"The Back" of a pet store. Please help.

Ruzei

New member
I would like to begin by saying that I joined this forum sort of as a last resort to help geckos that arent mine.

I work at one of the big chain pet stores as a regular sales associate. Yes, I know they receive a lot of backlash for numerous reasons. No, im not going to give out a specific name.

I desperately want to help these geckos in need. I am however very limited to what I can and cant do since I am a regular associate and the animals are "product."

We have a "back" area of the store, where we keep sick, injured, and overstock animals. It is divided into two rooms, one with the sick and the other with the healthy (not that this will stop transmission being that they are still in the same airspace and equipment is shared) but thats not what this is about anyway.

Right now we have two tanks with geckos. One with 2 and the other with 1 (they did have 3 and 2 respectively, but they are dying off...) We have always had a problem with our geckos, they are always unhealthy and they always arrive to us this way and progressively get worse.
Let me mention now that I only know basic leo care. I have never owned one before, so I am not experienced in terms of health issues. I raise panther chameleons though and have had corns, boas, GTPs, and a beardie before though so im not new to reptiles.

We have all the wrong husbandry for these guys. They are in 15 gallon tanks with carpet, red light bulb, one hide, being fed mealworms only. They say no crickets because they would just eat at the geckos and they are likely right. They show no interest in the worms however. The hide has a wet paper towel with moss, which is something we have never had with our leos before but they did it for these guys since they are in rough shape. There are thermometers but no one looks at them. This could be worse, at least theres no sand.

These geckos are very very sicky looking. Arms and legs and tail are toothpick thin, you can see the outline of their skull, their poop isnt solid, not eating at all, you name it. And I am getting extremely frustrated watching them whither away. To understand the severity of the geckos in question, here are a few pictures:

20150501_172528.jpg20150501_172459.jpg20150501_172414.jpg20150501_172312.jpg20150501_172554.jpg20150501_172540.jpg20150501_172626.jpg

I also want to mention that on the belly of some of the geckos, there is a very dark red triangular shape in the stomach. Im assuming it is some kind of organ, maybe the liver, and im assuming that its not normal for it to be that noticeable and that dark. I can take pictures tomorrow if necessary.

Their care hardly gets taken seriously by anyone. The management claims to have taken them to our vet, and the vet said that there was nothing he could do at all. And that was when the geckos were in slightly better shape. They were sent back with no kind of medication, no instructions, nothing.

When I asked about it, I was told by a manager "Oh theyre malnourished because of competition for food and now theyre not eating because theyre malnourished."

That makes absolutely no sense. Not to mention that there are always crickets and mealworms in the gecko tank on the floor, they are CHOOSING not to eat. The ones we left on the floor arent in any better shape, I dont know why theyre not in the back with the other sick ones. Literally even a 9 year old child commented that our leos on the floor looked sick just the other day. The other day one of the managers said they were about to put them back out on the floor with the customers. I couldnt believe it.

We are giving the geckos reptiboost but I feel like its not doing anything. Im pretty sure it is the only thing they are eating period, and that im the only one even giving it to them. I dont even work every single day to be able to give it to them.
I just really want to help these guys and do what I can given my limited act of power. Ill take any advice I can. I just hate having to sit and watch them die. We lost two within the past few days, they just black bag them and put them in the freezer and we take it mainly as a profit loss.
What on earth can I do to help these geckos?
 
Last edited:

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Those leos are in terrible shape. :(

As an employee, you are in a difficult position. As a customer I made a difference at my local big box store. I spoke with management about keeping leopard geckos on sand & about their temperatures being too cool. Changes were made. Corporate returned my call. Now those leos are on the flip side of repti carpet & the temperatures have vastly improved.

(Checked on them today.)
 

Ruzei

New member
I wonder if I can try to suggest to bring them back to the vet for euthanasia... I agree that they look too far gone to save, not to mention that they are just babies. :( But what about future geckos that arrive in shipment this way? If its early on it may be possible to work with, otherwise they just sit in the tank and it progressively gets worse. Is there anything I can do to help later geckos? I dont even think my management even knows what a healthy gecko looks like, which is why they dont believe me when I say they are all sick. They just think its competition for food and dont bother taking it seriously. I just wish there was something I could do.
 

