Substrate question

[Scarygirl]

I really do appreciate everyone responding and helping me and I'm sorry for being so difficult. I'm new to reptiles and getting "The temperature should 92 F" and then "92 is too high for leopard geckos" is confusing me and stressing me out.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I have just read the whole thread, and I feel I must say this:
Scarygirl: By no means I am saying that you should listen to what people say on the internet over what a veterinarian says, but in this case, your vet is not right, your Leo needs higher temps than the ones you mention... all the people that have replied to this thread, including myself are experienced leo keepers and/or breeders, with several years of experience with many leos and other reptiles, and all the advice you have been given here is right, vets are not animal experts in general, they speciaize in ceirtain areas and ceirtain animals, it would be virtually impossible for them to know every husbandry detail about every species of pet animal, (for instance some vets are excellent dog surgeons, and know very little about birds... that doesn´t make them bad vets, it is just a whole different species!) , for what I have read, you have all the implements to provide top quality husbandry for your leo, you have the right tank, the right hides, the right heating devices, and heat control equipment, you just need to set up everything in the right way and I can tell you, you will have a happy happy leo!

I really do want Dany to happy and healthy. So much different information is being throw at me and its really confusing me. Also, either my UTH is malfunctioning or my thermostat and thermometer are, which is possible because they are both giving off different readings.

I really do appreciate everyone responding and helping me and I'm sorry for being so difficult. I'm new to reptiles and getting "The temperature should 92 F" and then "92 is too high for leopard geckos" is confusing me and stressing me out.

Thank you for sending me pdfs of both the Hydrofarm instructions and the care sheet you received from your vet. It is NOT unusual for your Hydrofarm and your digital to be a couple degrees different. What is bothering me is the difficulty setting your thermostat.

Sometimes fresh eyes can see things that we are missing. Is there a friend, neighbor, or teacher who might try to help setting your Hydrofarm? That is something that is difficult to do via email.

The Hydrofarm instructions you have look just like the instructions I have. Hydrofarm has a 2 year warranty, so I hope you saved your receipt. Think you have to set it once for the high (92*F) and repeat setting it for the low (88*F) with those little /\ and \/ arrows.

I hope that it is OK for me to quote from the care sheet you emailed me from your vet:
"The temperature directly under the heat source should be on a gradient from the
80's to room temperature. At night, the low 70's is adequate."

That info is quite sketchy. What the experienced GU leo breeders mention here is much better. They would not tell you erroneous stuff.

One never wants to use UVB with supplementing.

1. What calcium and vitamins are you using?
2. Brand of your UTH
3. Dimensions of your UTH
4. Brand of your digital thermometer

Except for replying now, I can't do any more online gecko stuff tonight.

 

[Scarygirl]

Thank you for sending me pdfs of both the Hydrofarm instructions and the care sheet you received from your vet. It is NOT unusual for your Hyrdrofarm and your digital to be a couple degrees different. What is bothering me is the difficulty setting your thermostat.

Sometimes fresh eyes can see things that we are missing. Is there a friend, neighbor, or teacher who might try to help setting your Hydrofarm? That is something that is difficult to do via email.

The Hydrofarm instructions you have look just like the instructions I have. Hydrofarm has a 2 year warranty, so I hope you saved your receipt.

I hope that it is OK for me to quote from the care sheet you emailed me from your vet:
"The temperature directly under the heat source should be on a gradient from the
80's to room temperature. At night, the low 70's is adequate."

That info is quite sketchy. What the experienced GU leo breeders mention here is much better. They would not tell you erroneous stuff.

One never wants to use UVB with supplementing.

1. What calcium and vitamins are you using?
2. Brand of your UTH
3. Dimensions of your UTH
4. Brand of your digital thermometer

Except for replying now, I can't do any more online gecko stuff tonight.

You're welcome. I can see if my neighbor can look at the instructions for me. The whole thermostat thing is frustrating me.

I don't use a UVB and never will. I've seen the outcome of using one with a leo and heard a story of one causing a house fire.

I use Zoo-Med's Calcium with D3. I dust four crickets once a week with it.

My UTH is from Exo-Terra and its medium.

My digital thermometer is the one you recommended to me.

That's fine. It's a possibility I may have class tomorrow (if it doesn't snow), so I'm getting off, too.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

You're welcome. I can see if my neighbor can look at the instructions for me. The whole thermostat thing is frustrating me.

I don't use a UVB and never will. I've seen the outcome of using one with a leo and heard a story of one causing a house fire.

