2nd Leo, 1st time raising baby

[NeoLeo87]

What are you feeding your crickets and any worms?

Currently, I am feeding my leo's crickets. This is the primary feeder my adult has eaten for nearly 10 years (again, I know, bad husbandry on my part for not supplying more variety. I'm making effort to better that).

The crickets are being fed potatoes and apples, and are gut-loaded on Fluker's high-calcium cricket diet (a dry food), Fluker's "orange cube" cricket diet (which offers hydration and orange3), and Fluker's calcium-fortified cricket quencher. I'm guessing this is WAY too much calcium, especially with the dusting of D3.

Herptivite contains no vitamin A acetate. Did you see my comments in the last post?

I do mean Herptivite with beta carotene, and I did notice that in your last post. That is the cause of my worry. I've never supplied my adult leo with this, and he's had crickets dusted with Herptivite maybe 2-3 nights in the span of two weeks and that's it. I didn't do it for long, but...this marks 1 week without eating.

Here is a link to a thread concerning my adult's fecal sample from last night. I'm wondering if this will offer any additional insight. I saved the sample in a ziploc bag in case I need it for the vet.
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/community/leopard-geckos-health-diseases/78200-adult-leo-strange-fecal-matter.html

I should note that my adult has been fed crickets on this diet for many years, and I've been told by a vet (as of Summer 2014) that he was healthy, with strong bones. However, for a week straight he has shown signs of: keeping his eyes closed most times (though they look healthy when open), laying around 24/7 (though he does sometimes go to his cool hide and back), and lack of interest in eating (though yesterday he chased one cricket, then decided to give up). Otherwise, he looks normal as usual.

So...should I be taking my adult to the vet? Is this early signs of Herptivite or calcium overdose?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Currently, I am feeding my leo's crickets. This is the primary feeder my adult has eaten for nearly 10 years (again, I know, bad husbandry on my part for not supplying more variety. I'm making effort to better that).

The crickets are being fed potatoes and apples, and are gut-loaded on Fluker's high-calcium cricket diet (a dry food), Fluker's "orange cube" cricket diet (which offers hydration and orange3), and Fluker's calcium-fortified cricket quencher. I'm guessing this is WAY too much calcium, especially with the dusting of D3.

My replies are underlined below in order to separate them from your questions.

Thank you for providing this info. Are you are checking in by phone or a computer? It's important that you click any links to see what I've sent.

I'm very familiar with the products you've mentioned. I recommend a much better dry diet for your crickets. I, too, used to use Flukers' High Calcium Cricket Food. Five years ago I switched to the Albers' mentioned above. That, or the other two foods I mention, is a much better dry diet. There's a quoted Mark Finke study in my Leo Caresheet that indicates crickets fed FHCCF were not significantly better off calcium-wise. For moisture I just spray paper towels with tap water and sometimes feed collards and/or pesticide-free dandelions/leaves.

Click here to see how I keep crickets for at least 2 months beyond purchase:
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-feeding-issues/68574-cricket-guidelines.html

Potatoes and apples are not a balanced cricket diet. That's why I've recommended 3 separate much more balanced diets that include D3, A acetate, and a good ratio of protein to fat. We are what we eat. So are geckos.

There's a USDA foods link in the Cricket Guidelines where one can enter almost any food. Try it. Type in potatoes. You want high calcium, low phosphorus foods. Crickets, it is thought, are way overbalanced in phosphorus already.

I do mean Herptivite with beta carotene, and I did notice that in your last post. That is the cause of my worry. I've never supplied my adult leo with this, and he's had crickets dusted with Herptivite maybe 2-3 nights in the span of two weeks and that's it. I didn't do it for long, but...this marks 1 week without eating.

Now I understand that Herptivite is one cause of your worry.

