More paper towel issues!

[Tanglez]

So, my leopard gecko might be too clever (or not too bright) for her own good. I posted recently about my gecko liking to get under the paper towel and how she would go in and come out from under the paper towel freely whenever she felt froggy.

Well, I tried to weigh down the sides of the paper towel substrate so she would be deterred from going under. This worked surprisingly well for a few days and I thought she'd given up the idea. I used a long hide made from a paper towel roll on one side, put some big fancy rocks on the other side and sorta spread out her water/food bowls so it would hold more of it down. (Feels like I'm preventing a gust of wind from flipping a tent at this rate! Might as well buy some stakes and put em in the ground, or I would if the ground wasn't glass xD)

Well I was sitting at my desk and she's positioned behind me, across the room. Like I said, we're usually a quiet bunch so when I hear her scrambling around, I turn around and look. I heard it tonight and I turned but didn't see her anywhere in the cage. I turned back around and then heard a rather alarming sound and got up to investigate.

I find her under the long length hide with a wad of the paper towel substrate in her paw. She literally ripped the paper towel to MAKE a hole to get under the paper towels! There was no paper towel MISSING, so she didn't EAT IT, but in her little white paws was the ripped paper towel and part of it pulled back to expose the glass beneath.

I'm not sure whether to be exasperated or impressed, probably a mix of both.

So I guess, I'm also a bit sad because paper towels are ridiculously easy to clean, change, etc. And now I guess my only other option is slate? Is there any other home-grown stuff? I don't even feel like bothering with the carpet stuff because I'm sure she's just gonna go under there!

Her warm hide is 90.4 degrees. Has a wet hide next to that. Across the tank, (20 gallon long) there's the cool hide which is room temperature of 72-74 usually. In between them is the paper towel hide. So everything seems fine and she's pooping and eating and everything.

I guess there's just nothing left but to buy slate, I guess? Hubby gets paid this week so maybe it's off to Home Depot. ._.

Here's her cage:




This part is under the long blue hide-tube-thing, this is where she found the seam in the paper towels and ripped it!

This is her up to no good, making me play Where's Waldo?


I lifted the paper towel and I got that face in response lol.

So, any ideas of other homemade substrate? Is slate my only option? >_<

Thanks heaps in advance. <3

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Lovely leo! :cheer:

Think she is looking for a secure hide. ;-) There are too many windows in the hides shown.

Here's one I have for my leo and give a thumbs up rating.

Amazon.com: Exo Terra Reptile Cave, Medium: Pet Supplies

No need to keep any plain calcium in the tank! She will need something like Zoo Med's Reptivite with D3 and Zoo Med's Repti-Calcium with D3.

How about a much larger water dish too?

 

[Geckologist.tj]

I agree with Elizabeth. Not to say it will definetly keep her from going under the paper towel now that she knows she can, but that's probably what started it. Ideally, you want hides that have one entrance andno other holes. Also, the humid hide should not be transparent. Hope that works for you!

 

[Tanglez]

Okay thanks guys, Ill try that out and see if it helps!

 

[Tanglez]

Okay guess I shouldn't have been so eager to reply and wait til I tried to fix it xD Sorry, but okay, is this good?



I put her cool hide as her warm hide, took the transparent humid hide and tossed the lid, flipped it upside down and cut a hole in it. I got a bigger container lid for her water bowl and nixed the calcium bowl. I think I majorly misjudged her size while looking for a replacement humid hide. It's too small, isn't it? T^T

Lol, the whole time I'm rearranging, she's just like O_O WHAT'S HAPPENING- oh, oh this is nice! xD

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Okay guess I shouldn't have been so eager to reply and wait til I tried to fix it xD Sorry, but okay, is this good?

View attachment 26688

I put her cool hide as her warm hide, took the transparent humid hide and tossed the lid, flipped it upside down and cut a hole in it. I got a bigger container lid for her water bowl and nixed the calcium bowl. I think I majorly misjudged her size while looking for a replacement humid hide. It's too small, isn't it? T^T

Lol, the whole time I'm rearranging, she's just like O_O WHAT'S HAPPENING- oh, oh this is nice! xD

Good on the improvements. Now she needs some "cover". What you picture is scarce on the hiding places your leo needs in order to feel secure.

Very good thermal gradient in your 20 gallon LONG :banana:! Have you thought about overhead heat to warm the air now, but good year round too?

