JessJohnson87
New member
Um, I know I'm going mad but I'm not that crazy :shock:
Leopard Gecko: Soon to be new owner - Heating Query.
- Thread starter Zux
- Start date
amsdadtodd
New member
Oh, come one, no sense of adventure? It's not like they're gutloaded or anything!
Seriously though, none of my leo's would eat them either. I ended up putting them in my compost bin where they did the most good!
Todd
Seriously though, none of my leo's would eat them either. I ended up putting them in my compost bin where they did the most good!
Todd
JessJohnson87
New member
Maybe if I was really drunk and had no idea what it was. Yeah Ziggy ate them the first couple of times and after that he was like no. Threw the rest outside for the birds or whatever.
Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
OK Jess & Todd ~
Did you guys order genuine Phoenix worms from the Phoenix Worms store or buy imposters somewhere else?
I'm about to rinse some for leo Cha. Her bowl is always empty in the morning.
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amsdadtodd
New member
OK Jess & Todd ~
Did you guys order genuine Phoenix worms from the Phoenix Worms store or buy imposters somewhere else?
I'm about to rinse some for leo Cha. Her bowl is always empty in the morning.
I bought mine from New England Herpetoculture LLC - Live Bugs . This is a reputable source not too far away (Connecticut is the next state over from me) and I know many others nearby who do use them. Also, when I released them into the compost bin they quickly matured. I'm no entomologist, but I'm sure those new bugs around the bin were black soldier flies!
Todd
JessJohnson87
New member
I got mine from Petco. They looked like phoenix worms but who knows.....
Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
Well, Cha's bowl still contained those 17 PWs in the morning, but she scarfed down 14/17 during the day.
Zux
New member
RE - Handling
Hi folks, some people have been asking lately for a little help with handling and taming their new Geckos so I quickly typed up some little tricks and things to keep in mind when doing this.
This following has been the information I have gathered from taming a number of different Geckos with wildly varied personalities and tolerances of human contact, this is by no means the
only way to do things.
The first thing to remember when trying to tame any Gecko is that they all have distinct personalities, anything you have read about a particular keeper's experience may or may not apply to you.
None of the taming process is scripted and it is wise for us to be respectful and try to go at a pace comfortable for the individual at hand. Forcing things unnecessarily quickly is likely to have a negative mental impact on the Gecko and believe it or not, they do remember these (sometimes forever).
With that said there are some rules which you can / should always follow before following certain steps towards taming your pet.
Making sure to follow these rules you can begin the sometimes lengthy process of taming your Gecko, as I hinted at earlier this may take a very short or a very long time (likely somewhere in between) depending on the Gecko's personality and how careful you are throughout the process.
I have one Leopard Gecko for example who is now almost 10 months old and will still instantly flee to her hide at the sound of even my voice despite hearing it every night and tolerating handling itself very well. Some of them are just nervous individuals and this in most cases can still be worked with, though there are rare exceptions.
In contrast to this another Leopard Gecko I have took no taming at all, and I mean none. She came and ate from my hand the first night I placed her in her terrarium and the next morning instantly crawled onto my hand, up my arm and out of her environment and I have yet to see a single sign of fear months later, no matter what happens even her breathing doesn't elevate.
The point being Geckos can be vastly different even with the exact same care from the owner, so don't worry if things do not go as quickly as you like, some, as with humans, take time.
My advice is follow and repeat the following steps one by one until you can tell your Gecko is totally OK with what each involves.
Step 1: After you have given the Gecko between a week and two weeks to settle in to their new environment and begin functioning normally you can begin to familiarize them with your sight and sound, sit by the tank when you know they can see you and talk to them, a little softly but not too far from what they are going to hear daily from now on. This will help your new pet to realize you are not there to hunt them. Do this at night as often and for as long as you have time. A friend of mine studies and reads books aloud next to his African Fat Tail Geckos terrarium.
Step 2: Now that your Gecko is used to your presence next up is getting used to your smell and your hand being very close to them. Begin by slowly placing your hand onm the floor of their terrarium and see if they will come to investigate, this may take a long time, if this isn't working or stopped working move the hand to the door of their hide and waiting for them to come and investigate. Position it so that if your Gecko wishes to leave its hide it must walk across the hand, I always begin palm down at first for this step. I have yet to see a gecko that without due patience who wont come and at least look at the hand and see what it is, they are naturally curious. It should be noted however that as always some may take significantly longer than others to show any interest and patience WILL be required. The point here is getting the Gecko to realize that your hand is absolutely zero threat to them. The reason for them developing a real trust with your hand is to enable further taming through the next stages. So if you can wait until the Gecko walks onto your hand itself before moving forward with the next steps that is highly advised but not prerequisite.
Step 3: Once your Gecko has no fear of walking onto your hand you can begin to slowly lift it off the ground as the gecko is walking over it, do this slowly and only lift it a couple of inches at first before slowly placing it back down, this allows the Gecko to get used to the sensation.