I use Zoo-Med's Calcium with D3. I dust four crickets once a week with it.

My UTH is from Exo-Terra and its medium.

My digital thermometer is the one you recommended to me.

That's fine. It's a possibility I may have class tomorrow (if it doesn't snow), so I'm getting off, too.

[UVB lighting also comes in strip fluorescents like Reptisun tubes that don't produce heat. Let's not go there.]

1. For Zoo Med's Repti-Calcium with D3 I would lightly dust ALL crickets per feeding 2x per week. No dusting with calcium with D3 at the other feedings.

2. However, Zoo Med's Reptivite (multivitamin) with D3/A acetate should ALSO be used quite sparingly.

3. This heat mat: http://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Hea...1391407803&sr=8-2&keywords=exo+terra+heat+mat 10 x 11 inches?

4. I'm sorry for repeat questions. Too many back and forths here. I'm tired. Which digital thermometer did you buy?

 

[cricket4u]

Think you have to set it once for the high (92*F) and repeat setting it for the low (88*F) with those little /\ and \/ arrows.

You can only set it to one temperature. Hold the set button for 3 seconds and set it to the desired temp by pressing the up or down arrow until it reaches 90f(example temp), then hit set again.

 

[Scarygirl]

[UVB lighting also comes in strip fluorescents like Reptisun tubes that don't produce heat. Let's not go there.]

1. For Zoo Med's Repti-Calcium with D3 I would lightly dust ALL crickets per feeding 2x per week. No dusting with calcium with D3 at the other feedings.

2. However, Zoo Med's Reptivite (multivitamin) with D3/A acetate should ALSO be used quite sparingly.

3. This heat mat: Amazon.com: Exo Terra Heatwave Rainforest, 8-Watt/110-Volt, 10 by 11-Inch: Pet Supplies 10 x 11 inches?

4. I'm sorry for repeat questions. Too many back and forths here. I'm tired. Which digital thermometer did you buy?

1. Okay. I was doing once a week since she was getting too much calcium before.

2. Should I use that one instead?

3. No, this one: Amazon.com: Exo Terra Heatwave Desert, 8-Watt/110-Volt: Pet Supplies

4. It's no problem. It's the one you recommended to me, from The Bean Farm. The brand is Cooper.

 

[Scarygirl]

What I've been noticing with the UTH and thermostat is that the max temp that it goes up to is slowly increasing. It used to only go up to 76-77. Now it goes up past 83. I'm probably wrong, but I think if I leave it, it'll eventually reach 92. What are your thoughts?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

What I've been noticing with the UTH and thermostat is that the max temp that it goes up to is slowly increasing. It used to only go up to 76-77. Now it goes up past 83. I'm probably wrong, (but I think if I leave it, it'll eventually reach 92. What are your thoughts?

1. Amazon.com: Exo Terra Heatwave Desert, 8-Watt/110-Volt: Pet Supplies

That heat mat you currently have measures only 8 x 8 inches. TOO SMALL for your 30 inch long tank. You'll not get the heat from it your leo needs. Recommend getting the 16 watt 11 x 10.5 Exo Terra Desert heat mat or the Bean Farm's 11 x 11 Ultratherm mat.

Amazon.com: Exo Terra Heatwave Desert, 16-Watt/110-Volt: Pet Supplies

That 8 x 8 size does not spread the heat out to a large enough area.

2. Don't leave the Hydrofarm settings alone.

I am going to quote from the Hydrofarm directions. There is a temperature selection mode. That is what you need to set the high and the low. First you set say the high, then you repeat to set the low.

Programming the Controller
1. To adjust the temperature setting
a. Press & hold "SET" button for 3 seconds to enter the temperature selection mode
b. Press the /\ or \/ button to adjust the temperature
c. Press "SET" button again to select the displayed temperature as the target

2. Press "SET" button to display the preset temperature
Current measured temperature will be shown when no button is activated.

[3. Repeat above directions for setting the low (or high)===>this part was not a quote]



If what you tell me is OK for your leo, I would not be trying to help. :-( :-(

Will reply to your other post later. Just be assured that the Bean Farm sells reliable products like the Cooper thermo/hydro. What humidity readings are you getting?

 

[Scarygirl]

1. Amazon.com: Exo Terra Heatwave Desert, 8-Watt/110-Volt: Pet Supplies

That heat mat you currently have measures only 8 x 8 inches. TOO SMALL for your 30 inch long tank. You'll not get the heat from it your leo needs. Recommend getting the 16 watt 11 x 10.5 Exo Terra Desert heat mat or the Bean Farm's 11 x 11 Ultratherm mat.