1) Best to keep the water dish on the cool end if you can

2) What about a thermostat to keep the enclosure temperatures stable and to lessen the chances of overheating? Check out the thermostat section in the Leo Caresheet linked in my signature. The Hydrofarm MTPRTC is very popular for the reasons given.

3) Slate tiles or textured ceramic tiles as the substrate are very inexpensive. They make good heat conductors for your under tank heat mat, are permanent, and look good. Two 12 x 12s plus two 6 x 6s will fit perfectly in a 30 x 12 x 12 inch enclosure.

4) I like to keep the lid as the base/floor of plastic humid hides. Especially as long as you use paper towels, the lid will help keep the moist hide humid longer.

 

[Tanglez]

Awesome! And yes, I talked to hubby about ordering the thermostat thing from Amazon, way better than me compulsively checking the temp every few hours. xD I think it was $30 or some such and he gets paid today! So hopefully we will have that shipped out soon!

I have not thought about overhead heat! I always read since they absorb heat from their bellies or something, that it just optional. What should I look for? Our bearded dragon uses an overhead thing but I think her's is like 150 watts or something? Would I put the heat over in the cool side? In the middle? @_@ On the hot side?

And okay so that's 2 12x12 and 2 6x6 tiles. Looks like a trip to Home Depot! I ended up having to tape the current paper towels down because she was still going under, lol. She has more persistence than I have determination so I guess we'll get her some pretty tiles!

Right now the only paper towels that are moveable is the 2x4 inch piece where she poos and the stuff in her wet hide and she actually went over to the poo paper towel and got under it, lmao.

And okay, so you mention cover... Should I just throw in extra hides or fake plants or... what, exactly? >_< I guess I'll go see what other people are putting in theirs and see if I got anything that can give her more cover. ^_^ Thanks so much, y'all been so helpful and I'm sure it's making Sadie happier. <3 Thanks again!

 

[Tanglez]

Oh, also - for now, I thought maybe I could add her old hides back in to give more cover? Like the blue one and the long tubey one with the holes. She does/did use them so maybe they're not completely awful, but just not a good idea to be used as main hides but more like off-hides to fit in around the cage? I don't know if that makes sense. It's 3AM and I think I'm babbling but hopefully you know what I mean. >_< <3

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Oh, also - for now, I thought maybe I could add her old hides back in to give more cover? Like the blue one and the long tubey one with the holes. She does/did use them so maybe they're not completely awful, but just not a good idea to be used as main hides but more like off-hides to fit in around the cage? I don't know if that makes sense. It's 3AM and I think I'm babbling but hopefully you know what I mean. >_< <3

Know what you mean about 3 AM! It's only 1 AM here, but I feel quite the same. ;-)

You could try them, just as long as she has 3 cave-like hides. Read on some thread that the person made a tunnel out of toilet paper tubes. You might also see how she like paper towel tubes. All increase enclosure interest.

 

[zak.payne]

Here's one I have for my leo and give a thumbs up rating.

Amazon.com: Exo Terra Reptile Cave, Medium: Pet Supplies

Would a full sized leo be able to use this hide? I only ask because I have one that I picked up from PetSmart when I first purchased my gecko and it just seems a bit too big. I can post a picture if needed.

 

[Geckologist.tj]

Here's one I have for my leo and give a thumbs up rating.

Amazon.com: Exo Terra Reptile Cave, Medium: Pet Supplies

Would a full sized leo be able to use this hide? I only ask because I have one that I picked up from PetSmart when I first purchased my gecko and it just seems a bit too big. I can post a picture if needed.

A lot of people use that hide with young and old leos alike. My geckos really like it. An adult leopard gecko can use the hide, but it might be too small for a larger than average adult. If your leo is 9 inches or less and under 80grams I wouldn't think it would be too big for the medium hide. If he's 11 inches and 120grams then he is definitely too big for the hide. If he is in between, I guess it's a judgement call. Just my thoughts.

 

[Tanglez]

Great, this is awesome. I woke up today and she was in one of the "off-hides" and then later she was wandering around, climbing on top of and then into the warm hide. ^_^ <3

We ordered the Hydrofarm MTPRTC Digital Thermostat and that hide Zak linked was the perfect addon item so yaaaay, more hides! Ahh, I'm so excited! Thanks guys. <3

Also, what about the over heat thing? Do I need one? What kind should I get? Does it need to run all year round or just during winter? Should I get a bulb or just a heat-emitter thing? Links? >_<

 

[Astral Wench]

I would say that she is probably looking for a nice place to hide like other people have suggested. I'm sure if you give her some better places to hang out away from watchful eyes she will be much happier. Her set-up is very open and blank.