Step 4: The next step from here is some short hand walking, lift your hand once your gecko is on it and slowly place your second hand in front of your Gecko as it begins to try to walk off the lifted hand, you can judge your Geckos comfort level with this by the speed at which it walks, if it slowly ambles from hand to hand continue to do it for 30 seconds or so, otherwise as soon as it begins to try to run allow it back to the ground by lowering your hand and keeping it in place where you lower it to until the gecko is in a secure spot again. Repeat this until you can get the Gecko to calmly walk between the hands at least 10 times or so. You may note at first it isn't even that cool with walking once, but this will improve with time.
Step 5: Next up is getting the Gecko used to not just your hand but your touch, once your gecko has become comfortable with climbing on and over your hand you can start very slowly touching it, what I did was try to gently stroke its side with a finger because I knew this would be the place it would be lifted up from when it came to handling. Generally speaking once your gecko is used to your hand and see's your touch coming it wont react badly to very light contact. Repeat this until you can tell the Gecko is not frightened by touch, try different areas such as the back and top of the head but always be gentle and avoid the tail. Mistakes here can push taming backward and not forward so pay attention and be gentle.
Step 6: The next and final step is picking your Gecko up, note I did not say grabbing your gecko, this isn't and never will be something I suggest doing, no matter the situation.
Use as many fingers as the space between your Geckos legs allow and very gently push your fingers underneath his/her belly while doing the same with your thumb from the other side, try to ensure you do not catch his or her skin if you're doing this when they are laying down. Lift the Gecko by its sides this way and place it into an open hand as soon as you can do so because unless they are fully supported they feel uncomfortable and will quickly struggle.
So that covers the basics, once you have gone through all of these stages and allowed a sufficient amount of time within each for your gecko to become accustomed the the new experiences it becomes a matter of repetition in order to fully tame your Gecko.
As a final note I cant stress enough the importance of patience and of trying to look at things from their point of view, rushing things like this with reptiles only has negative effects on their long term tolerances to handling and people in general.
Try to be aware of when your Gecko is not happy or feeling scared, quick pulsing of the throat almost always indicates increased level of fear and extra care should be taken when your Gecko is feeling this way. Likewise when they move in sudden bursts and stay deathly still between those they are behaving defensively and shouldn't be stressed further. If you are somewhat informed as to how they normally move and act you can make more effective decisions on how you behave around them and minimize the negative experiences they associate you with.
Good Luck
Hi folks, some people have been asking lately for a little help with handling and taming their new Geckos so I quickly typed up some little tricks and things to keep in mind when doing this.
This following has been the information I have gathered from taming a number of different Geckos with wildly varied personalities and tolerances of human contact, this is by no means the
only way to do things.
The first thing to remember when trying to tame any Gecko is that they all have distinct personalities, anything you have read about a particular keeper's experience may or may not apply to you.
None of the taming process is scripted and it is wise for us to be respectful and try to go at a pace comfortable for the individual at hand. Forcing things unnecessarily quickly is likely to have a negative mental impact on the Gecko and believe it or not, they do remember these (sometimes forever).
With that said there are some rules which you can / should always follow before following certain steps towards taming your pet.
- When close to your reptile never make sudden / jerky movements for any reason, this instantly triggers a flight response in all Geckos, I find to be irrespective of their personality.
In other words - They all hate it. - When close to your reptile try to speak at a reasonable volume, shouting or other loud noises tends to startle and / or stress them out, making them less receptive to handling or anything but hiding for that matter. Getting them used to your voice is very useful long term.
- When attempting to tame any Gecko try to do so at a time they are normally comfortable being awake and outside of their favorite hide spots. For example a Leopard Gecko or African Fat Tail will likely not wish to come to your hand for any reason including food bribes during daylight hours as this is a time they normally stay hidden, compounding the stress of your presence further.
- When attempting to introduce your hand to the Gecko and assuming you're not fortunate enough to have a Terrarium with front opening doors then then try to allow he/she to see the hand coming from as far away as possible, In other words, don't just reach in from the air above the gecko as this is seen by them as predatory behavior and instantly makes them wary.
Making sure to follow these rules you can begin the sometimes lengthy process of taming your Gecko, as I hinted at earlier this may take a very short or a very long time (likely somewhere in between) depending on the Gecko's personality and how careful you are throughout the process.
I have one Leopard Gecko for example who is now almost 10 months old and will still instantly flee to her hide at the sound of even my voice despite hearing it every night and tolerating handling itself very well. Some of them are just nervous individuals and this in most cases can still be worked with, though there are rare exceptions.
In contrast to this another Leopard Gecko I have took no taming at all, and I mean none. She came and ate from my hand the first night I placed her in her terrarium and the next morning instantly crawled onto my hand, up my arm and out of her environment and I have yet to see a single sign of fear months later, no matter what happens even her breathing doesn't elevate.
