Strange poo/vomit

majahawt

New member
I'm really worried about Eclair, I thought she'd been hiding for the last few days because she was still settling in but today she did a very strange poo/vomit (not sure what it is). I don't know if it makes much of a difference, but she's been drinking a lot of water since she arrived. Filled out form and photo attached

General Information
Species of lizard: Leopard gecko
Gecko's name: Eclair
Morph: Blizzard
Gender: Female
Age: 4 months
Weight: Don’t have a scale ;n;
Total length: About 12 cm
Length of your reptile when you first acquired it: Same
Source (pet store, breeder, previous owner): Breeder
Captive bred or wild caught: CB

Vivarium
Enclosure dimensions (length x width x height): 47 x 32 x 32
Cage (type, size): Half of an old aquarium, about 30 gallon in total, divider in the middle
Substrate provided: Reptile carpet
Types of hiding places provided: Warm humid hide, cold dry hide, had to take her warm dry hide away for a few days because of climbing
Is there a humidity hide? location?: Yes, on warm hide
Please describe any other furnishings: Food dish, water dish, calcium dish, a couple of plastic plants
List recent changes in the environment, if any: She moved in last week

Lighting
Artificial lighting: Yes
Incandescent (“screw-in” bulbs): wattage(s): Daytime heat bulb 40 watts, infrared night bulb 40 watts
Fluorescent (tube bulbs): None
Access to ambient daylight from a distant window: Not much

Heating
Do you have a thermometer(s) in the cage?: Yes
What type and brand of thermometer (digital with probe, temperature gun, LCD strip, analog (circle), combo digital thermometer/hygrometer, stainless steel aquarim type, other): Not sure of brand, digital with probe
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 28 C
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 26 C
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: 23, 5 C
What device(s) are used to maintain the temperature (Under Tank Heater, heat light, ceramic heat emitter, Flexwatt heat tape, hot rock, other): UTH + lights
Ventilation space for your UTH by elevating the tank above the shelf (some UTHs come with sticky feet for the tank corners): Some room under aquarium, not stuck to the underside
Are you using a thermostat(s)? Yes
Which hide does she/he spend most of her time? Moist warm hide
Is the temperature decreased at night? by how much? 1-2 C

Humidity
Is the humidity measured? No
Humidity range:

Diet
Insects and worms, list type: Mealworms and calciworms, was going to introduce small locusts today
Regular diet fed to the insects and worms: Bug grub and fresh vegetables
Are the insects and worms formally “gutloaded” 1-2 days prior to feeding off to your gecko? If so with? Same as regular diet
How often do you feed your gecko? I put food in every day
Please list any supplements (with brand names) used. How are they given and how often? Just calcium
What calcium brand are you using? with D3, without or both? Nutrobal Calcium with D3
Is the calcium in the tank with D3 or without? With D3 (I know, I’m taking it out when we move tanks)
Multivitamins (include brand name)? None
Please list any recent additions/changes in the diet: None

General Health
If your gecko is sick, please describe the signs and how long your gecko has been showing these signs: She’s been hiding away for about two days, won’t eat and there was something in the tank that I’m not sure if is a poo or throw up (see photo)
Is your gecko’s general activity level normal, decreased, or increased?: Decreased, she was very active the first few days
Is your gecko’s appetite normal, decreased, or increased?: Decreased, since she arrived on wednesday she’s only had two mealworms and a calciworm
Have you noticed any of the following?
Weight (loss or gain): Don’t know :/
Discharge from the eyes or nose: No
Increased breathing rate or effort: No
Change in the droppings: Something that I don’t know if is a poo or vomit but I think it is a poo, see photo. Urates left in another corner of the tank, wet spot around it
Urates
---white or yellowish: Very yellow
---size of urates as compared to size of feces: About 10% urate to 90% poo/vomit
Abnormal skin color or shedding: No
Parasites on the skin or in the feces: Not that I know of
Weakness: I noticed her legs seemed a little shaky when walking, but I thought maybe it was because of the stress from shipping