Here is a link to a thread concerning my adult's fecal sample from last night. I'm wondering if this will offer any additional insight. I saved the sample in a ziploc bag in case I need it for the vet.
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/community/leopard-geckos-health-diseases/78200-adult-leo-strange-fecal-matter.html

If that fecal sample has been refrigerated more than 24 hours, the fecal sample is no good. I will look at it, but I'm NOT a vet. If you click Sleepy Dee's caresheet, you'll find photos of fecal samples: SleepyDee Gecko's - Leopard Geckos, African Fat-Tailed Geckos, Geckonia chazaliae, Tarentola chazalia, Underwoodisaurus milii, Nephrurus milii, Teratolepis fasciata, Hemidactylus imbricatus, Lepidactylus lugubris, Nephrurus levis levis, care, health

I should note that my adult has been fed crickets on this diet for many years, and I've been told by a vet (as of Summer 2014) that he was healthy, with strong bones. However, for a week straight he has shown signs of: keeping his eyes closed most times (though they look healthy when open), laying around 24/7 (though he does sometimes go to his cool hide and back), and lack of interest in eating (though yesterday he chased one cricket, then decided to give up). Otherwise, he looks normal as usual.

So...should I be taking my adult to the vet? Is this early signs of Herptivite or calcium overdose?

Note all my underlined replies above.

Usually "healthy" urates (the white part now tinged with yellow) are totally white. The yellow tinge may indicate that Gabby got too much Herptivite. In the past have the urates been all white?

First stop the Herptivite totally and don't go back to Herptivite. Make sure your leo always has fresh water during this time and always. The only way to reverse/lessen whatever might have happened (probably not too likely seeing you did this for just a short time, is to stop using it, wait a couple weeks, and then use both Zoo Med products.

To read up more on calcium and vitamins, locate Hilde's information in posts #22, 48, 85, and 96 following my Leo Caresheet link below. Let me know whether you can find those including post #24 that I've already mentioned.

1. Please post photos of your leos and of their enclosures.
2. What size are your leo enclosures?
3. Are these leos housed separately?
4. Did your vet do a radiograph/x-ray to check your adult leo Gabby's bone density?
5. What are your warm end and cool end temperatures right now?
6. What type thermometer do you use? The temperatures could be too warm since you mention just recently getting an UTH.

Please ask all questions on this thread. They are all part of husbandry.

 

[NeoLeo87]

Usually "healthy" urates (the white part now tinged with yellow) are totally white. The yellow tinge may indicate that Gabby got too much Herptivite. In the past have the urates been all white?

I'm REALLY glad you told me about the meaning of the yellow tinge. This is admittedly more than I've seen before, but there have been times Gabby has had yellow tinge with the white in the past. That being said, this is only the 2nd or 3rd time in his life that he's gone this long without eating.

1. Please post photos of your leos and of their enclosures.
2. What size are your leo enclosures?
3. Are these leos housed separately?
4. Did your vet do a radiograph/x-ray to check your adult leo Gabby's bone density?
5. What are your warm end and cool end temperatures right now?
6. What type thermometer do you use? The temperatures could be too warm since you mention just recently getting an UTH.

1. The photos of their enclosures were taken in the last few minutes. The photos of the geckos are about a week or two old, but they don't look any different.

Cornbread's enclosure. The brown "rock" hideout is his dry warm hide, and the plastic "tree stump" hideout is his moist warm hide (I keep a damp paper towel in there, which he is currently sitting on.






Gabby's enclosure. He has always had that large rock as his warm hideout, but it's too large to place a moist warm hideout next to. That being said, I do supply him with a custom-made moist hideout when he does shed.





I ordered your recommended "Zoo Med 3-in-1 Reptile Shelter" but I have no idea how Gabby will react to it. I would need a separate smaller dry warm hideout, since the current one is too large.


