck shed on toes and/or body.

In case the eyes have retained shed, gently flush them with a saline solution. One method is to fill a small squeeze bottle with the saline and gently aim the flow towards the eyes. Alternatively, saturate a small sterile gauze pad and gently hold this against the stuck eye/eye area shed for several minutes. Use a normal saline eye wash solution recommended for contact lens insertion, NOT a contact lens CLEANER!!!

If these methods are ineffective or if there is any sign of infection, prompt vet attention is necessary!

METHOD #1:
Take a plastic container a little bigger than your gecko
Poke holes in the lid so your gecko can breathe
Place a dampened paper towel or washcloth on the bottom
Add a rough rock or piece of cork bark
Spray the insides of this container
Add the gecko
Snap on the lid
Place this container near a lamp using a low wattage bulb such as a 25 watt incandescent bulb to further increas humidity
Monitor your gecko at all times

After an hour or two remove the gecko and gently attempt to remove the stuck shed using a gentle rolling motion with a wet q-tip.

Some folks place this covered container containing the leopard gecko into shallow warm water to generate the desired humidity.

Depending upon the amount of retained shed, this procedure may need to be repeated on several successive days.

METHOD #2:
Fill a shallow basin or the bathroom sink with lukewarm water to your gecko's belly depth.

Let your gecko soak for about 20 minutes.

This should definitely loosen any shed remaining on the critter's toes.

Then take a wet q-tip, and with a gentle rolling motion, work on the toes. You can gently use a tweezers.
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
1) Is your UTH inside the tank since you have a wooden enclosure? Yes, I tried it underneath, but there wasn't enough heat Is the UTH sitting out in the open? I mean, could she just lay right on top of the UTH? It could be sandwiched between a couple tiles.

2) Are you sure you have warm air temperatures as stated above without using any overhead heating in addition to your "UTH"? Temperatures drop off quickly the further you get from the UTH. Maybe with a wooden enclosure things are different? I don't use an over the head heating, it made the viv too hot. I see.

3) Yellowish urates are not good. (Any history of D3 or multivitamin ingestion?) No, I don't leave any in the viv. The vet told me it was dehydration? part white, part yellow OK--very important to keep Spyro's warm moist hide moist 24/7. That helps with hydration as well as with shedding.

4) How long has it been since the meds were finished? about a month

5) Can you get some Oxbow's Carnivore Care or Fluker's Repti+Boost to assist feed? I shall get some Very important. Are you able to get some hornworms to try to see whether those spark an appetite?

6) Does your vet have any answers? I haven't spoken to my vet lately, She told me it would take a while for Spyro to appear better, so I haven't phoned up yet. Am going to book an appointment Keep us posted.

7) Ever exposed to crytosporidosis? No. That's good.

And I'll have the pics up shortly

There is a post following the Leo Caresheet re Exo-Terra multivitamins. I suggest switching to Zoo Med's Reptivite without D3 for Spyro. Reptivite contains vitamin A in the form of A acetate.

Any reason why you dust with something every feeding? That could be too much supplementation :-/.

Thanks for posting the pictures.

I would only use the Calci-Dust with D3 1x per week and Zoo Med's Reptivite without D3 as directed on the container---few insects per feeding instead of 1x per week.

This means NOT dusting with the plain Calci-Dust at all. The Exo Terra you've been using does contain calcium.
 
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MushuSpyro

New member
Thank you so much for the help!
She got the shed off last night :D
I'll still take her to the vets, as soon as I get paid.
 

XoVictoryXo

New member
I think I see a waxworm in the first photo. The problem with waxworms is they are like crack and geckos get addicted and will refuse everything else. been there done that so i dont even tempt them with it anymore, not even as a treat.
also, I dont trust the ink from the newspaper - it could end up on her feet because of humidity and she could lick it and ingest it- yuck. Try paper towels instead!
She does look dehydrated.
Are you able to get your hands on Oxbow or Reptaboost liquid nutrients? I feel like she could really benefit from extra hydration and nutrients
good luck with her, praying for her recovery!
 

MushuSpyro

New member
Hey guys, long time no speak.. I've tried everything to nurse Spyro back to health, but she's just got worse. she won't eat ANYTHING, she's lost so much weight that i can see her skull and shoulder bones... her tail is pencil thin. She's rather active still, and we've been back and forth from the vets and they're clueless as to why she's getting worse. they've tested for parasites, she's clear. I've been giving her slushy mix of insects etc, nothing. So today, she's going to stay with my cousin for a little bit. My cousin has 30+ years of experience with rehabilitating reptiles, so I thought it is best if Spyro stays with her for a while until she's better. I really have tried my best :( I have no idea what is wrong with Spyro, but something isn't right. So fingers crossed my cousin will be able to help her.. I feel so bad for the way Spyro is :( even know I've done everything...
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Hey guys, long time no speak.. I've tried everything to nurse Spyro back to health, but she's just got worse. she won't eat ANYTHING, she's lost so much weight that i can see her skull and shoulder bones... her tail is pencil thin. She's rather active still, and we've been back and forth from the vets and they're clueless as to why she's getting worse. they've tested for parasites, she's clear. I've been giving her "slushy mix of insects" etc, nothing. So today, she's going to stay with my cousin for a little bit. My cousin has 30+ years of experience with rehabilitating reptiles, so I thought it is best if Spyro stays with her for a while until she's better. I really have tried my best :( I have no idea what is wrong with Spyro, but something isn't right. So fingers crossed my cousin will be able to help her.. I feel so bad for the way Spyro is :( even know I've done everything...

Thing about a "slushy mix of insects" is that it may or may not be nutritionally balanced. Oxbow's Carnivore Care is a complete all-in-one assist feeding supplement. Has Spyro been keeping the slurry down...not regurgitating? Did not see where you indicate that. If so, then more frequent feeding might help her recouperate.

Have you tried the Oxbow's Carnivore Care or the Fluker's Repta+Boost? Both are readily available.
 
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MushuSpyro

New member
I've purchased Oxbow Carnivore care, but am unsure of how much to give to Spyro? and how often? She kept the insect slushy down, but refused to have any more of it. I'm waiting for the Carnivore Care to come through the post, should have it by Friday. Also, does Spyro need to be fully hydrated before taking the care formula? or does it provide hydrating contense? She's drinking water, but not as much as she needs. (once a week for 5 minutes). I have been bathing her everyday though.

Oh, also, Spyro is staying with me. My cousin thought it was best so that Spyro didn't get any more stressed out than she is.
 

XoVictoryXo

New member
Oxbow will come with specific instructions on measuring and administering instructions.
I used reptaboost so i am unsure of proper measurements
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
I've purchased Oxbow Carnivore care, but am unsure of how much to give to Spyro? and how often? She kept the insect slushy down, but refused to have any more of it. I'm waiting for the Carnivore Care to come through the post, should have it by Friday. Also, does Spyro need to be fully hydrated before taking the care formula? or does it provide hydrating contense? She's drinking water, but not as much as she needs. (once a week for 5 minutes). I have been bathing her everyday though.

Oh, also, Spyro is staying with me. My cousin thought it was best so that Spyro didn't get any more stressed out than she is.

Keep up the soaks; make sure Spryro's warm humid hide is constantly kept moist; fresh water 24/7.

The water you add to the Carnivore Care powder counts for hydration.

Keep the CC in the freezer in an airtight container in order to extend shelf life.
 
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