D3 or No D3 and Dusting feeders

[Andi]

I have 2 very young Leos. They get sunlight but never direct sunlight and I do NOT use a UVB bulb.

I dust with plain Calcium 4 times per week and dust with Calcium w/ D3 AND a Multivitamin 3 times per week (I didn't initially mix with the Multivitamin but I read right on the label that I should, so I did). All products are Rep Cal.

I do not leave anything in the tank 24/7.

What is everyone else doing?

 

[RBJersey]

I have 2 very young Leos. They get sunlight but never direct sunlight and I do NOT use a UVB bulb.

I dust with plain Calcium 4 times per week and dust with Calcium w/ D3 AND a Multivitamin 3 times per week (I didn't initially mix with the Multivitamin but I read right on the label that I should, so I did). All products are Rep Cal.

I do not leave anything in the tank 24/7.

What is everyone else doing?

There are so many different answers to this question and I have asked it as well as I am also new to the hobby. From ALL the different data/responses I have collected I have come to my own conclusion that you can in fact over-supplement so I think 3x per week is too much. I'm currently doing plain calcium with every feeding, calcium + D3 2x weekly, and calcium + multivitamin 1x per week for my juvenile. hopefully someone else will weigh in with their opinion

 

[acpart]

I'm dusting feeders most times (but not always) with Repashy Calcium plus. I've been doing this since 2009 and it's been fine.

Aliza

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Andi ~

To me what you have described represents oversupplementing. I dust crickets for hatchling geckos and juveniles at the same frequency as I do for adults. So far I have not had any problem doing so.

Moreover, Rep-Cal's calcium with D3 contains the highest level of any D3 calcium supplement I know. :-( Check out post #24 following my Leo Caresheet for comparisons of some major brands.

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On the 10 June 2013 I visited my exotics veterinarian with my leo and another gecko. The vet recommended Zoo Med's Reptivite with vitamin D3/A acetate multivitamin. He stated that only "a little tiny pinch of the multivitamin with D3" should be used 1x per week. He suggested formally gutloading the insects with T-Rex Calcium Plus Food for Crickets. He seemed satisfied that I feed Albers' All Purpose Poultry Feed to my crickets and to my dubia.

Continued advice is to feed the crickets a nutritious diet 24/7. Then 48 hours prior to feeding the crickets off to the geckos, feed the crickets only T-REX Calcium Plus Food for Crickets (the only proven gutload formulation as of the 18 July 2013). When using the T-REX Calcium Plus Food for Crickets only provide the crickets with water (damp paper towel), but no fruits or vegetables or they will consume those preferentially over the calcium-enriched diet.

Be sure to check the calcium-to-phosphorus ratio of any food feed to the crickets or worms. Carrots, for instance, are not good because carrots contain about a 1:2.3 ratio (???) of calcium to phosphorus depending upon the charts.

***Current directions (16 May 2013) on Zoo Med's Reptivite with/without D3/A acetate
"Directions for Insectivores: Place crickets in a plastic bag with a small amount of Reptivite w/d3 and shake to "dust" crickets with the powder. Feed approximately 12 dusted crickets per week for every 2.5 ounces (71 grams) of body weight."

So if your leo weighs 24 grams, the recommendation would be only 4 lightly dusted crickets per week with Reptivite with D3. Baby leopard geckos weigh much less, so be sure to adjust the dosage accordingly!

Do not exceed the recommended amount of Reptivite per body weight. One real problem in recommending exactly what to do is the size of the crickets fed.

Suggest using Zoo Med's supplements like this
1. Monday - Repti-Calcium with D3 on all crickets
2. Thursday - Repti-Calcium with D3 on all crickets
3. Reptivite with D3/A acetate adjusted for your leo's weight: Best to spread out the Reptivite with D3 dusted crickets over the course of a week.

Reptivite contains vitamin A acetate in contrast to the beta-carotene provided in Rep Cal's Herptivite. There has been research with chameleons which suggests they do not utilize vitamin A in the form of beta carotene.