2. Cornbread's enclosure - 11"H, 24"L, 26"D; Gabby's enclosure - 11"H, 30"L, 32"D

3. Yes, they are housed separately because both are male.

4. From what I recall, no, the vet did not do a radiograph/x-ray.

5. (Using a thermometer gun) Cornbread's enclosure - 71-73F cool side, 83-85F warm side; Gabby's enclosure - 71-72F cool side, 77-80F warm side (though I turned up a heating lamp to try and reach early-mid 80's just now). I also have UTH for both geckos (1st time Gabby has ever had a UTH). UTH temps: During day - 88-92F; During night - 85-89F.

6. I answered this in the above question. I'm using an infrared thermometer. I've attached a link below. Amazon.com : National Geographic Instant Infrared Reptile Thermometer (NG-13-196) : Pet Supplies

Is there a better thermometer I could purchase at any nearby petsmart or petco stores you recommend?

 

[kholtme]

Which type of 3 in 1 hide did you get? Check out my review here --> http://www.geckosunlimited.com/community/herp-products/78186-3-1-hide-review.html

I would recommend getting 2 hides that you can use as warm dry and warm moist 24/7 for gabbys enclosure. Some people switch them out when they notice shedding, but my leo sheds so fast i dont ever see it coming. Also the warm moist hide is a place leopards get a lot of moisture.

Im sure the infrared thermometer you have is fine, although ive never used that brand.

Have you read about the possible problems with reptile carpets? I recommend you switch to tile, but reptile carpets are acceptable if cleaned regularly, although i recommend tile over anything.

 

[NeoLeo87]

UPDATE (3/26 @ 4PM): The house for the crickets was touched up and given some new food - collard greens and the Fluker's dry calcium formula (Elizabeth stated I should use Zoo Med's Bearded Dragon formula instead, but literally NO pet stores around New Orleans sell it...so I will have to purchase it online. Ugh.)



And when I stepped into the room, Gabby was out and about. He seemed interested in exploring past the glass on his cool hide (was he running from the warmth? It wasn't hotter than usual, so he may have just been restless). I got some better pictures to let you all see how he looks despite his lack of eating. This is how he normally looks, so I had no reason to feel alarmed by his appearance or movements.




This marks a full week without eating...but he's my big boy, and he's resilient! I bought Gabby 10 years ago at a garage sale, and he'd been passed around by two owners already. Not with me though! I'm hoping whatever is bothering him will pass, and he'll start eating again, so I can get him (and Cornbread) back on a good diet.

2ND UPDATE (3/26 @ 10:30PM): Gabby was getting some water when I came home and...he pooped AGAIN! The "coil" of urate on his poop is significantly smaller than the large chunk I posted the other night. However, his urate is primarily yellow with a tip of white.

Does this mean he is finally expelling all the vitamin overdosage? If he's not backed up anymore, maybe he'll start eating again? Only time will tell.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To answer kholtme's questions:

1. I got the 3-in-1 hide from Elizabeth's link on her care sheet, and she in fact mentioned your concerns in her caresheet as well. I believe the one I ordered does not have the concave bottom (I hope).

2. As stated earlier, I know that two hides are needed for the warm side, and also addressed the issue of my dry warm hide being too large to fit another one, therefore I will need to find a smaller dry warm hide as well.

3. I plan on switching to tile when I can afford it, hopefully in a few weeks. For now, the carpet doesn't seem to hinder them too much. I understand the issues with carpet though.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

A huge thanks for all that info! :yahoo:

Good to hear that you've "caught" Gabby drinking. Hopefully he's clearing out any excess supplements. Hope the urates return to normal. How are Cornbread's urates?

Be sure to order the adult beardie food, not the juvenile beardie food. Once you start the beardie food, I'd reduce the powdered supplement schedule.

Any chance you might order some hornworms to jumpstart Gabby's appetite? If there is a reptile show near you, some vendor may sell hornworms.