JIMI

New member
How horrible! :sad:Hasn't the store ever received actual customer complaints? Perhaps if customers got involved they'd consider providing better care. I'd have some friends persistently complain about the health of the reptiles and call their corporate office. It seems like they need to seriously reevaluate their source as well, those leos look like they may even have crypto! Do the other reptiles look this way or is it just the leopard geckos?
 
Last edited:

Ruzei

New member
Its just the leos for the most part. No other reptile looks as sickly as these do. Occasionally we will get tokays that are look thin, and a few weeks back we had a beardie dwindle away from a fungal disease. Our tortoises are also wild-caught and dont look well, who knows what kind of things they may be transmitting. The other day we had a ball python go to the vet for a mass at the end of its tail (I didnt get to see it, I was just told what happened.)

And a few weeks ago as well, and this one made me furious, another baby ball died of pure neglect. Since the day we got him he refused to eat. They would keep trying every week and he never ate the mouse. He went two months + without eating, he had a bad stuck shed, he was looking very thin. They never once brought him to the vet even when I suggested it. I put him in a shed box with warm water and towels for a few hours, tried to get him to eat and hydrate. By the time they figured it was time to take him to the vet (by now his neck was concave) it was too late. It was a Tuesday I believe, we feed our snakes every Thursday. "We'll take him to the vet if he doesnt eat again after Thursday." He died the next day. I only wish I took pictures of this snakes condition.


Things like this happen all the time. They dont take them to the vet until its too late, unless its a small mammal, when abnormalities are easier to spot.
99% of the time, they come to us that way. Whatever breeder we are getting them from is horrible. They also send us baby chameleons that are definitely not old enough to be handed out to the general public, they are barely 2-3 weeks old. Same with the cresties and corns. I believe the company we get our reptiles from is *company name removed - see below*.

Every now and then a customer will say something to the management, but it never goes past that. I dont think anyone has ever called corporate on it, and I wish they would. Most of the people that come in the store are general public, not many that know a lot about reptile health. Parents by their kid a hamster and thats about it, reptile purchases are uncommon. Once in a blue moon though we will get an expert that tells us to check our reptiles, but they pretty much just come and go. If only they knew what we had in the back.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

hmarie186

New member
They all look infected with crypto, sometimes referred to as stick tail disease. It's transmissable amongst geckos living together and by fecal contamination. Unless the cages are cleaned with ammonia or really specialized disinfectant, it will likely keep infecting from animal to animal.
 

acpart

Well-known member
Continuing with the points made by the 2 posters above, possibly the best thing you can do would be to have these geckos tested for crypto. There is a special test that a vet can do. If they are positive for crypto, then you can have them euthanized and decontaminate your equipment. If this isn't done, not only will geckos continue to die, but healthy looking geckos that your customers buy will also eventually die.

Aliza
 

Hilde

Administrator
Staff member
I removed the company name from your post #6.

We can't allow having them singled out, it could cause legal problems.
You're not sure of the supplier, so it's not right to put their name down for what could be a wrong guess. Even if you are right, we can't allow it on this forum, it could blow up into a heck of a mess.
If you are sure of all the info, you could post in the Board of Inquiry® at this link:
Board of Inquiry®
 

Ruzei

New member
I removed the company name from your post #6.

We can't allow having them singled out, it could cause legal problems.
You're not sure of the supplier, so it's not right to put their name down for what could be a wrong guess. Even if you are right, we can't allow it on this forum, it could blow up into a heck of a mess.
If you are sure of all the info, you could post in the Board of Inquiry® at this link:
Board of Inquiry®

My apologies, yeah youre right, I wasnt thinking about that. I am sure now thats what that company was though, I may look into the BOI later on. Yes I am definitely trying to stay out of legal things here, im in no position. :?