Beyond the formal gutloading right prior to feeding off and dusting, feed your feeders a nutritious diet 24/7. Feeding off crickets whose entire body is healthy (and not only their guts) is very important!

 

[Andi]

Thanks for the responses.

Moving forward I'm going to stop with the plain calcium all together and only dust with Calcium with D3 twice a week.

I do actually have the Repti Cal with D3 but ordered the Rep Cal products because I thought they were better. Arg...

I'm a little annoyed at the fact that Rep Cal tells you to mix their Calcium with D3 with their Herptivite, yet it sounds like doing this will over supplement on multi vitamins. Even only dusting twice a week.

I'm going to look into ordering some Reptivite as well.

Aliza, does the Repashy Calcium plus have D3 in it as well?

 

[Andi]

I also gut load my crickets. I believe it's called Nature Zone Total Bites. It's small green chunks of something that kinda smells like pickles. As for my mealworms, I just have them in oatmeal and I've been throwing in a small chunk of apple for moisture and also another food source.

Just this weekend I went and got some carrots because I also thought they would be a good food source, but sure enough the Care Sheet mentions that I shouldn't use them.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thanks for the responses.

Moving forward I'm going to stop with the plain calcium all together and only dust with Calcium with D3 twice a week.

I do actually have the Repti Cal with D3 but ordered the Rep Cal products because I thought they were better. Arg...

I'm a little annoyed at the fact that Rep Cal tells you to mix their Calcium with D3 with their Herptivite, yet it sounds like doing this will over supplement on multi vitamins. Even only dusting twice a week.

I'm going to look into ordering some Reptivite as well.

Aliza, does the Repashy Calcium plus have D3 in it as well?

I'd use your Zoo Med's Repti-Calcium with D3 lightly dusted 2x per week. It contains far less D3 than the Rep-Cal calcium with D3. That is a very good thing.

***Alternating Zoo Med's Repti-Calcium with D3 with the Rep-Cal Calcium with D3 till you run out of the latter would still be "safe".

I also gut load my crickets. I believe it's called Nature Zone Total Bites. It's small green chunks of something that kinda smells like pickles. As for my mealworms, I just have them in oatmeal and I've been throwing in a small chunk of apple for moisture and also another food source.

Just this weekend I went and got some carrots because I also thought they would be a good food source, but sure enough the Care Sheet mentions that I shouldn't use them.

What we wish to achieve is a 1.5-2.0 ratio of calcium : phosphorus in the feeders we give our geckos. By lightly dusting we are able to tweak the balance of crickets, et cetera. That's why it's important to check the natural balance of the foods we feed our insects and worms (like oatmeal, carrots...). It's easy to balance the feeders disproportionately.

Just about any food can be checked out right here: Foods List

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-feeding-issues/68574-cricket-guidelines.html

 

[Andi]

thanks again. I'm done with the Rep Cal. Kinda disappointed in myself that I have been using these product the past week or two though. I wasted money and over supplemented my Leos.

But just so we're clear: Outside of the 2x per week with the Repti Cal w/ D3 and 1x per week with the Reptivite, you do not dust at all correct? Or do you also dust with Calcium w/out D3?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

thanks again. I'm done with the Rep Cal. Kinda disappointed in myself that I have been using these product the past week or two though. I wasted money and over supplemented my Leos.

But just so we're clear: Outside of the 2x per week with the Repti Cal w/ D3 and 1x per week with the Reptivite, you do not dust at all correct? Or do you also dust with Calcium w/out D3?

Did you check my latest edit posted after your Thanks? ;-) Rep-Cal products have been around much longer than the similar Zoo Med ones.

Moving forward, like you say......

I do not also dust with Calcium w/o D3.

Your Reptivite with D3 question requires additional details.

The more you gutload with genuine gutload products like T-Rex Calcium Plus Food for Crickets or Repashy's SuperLoad Insect Gutload, the less supplements you'll need overall. (I don't know whether SuperLoad has been independently tested to date.)

Some products "out there" advertised to significantly up the calcium content of the crickets we feed don't do diddly squat. For more info see post #45 following my Leo Caresheet.

It is a delicate balancing act.