Click: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...feeding-issues/68585-hornworm-guidelines.html

#105---Yellow Urates: Potential Causes......January 2015
Contributed by a vet who also keeps leopard geckos:
"Urate color depends upon things like diet, health, et cetera. Generally urates are very white. More pigmented (especially green) urates can indicate an issue. It is possible that if the animal has not passed stool or urates for some time there can be a little staining of the urate portion of the waste products. I also think that this is sometimes the case if the stool is loose. Then there is a greater chance for pigments to bleed from feces to urates. If it is just little off-color I would keep an eye on it and if it is infrequent I wouldn’t worry. If we are talking dark yellow or green that's biliverdin and it implies that there something more serious going on.

Reptiles lack an enzyme called biliverdin reductase that allows them to convert biliverdin to bilirubin (as mammals do). So their bile is green. If the liver cannot handle removing it from the bloodstream efficiently, levels can exceed the renal threshold and spill into the urates. That would result in the urates being a greenish yellow to green color. What confounds this is that there's some mixing of feces and urine/urates in the cloaca so that some fecal pigments can stain the urates a light yellow color."

 

[NeoLeo87]

How are Cornbread's urates?

Cornbread's are great! Pure white urate, though his feces was mushy last night (I think that's because he ate his shedding). He's a healthy active boy with a voracious appetite.

I will admit...Gabby has had some yellow in his urates for many times over the span of many years...but he's never shown signs of sickness (that I can see). However, he NEVER has as much yellow tinge as he did in that picture I showed. That was a rarity.

Be sure to order the adult beardie food, not the juvenile beardie food. Once you start the beardie food, I'd reduce the powdered supplement schedule.

Definitely. I plan on weaning off the Fluker's ASAP (something I haven't done. Ever. This will be a big (but beneficial) change to their diets).

Any chance you might order some hornworms to jumpstart Gabby's appetite? If there is a reptile show near you, some vendor may sell hornworms.

Unfortunately, I don't think there are any hornworms sold near me. I will have to buy them online. Any recommendated buyers?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To everyone: Thank you SO much for all this help. I'm sure I'll be thanking you again when I can get Gabby fully recovered, but this is a very insightful and caring forum. Thanks again folks!!! Your help doesn't go unnoticed.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

:biggrin:

Kudos to you too for being very thorough.

Hornworm sources in the USA:
MulberryFarms.com
LindasGoneBuggie.com
GreatLakesHornworm.com
CoastalSilkworms.com

 

[NeoLeo87]

UPDATE: As of four nights ago, GABBY ATE CRICKETS! Well, he's now eaten about 2 or 3 since then...and boy did he hunt them. He doesn't "thrash" much anymore when he catches food, and his age is showing, but he's catching them. Gabby's now chilling on top of his warm hide, relaxing.


He's pooped some more as well (obviously). But I'm still noticing that yellow "coil" that connects his urate and his feces. Which, by the way, is more white now...but relatively small. His feces also seems more "light brown" than the usual dark brown that geckos produce? Not sure if that's because of the new diet for the crickets and lack of powdered calcium, or something else.


Concerns thus far: As of now, I'm feeling more assured there is no life-threatening situation. Gabby stalks and scurries, and he has healthy eyes and skin. His tail's a bit slimmer but not that bad. Now, my one concern is Gabby always makes an irritated croaking when he defecates, and sheds. (You know, the kind they make when they're being handled and they don't like it) This is NOT new, by the way. He's always made this noise for the last year...

Do other people's geckos make these stressed/pained noises?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PS: I'm going to go ahead and assume this is now a "Husbandry session for Bryan's geckos" thread, considering we've touched a LOT more bases than I originally sought out.

THANK YOU EVERYONE for support and advice as I make a transition to giving Gabby and Cornbread better and healthier lives. I would be spending a lot more money with a lot less knowledge right now if it weren't for you all, so thanks.

 

[kholtme]

My gecko will randomly chirp. Only heard it twice and it wasnt related to pooping or shedding. I was told not to worry about it and its normal.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

......

PS: I'm going to go ahead and assume this is now a "Husbandry session for Bryan's geckos" thread, considering we've touched a LOT more bases than I originally sought out.