Amazon.com: Exo Terra Heatwave Desert, 16-Watt/110-Volt: Pet Supplies

That 8 x 8 size does not spread the heat out to a large enough area.

2. Don't leave the Hydrofarm settings alone.

I am going to quote from the Hydrofarm directions. There is a temperature selection mode. That is what you need to set the high and the low. First you set say the high, then you repeat to set the low.

Programming the Controller
1. To adjust the temperature setting
a. Press & hold "SET" button for 3 seconds to enter the temperature selection mode
b. Press the /\ or \/ button to adjust the temperature
c. Press "SET" button again to select the displayed temperature as the target

2. Press "SET" button to display the preset
Current measured temperature will be shown when no button is activated.

[3. Repeat above directions for setting the low (or high)===>this part was not a quote]

I think you need to repeat the above procedure once for setting the HIGH and again for setting the LOW. (2 temperature selection modes.)

If what you tell me is OK for your leo, I would not be trying to help. :-(

Will reply to your other post later. Just be assured that the Bean Farm sells reliable products like the Cooper thermo/hydro. What humidity readings are you getting?

Trust me, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. We're going to work on the thermostat. What was confusing me was that when I would try setting the low, I would end up changing the high.

The humidity is currently 27%.

 

[cricket4u]

Here is the manual. When you hit the set button the 3rd time it just verifies the temperature you have already set it to.

http://botanical.com/hydro/propagation/18069_MTPRTC_instr09.pdf

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Trust me, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. We're going to work on the thermostat. What was confusing me was that when I would try setting the low, I would end up changing the high.

The humidity is currently 27%.

Thanks, Scarygirl.

Go through the above set steps in #1 once to set the low. Then do the exact same thing to set the high.

In the warm DRY hide the humidity will be low. After we get your hydrofarm settings squared away, let's move the probe temporarily to check out the humidity outside of any hide like in the middle of the tank.

 

[Scarygirl]

Here is the manual. When you hit the set button the 3rd time it just verifies the temperature you have already set it to.

http://botanical.com/hydro/propagation/18069_MTPRTC_instr09.pdf

I have and read the manual. What I can't find is where is tells me how to set two temperatures.

 

[Scarygirl]

Thanks, Scarygirl.

Go through the above set steps in #1 once to set the low. Then do the exact same thing to set the high.

In the warm DRY hide the humidity will be low. After we get your hydrofarm settings squared away, let's move the probe temporarily to check out the humidity outside of any hide like in the middle of the tank.

And thank you

Now, the problem I'm having right now is that when I do that, it just changes the temp back and forth. I'm following your instructions, but its doing that. Am I doing something wrong? Does yours let you know you have two temps set?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

And thank you

Now, the problem I'm having right now is that when I do that, it just changes the temp back and forth. I'm following your instructions, but its doing that. Am I doing something wrong? Does yours let you know you have two temps set?

I don't know. :-(

Can't try right this minute. Later today I'll try resetting mine and see what happens.

 

[Scarygirl]

I don't know. :-(

Can't try right this minute. Later today I'll try resetting mine and see what happens.

Okay I had my dad help me and right now we're testing the thermostat. When I get the chance, I'm going to get the bigger UTH.

 

[Scarygirl]

Okay! So, dad set the max temp to 78 F. The current temp was 79.1 so the thermostat shut off. The temp then began to decrease by .2 degrees until it turned back on at 75.9. The thermostat comes back on once the temp drops 2 degrees below the set temp. I've also noticed that the temp goes up when I increase the set temp (example: I set it to 88 and it would only go up to 79, but when I set it to 92, it went up to 83). Dad set the temp to 95 to see if it'll increase anymore. I'll post the results.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

1. Okay. I was doing once a week since she was getting too much calcium before.

2. Should I use that one instead?

3. No, this one: Amazon.com: Exo Terra Heatwave Desert, 8-Watt/110-Volt: Pet Supplies

4. It's no problem. It's the one you recommended to me, from The Bean Farm. The brand is Cooper.

That $35 Cooper hygrometer/thermometer which takes readings at the probe is no doubt pretty reliable. The Bean Farm sells good stuff.

Suggest using Zoo Med's supplements like this:
1. Monday - Repti-Calcium with D3 on all crickets
2. Thursday - Repti-Calcium with D3 on all crickets
3. Reptivite with D3/A acetate adjusted for your leo's weight: Spread out the lightly dusted Reptivite with D3 crickets over the course of a week. Use the Reptivite (multivitamin) very sparingly.