Previous problems and/or illnesses: None that I know of

Other Critters in Same Cage or in Household: A cat and a leopard gecko
List other animals that are kept in the same cage: Another leopard gecko in the same tank, on the other side of the divider
Recent acquisitions (new pets within the past 6 months): Her, she arrived last wednesday
Are any of your other pets ill? No

Photo of poo/vomit photo.JPG
 
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majahawt

New member
Update: she had two tiny locusts, I'm wondering if perhaps the poo was an undigested mealworm? Perhaps she's the opposite of Donut and is better with hoppers than worms?
 
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Tokaybyt

New member
That appears to be a normal fecal for the most part. I'd sway away from the mealworms as at least a staple, they are high in fat and have a poor calcium to phosphorus ratio. Phosphorus is higher, making it harder to get to a preferred 2:1 Calcium:phosphorus ratio, which can make it harder for the gecko to absorb proper amounts of calcium. Additionally, their bodies are rather smooth, making it difficult to get calcium powder to readily stick to the body of the worm, or at least enough to get good calcium levels ingested.

As for her legs look skinny, she looks very normal for her size both in body and legs. Leopard geckos don't have very robust, stout legs.
 

majahawt

New member
Thank you!

I think we mostly freaked out a little because the poo was laying in front of her hide, it appeared as if she'd had a bit problem getting it out and had dragged a little around while she was pooping. We're definitely going to get more locusts! I would use crickets but honestly I just think they're too gross lol
 

majahawt

New member
She's done a poo now that looks completely normal so yeah I just think we overreacted a little. Our boy has gotten so big in two months that I think we just forgot what it's like to have a much younger baby, not to mention a lady :3
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
majahawt said:
What is the ground temperature right on the substrate under the warm dry hide: 28 C
What is the air temperature on the warm end about 4 inches up from the ground: 26 C
What is the air temperature on the cool end about 4 inches up from the ground: 23, 5 C

Do you mean 28 C under the warm dry hide?


About Eclair:

majahawt said:
Urates
---white or yellowish: Very yellow

"Very yellow" urates consistently? That is NOT good.

Is this leo pooping regularly?

Generally urates are very white. A vet friend who keeps leopard geckos has recently told me that dark yellow urates imply something serious is going on.

Maybe the reason Eclair's urates are/have been very yellow is because she has had free access to the calcium with D3 that you've been keeping in the enclosure? Hope that it's been removed and that Eclair's urates return to normal.
 
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majahawt

New member
She's pooping regularly, it was just that one poop that I think perhaps my boyfriend wasn't too good at looking at, it's actually not yellow at all. All her poops since then have been normal and she's been active and eating.

Also I'm changing tanks rn but we didn't check the temps very thoroughly. It's been difficult keeping the temps consistent with such an open top but I expect it'll be easier from now on
 

majahawt

New member
Yeah, it's just that one that was lighter. I smushed it around a little and it looks like it was just an undigested mealworms. No more of those for her!
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Yeah, it's just that one that was lighter. I smushed it around a little and it looks like it was just an undigested mealworms. No more of those for her!

If the warm end is too cool...less than 88-93*F (31-34*C), leopard geckos will be unable to digest their prey.

The urates are separate from the feces.
 

majahawt

New member
Yeah I know, in this case she had sort of left the urates in a corner and dragged her poo along a little bit. After that, all her poos have been completely normal.

Her temperatures are fine, I think she just might be a little too young to eat anything with a hard shell yet. Locusts have gone through her without any problems and after moving to the new tank, she's doing all her regular roaming and climbing again :3
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Yeah I know, in this case she had sort of left the urates in a corner and dragged her poo along a little bit. After that, all her poos have been completely normal.