THANK YOU EVERYONE for support and advice as I make a transition to giving Gabby and Cornbread better and healthier lives. I would be spending a lot more money with a lot less knowledge right now if it weren't for you all, so thanks.

Sometimes it takes a village to raise kids, Bryan! :biggrin:

Do you realize that well cared for leos can live into their 20s?

Have you received your 3-in-1?

This thread of yours is top notch! Some members like reading the progress of leos from the beginning.

 

[NeoLeo87]

Have you received your 3-in-1?

I have...and there are concerns. Elizabeth, I think this is especially important for you to consider.

As you can see, this is the SAME 3-in-1 hideout that users have complained about for the concave bottom (because it makes heat more difficult to be reached). The reason I bought this? Despite your warnings to others about this complaint...you have posted the very same link when recommending moist hideouts in your care sheet! Unless this is some error on my part of searching, I would suggest finding a link to the actual 2014 version you refer to, so that owners like myself can benefit.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FEEDING QUESTIONS!

Question 1: If I cannot find any pet stores that carry Reptivite withOUT D3...how can I purchase it? Zoo Med's website says they don't sell their products directly.

Question 2: Is this the bearded dragon food that everyone recommends feeding to crickets? Again, this is NOT at any Petco or Petsmart near me (I checked all four...)


Question 3: Elizabeth, this is another question aimed toward you. I notice you say a higher ratio of calcium to low phosphorus is important, but hornworms have higher phosphorus compared to calcium. Now I know you said supplement this with some powder, BUT you told me to hold off on the powder, so...

What do I do about feeding Gabby these hornworms???

I *think* I have purchased hornworms from Great Lakes (some website errors leave me clueless as to whether the purchase went through or not :roll: ) so I have no idea if they shipped or not.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HIDEOUT QUESTIONS!

Question 1: Should I still consider the above 3-in-1 moist hideout for my adult, Gabby, despite the concave bottom that everyone complains about? Or should I buy something else?

Question 2: What DRY warm hideouts do you recommend? Gabby's current hideout is far too big for me to put both a moist and dry hideout together, so I will have to take away his home he's had for life. But hopefully a moist AND dry warm hideout combo will improve his quality of living.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GABBY UPDATE: As of the last week, Gabby has been eating again...but significantly less than his usual self. He would always eat 2 crickets almost every night...but JUST after moving a couple months ago (plus changing his house drastically, as well as the "herptivite overdose" debacle) he will only eat about 1 cricket every other day.

Gabby has also been defecating "light brown / pinkish" feces twice now (like slightly-cooked-but-still-raw hamburger meat. I posted a picture of this a couple posts above)... That being said, he's acting his usual self, so I don't know if there's any cause for alarm yet. He still wanders and gets curious when he doesn't think I'm looking! ;-)

CORNBREAD UPDATE: I just discovered something awful... Cornbread has a scraped/raw nose! I think it's from "lunging" at his crickets, causing severe rug burn. I posted this concern in a separate thread for "health." Linked here. http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-raw-scraped-nose-carpet-burn.html#post443523

Has anyone had this problem with carpet before? I moved him to paper towels (which I hope work alright with UTH) until I can get slate tile this weekend.


As always, thanks be to you lovely people for your time and thoughts.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Bryan ~

1. Amazon.com carries Zoo Med's Reptivite without D3. I ordered mine from a local independent pet store.

2. IF you get plain calcium carbonate, it is cheaper to go with the NOW brand carried at many health food stores.

3. The link in my caresheet still shows the former medium resin 3-in-1. "I got the 3-in-1 hide from Elizabeth's link on her care sheet, and she in fact mentioned your concerns in her caresheet as well. I believe the one I ordered does not have the concave bottom (I hope)."

As far as I know the resin model I have is no longer available. I had hoped my warnings would be enough to share with people the difference in construction. I spoke with Zoo Med customer service (888-496-6633) on 28 March 2015. For best information I suggest phoning Zoo Med customer service regarding the "heat encapsulation effect" about heat trapped underneath their New Model 3-in-1 hide. Zoo Med has specific recommendations about it's placement in your leo's cage.