I'm the kind of person who would even consider getting maybe a small potted plant or two from home depot that I would stick with something like a christmas cactus (zygocactus) or a succulent that will like the more arid conditions but does not have sharp spines that poke. Something to help break things up and add some color and life to her enclosure.

 

[Tanglez]

You can put real plants in w/ geckos? That's sooo cool! I thought she might try to eat it or something, I don't know! I will definitely look at the plant section this weekend, thanks!

Also, I put in the other hides so she has 5 total hides and she seems pretty content, she moves from one to the other and was delighted to hunt the dusted crickets!

I get the thermostat and the new hide delivered this Friday so this should all work out really well. I'll hafta get a picture of her new layout soon but my camera is charging so maybe later this evening.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

You can put real plants in w/ geckos? That's sooo cool! I thought she might try to eat it or something, I don't know! I will definitely look at the plant section this weekend, thanks!

Also, I put in the other hides so she has 5 total hides and she seems pretty content, she moves from one to the other and was delighted to hunt the dusted crickets!

I get the thermostat and the new hide delivered this Friday so this should all work out really well. I'll hafta get a picture of her new layout soon but my camera is charging so maybe later this evening.

Thanks everyone!

IF you decide on real plants, be sure to totally rinse/wash the leaves and replant in new soil on account of pesticide use and/or fertilizer.

There are many cage furnishings one can use with leos and not use real plants.

PS: Be certain that any plant you choose is NOT TOXIC if eaten! Can't always know what your leo has in mind. :razz:

 

[Geckologist.tj]

"You can put real plants in w/ geckos? That's sooo cool! I thought she might try to eat it or something, I don't know! I will definitely look at the plant section this weekend, thanks!"

Leopard geckos will not intentionally ingest plant matter, however, if for some reason the plant blows or shakes when somebody walks by, a leo might bite it. Some leos have a "if it moves, bite it and see if it tastes like food" mentality. I've seen them bite paper towel, fake plants, and me thinking that they might have some food. The moral of the story is plants are fine in the enclosure provided you know for certain they are not toxic.

 

[Tanglez]

Ohh okay. If I pick up a plant, I will definitely wash it off and replant. Although, I have plants already up on the window sill and I am not good at keeping plants in any other part of the house for some reason so maybe I will just stick to other decor. My last succulent died. =/

At the pet store here, the lizard/snake decor is really expensive and there isn't much selection. I was wondering if it would be okay to buy some of the cheaper decor that's in the fish aisle?

Like for example the fake plant that's set into a lump of plastic "rock?" Or the big plastic animal skulls that are in the aquarium section? What about the hamster department? They got some pretty fun looking stuff. As long as I didn't buy the "edible" hides, would stuff from there be okay?

Anyway, this is her hide for now, until we get the new hide to replace one of these on Friday.





^_^

 

[Saskia]

If I kept only one gecko I would probably keep it in a glass tank with tile as a substrate, since this is not the case I keep mine in paper towels, I have had some hatchlings go under the paper, and eventually stop doing it as they grow and feel more secure in their enclosures, may i ask, why does it bother you that she gets under the paper? why do you consider it to be a problem? Just out of curiosity, some of mine do when they are new and eventually chill and don´t do it again, I have never thought of it as a problem... ??

 

[Tanglez]

I was concerned because when I went searching the internet for similar issues, everyone vehemently protested against them doing this, saying they could burn themselves on the UTH. T^T I imagined the gecko would be smarter and just move but yeah. So I came here w/ my own situation to get personally detailed advice. >_< Although she seems happy and content now that she has ~5 hides to choose from, even if she does just sit in the one most of the time. Lol <3

I didn't think it was a big deal at first until that's where she started spending 80% of her time. Then I thought it probably isn't normal and I might be doing something wrong, which I was. >_< Not enough hides + not enough security.

So yah ^_^ <3

 

[Saskia]

Well, if the UTH is not on a thermosthat she could get burn even on top of the paper... one layer of paper towel would really not make such a big difference in temperature...