Current directions (16 May 2013) on Zoo Med's Reptivite with/without D3/A acetate
"Directions for Insectivores: Place crickets in a tall plastic container with a small amount of Reptivite w/D3 and swirl to lightly "dust" crickets with the powder. Feed approximately 12 dusted crickets per week for every 2.5 ounces (71 grams) of body weight."

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Okay! So, dad set the max temp to 78 F. The current temp was 79.1 so the thermostat shut off. The temp then began to decrease by .2 degrees until it turned back on at 75.9. The thermostat comes back on once the temp drops 2 degrees below the set temp. I've also noticed that the temp goes up when I increase the set temp (example: I set it to 88 and it would only go up to 79, but when I set it to 92, it went up to 83). Dad set the temp to 95 to see if it'll increase anymore. I'll post the results.

1. Do the temps recorded by the Cooper thermometer's probe come close to matching those on the Hydrofarm thermostat's probe?

2. According to specs I've heard on thermostats like these, there should be no more than - 3 degree F variability before the thermostat turns on after having shut off. When you set the Hydrofarm for 91 F, the temps where the probes are in the warm DRY hide right above the heat mat should drop no further than 88 F before the Hydrofarm turns on again. That should even happen with your current heat mat.

3. How about exchanging the Hydrofarm?

4. Consider getting an 11 x 11 Ultratherm heat mat from the Bean Farm or the 16 watt Exo Terra 11 x 10.5 inch. Best (really) to do that now to provide more warmth for your leo. The Ultratherm heat mats can be repositioned/reused.


Thanks! Sorry for any confusing replies.

 

[Scarygirl]

That $35 Cooper hygrometer/thermometer which takes readings at the probe is no doubt pretty reliable. The Bean Farm sells good stuff.

Suggest using Zoo Med's supplements like this:
1. Monday - Repti-Calcium with D3 on all crickets
2. Thursday - Repti-Calcium with D3 on all crickets
3. Reptivite with D3/A acetate adjusted for your leo's weight: Spread out the lightly dusted Reptivite with D3 crickets over the course of a week. Use the Reptivite (multivitamin) very sparingly.

Current directions (16 May 2013) on Zoo Med's Reptivite with/without D3/A acetate
"Directions for Insectivores: Place crickets in a tall plastic container with a small amount of Reptivite w/D3 and swirl to lightly "dust" crickets with the powder. Feed approximately 12 dusted crickets per week for every 2.5 ounces (71 grams) of body weight."

1. Do the temps recorded by the Cooper thermometer's probe come close to matching those on the Hydrofarm thermostat's probe?

2. According to specs I've heard on thermostats like these, there should be no more than - 3 degree F variability before the thermostat turns on after having shut off. When you set the Hydrofarm for 91 F, the temps where the probes are in the warm DRY hide right above the heat mat should drop no further than 88 F before the Hydrofarm turns on again. That should even happen with your current heat mat.

3. How about exchanging the Hydrofarm?

4. Consider getting an 11 x 11 Ultratherm heat mat from the Bean Farm or the 16 watt Exo Terra 11 x 10.5 inch. Best (really) to do that now to provide more warmth for your leo. The Ultratherm heat mats can be repositioned/reused.


Thanks! Sorry for any confusing replies.

It's no problem at all. The sooner I can figure this out, the better.

Okay, I'll give it a try.

1. Yeah, it's pretty close. Right now the thermostat reads 89.2 F and the thermometer reads 80.2 F.

2. Huh, it only dropped 2 F before turning back on :/

3. I'll see if I can find the receipt

4. I'll look into it when I have the money. I'm a little short right now since I haven't been working.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

It's no problem at all. The sooner I can figure this out, the better.

Okay, I'll give it a try.

1. Yeah, it's pretty close. Right now the thermostat reads 89.2 F and the thermometer reads 80.2 F.

2. Huh, it only dropped 2 F before turning back on :/

3. I'll see if I can find the receipt

4. I'll look into it when I have the money. I'm a little short right now since I haven't been working.

1. 89.2 and 80.2 are NOT close at all. Say the digital readout on the thermostat is 90.0. Then the reading on the digital probe should be NO greater than 3 degrees less (87.0) to be acceptable.

2. If the thermostat drops ONLY 2 degrees before turning back on, that is good. However, is that still with your dad's setting the thermostat at 95 F?

3. If you paid Amazon for the thermostat, they might be able to send a duplicate receipt???