4. I recommend and use this as my warm dry hide. The same hide could be used as a cool dry hide. The one I have is reddish. Click: Amazon.com : Exo Terra Reptile Cave, Medium : Reptile Supplies : Pet Supplies

5. Here's another cave: http://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Gec...qid=1416443144&sr=8-3&keywords=exo+terra+cave

6. You've linked the exact Zoo Med's Natural Adult Bearded Dragon Food I recommend.

7. A 1.5-2.0 ratio of calcium to 1.0 phosphorus is recommended. Most bugs/worms are overbalanced in the phosphorus end. Phosphorus impacts calcium absorption.

• That's the reason we wish to lightly dust some of the bugs and worms to rebalance them before feeding them to our geckos.
• That's also a reason feeding a varied diet is best.
• That's a reason to use phosphorus free supplements. Reptivite contains some phosphorus, but its infrequent miniscule use makes it acceptable, I think.

8. Here's a USDA link. Type in almost any food to see the calcium and phosphorus levels plus: http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I *think* I have purchased hornworms from Great Lakes (some website errors leave me clueless as to whether the purchase went through or not ) so I have no idea if they shipped or not.

Are you prepared with a wine cooler OR a picnic cooler, a couple solid ice packs, and a thermometer to keep the hornworms at about 55*F? Otherwise they will quickly grow too large for your leos.

 

[kholtme]

What i was going to do, but decided against because i bought a different hide that im using as my moist hide, was get some reptile safe clay and fill in the bottom of the 3 in 1 hide. Maybe excavator clay? I was going to do this and then test my temps to see if it helped with temps. Maybe you could experiment and see what results you get and share them with us. I just never did because i got a new hide. I am now using my 3 in 1 as my cool dry hide.

 

[NeoLeo87]

For best information I suggest phoning Zoo Med customer service regarding the "heat encapsulation effect" about heat trapped underneath their New Model 3-in-1 hide. Zoo Med has specific recommendations about it's placement in your leo's cage.

So you have talked with them? Then what did they have to say about the 3-in-1 resin hideout?

And if your hideout suggestion is no longer being sold, do you recommend a current moist hideout for users?

GABBY UPDATE: I'm worried about Gabby again... I have gotten him to eat, which is good, and he seems more active than before. However, I noticed his feces was coated in a yellow "goo." Anyone know what this particularly means?

I've been changing a lot of Gabby's lifestyle since joining this forum (as you may know from keeping up to date with Gabby's progress here). I know he was not on the healthiest diet before now, but at least his feces was normal. Now? It's gone from light brown/pinkish, to a yellow coating. I'm just feeling so lost.

CORNBREAD UPDATE: Good news here! Cornbread's tip of his nose is healing ever since I put him on paper towels. I still keep a patch of carpet for his warm hide beneath his UTH, but the rest of his enclosure is paper towels. He's also very social, and likes to crawl on me.

Are you prepared with a wine cooler OR a picnic cooler, a couple solid ice packs, and a thermometer to keep the hornworms at about 55*F? Otherwise they will quickly grow too large for your leos.

Elizabeth, No. I am not prepared. I should make note of it that I work in the film industry, and that means 12 hour shifts, not the regular 9 to 5. I am trying to upgrade my husbandry when I can. Just felt it was important to notify that now, so it didn't seem like my lack of instant upkeep was from lack of care. I love both my boys.

So again, my question to you all, what does my Gabby's yellow feces mean? Is it time for a vet visit?

 

[NeoLeo87]

i bought a different hide that im using as my moist hide,

What did you buy? Mind sharing so that we can give it a look?

Maybe you could experiment and see what results you get and share them with us.

I'm no sculptor, but I will certainly consider something useful to do with this 3-in-1 since I bought it!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I'm glad that Cornbread's nose is healing! Nice that he enjoys your company.