[MENTION=5961]Every[/MENTION]one else:

Yes, crypto is something I considered. A few months back I dipped into gecko research a little, and that was a disease I came across and it does fit the description. I cant imagine why else they would always be coming in this way, the entire breeding facility must be infected. Is crypto something that can be transmitted to other reptiles as well, besides the geckos? The geckos share a tier with the beardies right next door, with only a divider separating them. Im gonna do a little more research on it.

Im definitely going to try hard and convince the staff to take at least one gecko in again to get tested for crypto. We just lost another tonight and its very hard to watch. I want them to at least see how serious the problem is and how it is never going to go away until we take measures. Im worried though that our specific vet doesnt even know how to test for it or know anything about crypto for that matter, because he apparently never bothered testing them for anything, he just thinks theyre malnourished and calls it a day. Theres no way I can convince anyone that we need to switch vets.
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
IF crypto is found:

Use ammonia to sterilize a glass tank. Bleach does not kill crypto. Toss the cage furniture.

Ammonia and bleach should never be mixed as they will emit toxic fumes bad for both you and the animals.

"I want to explain the reason why I think it is best to just throw everything out. I have read several of these and the results varied.

Click: Inactivation of Cryptosporidium parvum Oocysts by Ammonia
At the highest concentration of ammonia, a small fraction of viable oocysts still remained."

Click: Prevalence of cryptosporidium infection and characteristics of oocyst shedding in a breeding colony of leopard geckos (Eublepharis macularius). - PubMed - NCBI

---Thanks, cricket4u

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

"If you want to be absolutely sure when disinfecting, use ammonia. Ammonia is the only thing effective at killing crypto, giardia, and coccidia oocyst. "

---Thanks, Mardy (10 July 2013)
 
Last edited:

acpart

Well-known member
There is a way to test for crypto by mail. I will see if I can get the info and post it here.

Aliza
 

hmarie186

New member
There is a different forum where the poster reviews how to go about filling out the form for crypto testing. If you Google it I'm sure you could find it but I don't think I'm allowed to link to another forum. I had my Petco baby tested because it was a huge concern of mine, and tested my other male as well for peace of mind. It costs 24.50 for a test.
 

Ruzei

New member
UPDATE: I talked to the GM (lead store manager, big boss of our location) and she said that theyre not supposed to test for things like crypto because they are supposed to do that before they leave the breeders. I call BS on that because of the condition of these guys... but anyway, she did say that she would take them to the vet again and bring up the topic of euthanasia to the vet and see if she can get them tested anyway. Only if the doctor thinks its necessary though but to me he does not sound very knowledgeable about geckos or crypto for that matter. Hopefully she follows up on this as promised. Will keep you guys updated.

Im definitely going to look into that crypto testing by mail, if I have to pay the money out of my own pocket then so be it....

On the brightish side, the two geckos that were left are doing better. They have a little more fat in their tails than the ones pictured. I have hope for them. However, I did move one gecko from the floor to the sick tank because he was looking as bad as the ones that died. :(
 

acpart

Well-known member
Yes, the avian company is the one that the poster on another forum recommended. I've sent her a PM asking for permission to copy and paste her step by step info and will do it when I get her permission.

Aliza
 

Ruzei

New member
So can anyone tell me whats up with these bellies? Theres the dark red obstruction I mentioned before, along with some kind of yellowish whitish mass... two have a dark red spot too. (the last one is the gecko I just move into the back from the floor)

20150504_143112.jpg 20150504_143122.jpg 20150504_143205.jpg 20150504_143323.jpg
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
So can anyone tell me whats up with these bellies? Theres the dark red obstruction I mentioned before, along with some kind of yellowish whitish mass... two have a dark red spot too. (the last one is the gecko I just move into the back from the floor)

View attachment 34868 View attachment 34869 View attachment 34870 View attachment 34871

The spot on these geckos (#1, #2, and #4) is in the gallbladder/liver area. I do not know what the diffuse yellow masses are. I also saw a yellow mass near the throat of #4.

All these geckos are in critical shape. :( Is there some way you can talk with the vet?

How about phoning Avian Biotech International (800-514-9672) today to find out the details of crypto reporting via mail?
 
Last edited:
Top