Her temperatures are fine, I think she just might be a little too young to eat anything with a hard shell yet. Locusts have gone through her without any problems and after moving to the new tank, she's doing all her regular roaming and climbing again :3

Great to hear that Eclair has settled in well. :yahoo:
 
My leo had a little incident about a year ago, and suffered internal injuries. (little guy is fine now) I had to hand feed baby food with mixed in vitamin powder for a while. When introducing my leo back to meal worms, he threw up one or two, but was totally fine.
 

majahawt

New member
She's not interested in eating again, she'll walk straight by or ON TOP of food but so far I'm chalking it up to her being moved into a new tank again, since she started eating just before we moved her. She probably just needs some time to adjust
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
She's not interested in eating again, she'll walk straight by or ON TOP of food but so far I'm chalking it up to her being moved into a new tank again, since she started eating just before we moved her. She probably just needs some time to adjust

Remember that calcium needs to be taken with food for proper absorption. ;-) That's why I do not recommend keeping calcium in the enclosure.

Here's a check list in case we've forgotten something.

#66---Leo Not Eating? Troubleshoot these causes......cricket4u (July & Nov 2013)
"Leos are very greedy and normally eat right away if everything is set up properly. However, I know there are exceptions. Try switching the hides. (The Exo-Terra hide is more secure and may be the reason. If he's not utilizing the heat, chances are he may not eat.) If that does not work, lower the temp as Elizabeth suggested. You may want to cover the sides of the glass so that he will feel more secure."

"Improper temps---air temps too hot or too cold
Improper humidity---too dry is most common
Stress---too much handling---lack of hides or not enough---cagemate bullying, cage too small, et cetera......
Repetitious Diet---variety is important
Spoiled food---upset stomach or simply a bad experience (common with superworms)
Food offered at the wrong time of day---lights on
Wrong size prey---too big or too small
Improper photoperiod
Prey not recognized---leo needs moving prey to elicit feeding response
Malfunctioning heating equipment---goes unnoticed---should be checked daily
UTH is too warm---unregulated---gecko avoids the warm spot, therefore will not eat (need thermostat)
Most common of all CHEAP thermometers => false temp readings
Too much calcium causing constipation and/or loss of appetite

Parasites
Infection
Metabolic---calcium or vitamin deficiency
Impaction
Dehydration
Pain from an injury or otherwise"
 
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majahawt

New member
A little update on Eclair

She's still skittish but once she comes out of the tank, she sits in my hand or crawls from hand to hand. Both her and Donut are a little upset about the new tanks, and I think it might be a little because they're white so they reflect a lot of light and they look "odd" to them. Backgrounds and more decorations are on their way in the mail so hopefully that'll calm them down a little. I've covered the glass of her tank with paper to give her time to settle on her own.

As far as I know, she still hasn't eaten a lot but she doesn't appear to be losing weight or anything. Donut is eating less as well so it could be just because of autumn (or the tank-change). She's been pooping normally and regularly but today she pooped something that looked like, after looking at images, shed or sand.

I'm really upset about this if it's sand! Tomorrow is cleaning-day so I'm going to look closer at it then (just wanna leave her alone for now) and if it is sand, I'm definitely going to call out the breeder because she hasn't been near any kind of sand since she got here.
 

majahawt

New member
This is a photo I found of something similar, where the issue was sand http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b271/cornflakep3/Chameleon Pics/IMG_6776RS.jpg

I'm definitely dissecting it tomorrow, it's like a little cocoon. She has a lot of head room, too much even. No slanted glass. Could probably keep a juvenile bearded dragons in these tanks. We've got D3-calcium, non-D3 calcium and a multivitamin which we'll start with next week. Unfortunately I didn't see that it was with D3 until after purchase so I guess I'll have to cut down on calcium D3 if I wanna use the multivitamin too :/
 

majahawt

New member
Once we get the background in and she gets left alone for a week or so I'm hoping she'll have settled down enough to eat. I also realised that the cat watching was probably freaking her out so I moved the cat tree
 
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