Perhaps your current leo diet and powdered supplements are too much for Gabby with regards to the urate issue, if his urates were white before? Perhaps something else has changed? Maybe a good exotics vet would know the answer. I don't.

Please scroll back to post #27. There I've quoted a vet about non-white urates. This vet also breeds leos. That is all I know.

There you will also finds suggestions about supplementing WHEN you use the Zoo Med's Natural Adult Bearded Dragon Food to feed your bugs and worms. Have you received the beardie food?

I've spoken with Zoo Med. They mention the heat encapsulation effect if using a hide with a concave base. Zoo Med says that at least their ceramic model 3-in-1 should not be kept directly on top of the UTH. They suggest scooting it off the UTH somewhat. They're pretty friendly. Best to talk with them yourself.

Some keepers use this warm moist hide: http://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Gec...qid=1416443144&sr=8-3&keywords=exo+terra+cave

In this caresheet you'll find a page of feces pictures. Check them out: http://sleepydeegeckos.webs.com/index.html

 

[kholtme]

Some keepers use this warm moist hide: http://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Geck...exo+terra+cave

Quoted from Elizabeths above post, This is the hide that i am using for my moist hide. I bought it for a cool dry hide, but once discovering problems with the 3 in 1 i figured i would try it out.

My new moist hide works great! I started off using a paper towel to keep it damp, but soon switched to a layer of eco earth that i packed down best i could. The eco earth holds moisture a little bit longer than paper towels, but since the bowl on the bottom isnt that deep, some eco earth gets kicked out of the entry hole when crawling in and out, not a big deal to me though. There are two holes on the bottom of this hide used to hold it into the packaging, I recommend filling these holes in so water doesnt drain out. I plan on filling these holes with hot glue(whatever you use needs to be non toxic). This hide creates a good amount of condensation, enough to where it was dripping with water after 3 days of not re-damping the eco earth after i removed the top to re-damp. I would recommend it. I liked the 3 in 1 because the bowl was so deep it could hold a lot of moisture to go longer periods without re-damping, but unfortunately it never created condensation because it wasnt getting warm enough.

I now use the 3 in 1 as my cool dry hide, and have loose eco earth in it. My leo has been in it a couple times and i can see signs that he was digging around in the eco earth to make his own bedding. It doubles as a dig box and a cool dry hide. So it works great for that in my opinion.

If your in a pinch for a moist hide while waiting to find/shipping for your new one, try using the top of the 3 in 1 and laying it directly on your substrate over the uth with a damp paper towel in it. This would be better than no moist hide for the mean time, or you could make one out of a plastic container.

 

[NeoLeo87]

FRUSTRATED AS HELL = BAD HUSBANDRY

I have had the most frustrating night with Gabby, the gecko that will not eat. How long do you users need to feed your geckos? I have to take TWO HOURS to feed Gabby.

He will NOT eat a cricket if:
1. The cricket is too far away
2. The cricket walks toward him.
3. The cricket is too fast.

I've tried and tried. I pulled off nearly EVERY leg on a cricket (they're too damn fast even with two legs). He will FINALLY hunt a cricket for...a few feet, and then give up. I've tried everything. I took ALL hideouts away from his tank and only left him and the crickets. I've put a LOT of crickets in there. I placed his hideout back and put four crickets inside with him.

Nothing.

I have never felt so frustrated. The only thing that came out of tonight was Gabby pawing at his carpet, perhaps trying to see if it was a substrate he could move (he's lived on sand all his life), and managing to scare him into hurrying into his hideout (not on purpose). I feel so exhausted. And now that my anger has worn off; depressed.

IMPORTANT: I've said it before, but I'll be more succinct. Gabby has lived on sand, and been fed two calcium dusted crickets every night...for the last 10 YEARS. Ever since I joined this forum I have been trying to change his entire way of living because these forums and care sheets recommend what is a "better living situation." Am I really doing Gabby good with all these changes, or does he absolutely hate this and feel as frustrated as I am?

Lost owner here.