The point being Geckos can be vastly different even with the exact same care from the owner, so don't worry if things do not go as quickly as you like, some, as with humans, take time.
My advice is follow and repeat the following steps one by one until you can tell your Gecko is totally OK with what each involves.
Step 1: After you have given the Gecko between a week and two weeks to settle in to their new environment and begin functioning normally you can begin to familiarize them with your sight and sound, sit by the tank when you know they can see you and talk to them, a little softly but not too far from what they are going to hear daily from now on. This will help your new pet to realize you are not there to hunt them. Do this at night as often and for as long as you have time. A friend of mine studies and reads books aloud next to his African Fat Tail Geckos terrarium.
Step 2: Now that your Gecko is used to your presence next up is getting used to your smell and your hand being very close to them. Begin by slowly placing your hand onm the floor of their terrarium and see if they will come to investigate, this may take a long time, if this isn't working or stopped working move the hand to the door of their hide and waiting for them to come and investigate. Position it so that if your Gecko wishes to leave its hide it must walk across the hand, I always begin palm down at first for this step. I have yet to see a gecko that without due patience who wont come and at least look at the hand and see what it is, they are naturally curious. It should be noted however that as always some may take significantly longer than others to show any interest and patience WILL be required. The point here is getting the Gecko to realize that your hand is absolutely zero threat to them. The reason for them developing a real trust with your hand is to enable further taming through the next stages. So if you can wait until the Gecko walks onto your hand itself before moving forward with the next steps that is highly advised but not prerequisite.
Step 3: Once your Gecko has no fear of walking onto your hand you can begin to slowly lift it off the ground as the gecko is walking over it, do this slowly and only lift it a couple of inches at first before slowly placing it back down, this allows the Gecko to get used to the sensation.
Step 4: The next step from here is some short hand walking, lift your hand once your gecko is on it and slowly place your second hand in front of your Gecko as it begins to try to walk off the lifted hand, you can judge your Geckos comfort level with this by the speed at which it walks, if it slowly ambles from hand to hand continue to do it for 30 seconds or so, otherwise as soon as it begins to try to run allow it back to the ground by lowering your hand and keeping it in place where you lower it to until the gecko is in a secure spot again. Repeat this until you can get the Gecko to calmly walk between the hands at least 10 times or so. You may note at first it isn't even that cool with walking once, but this will improve with time.
Step 5: Next up is getting the Gecko used to not just your hand but your touch, once your gecko has become comfortable with climbing on and over your hand you can start very slowly touching it, what I did was try to gently stroke its side with a finger because I knew this would be the place it would be lifted up from when it came to handling. Generally speaking once your gecko is used to your hand and see's your touch coming it wont react badly to very light contact. Repeat this until you can tell the Gecko is not frightened by touch, try different areas such as the back and top of the head but always be gentle and avoid the tail. Mistakes here can push taming backward and not forward so pay attention and be gentle.
Step 6: The next and final step is picking your Gecko up, note I did not say grabbing your gecko, this isn't and never will be something I suggest doing, no matter the situation.
Use as many fingers as the space between your Geckos legs allow and very gently push your fingers underneath his/her belly while doing the same with your thumb from the other side, try to ensure you do not catch his or her skin if you're doing this when they are laying down. Lift the Gecko by its sides this way and place it into an open hand as soon as you can do so because unless they are fully supported they feel uncomfortable and will quickly struggle.
So that covers the basics, once you have gone through all of these stages and allowed a sufficient amount of time within each for your gecko to become accustomed the the new experiences it becomes a matter of repetition in order to fully tame your Gecko.
As a final note I cant stress enough the importance of patience and of trying to look at things from their point of view, rushing things like this with reptiles only has negative effects on their long term tolerances to handling and people in general.
Try to be aware of when your Gecko is not happy or feeling scared, quick pulsing of the throat almost always indicates increased level of fear and extra care should be taken when your Gecko is feeling this way. Likewise when they move in sudden bursts and stay deathly still between those they are behaving defensively and shouldn't be stressed further. If you are somewhat informed as to how they normally move and act you can make more effective decisions on how you behave around them and minimize the negative experiences they associate you with.
Good Luck
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Zux
New member
RE - Thermometers
Hi guys,
So over the last few weeks I have been buying decor and customizing some new Terrariums for a couple of new Leopard Gecko's and so I had to buy new Thermometers for warm/cold air and warm/cold floor temperature's again which reminding me of something which puzzled me since getting into the hobby.
What I had noticed in my first Leo's terrarium and noticed again this time was something about how digital probe thermometers seem to work, or at least in the case of the brand's that I have used (Exo-Terra & Zoo-Med). When taped to the floor all the thermometers would read a lower temperature, sometimes up to 10 degrees lower depending on location and position of probe than two different of infra-red temp-guns read for that point of the floor.
It would make sense that the temp guns accurately read the surface temperatures and when tested on other things to verify this fact they did indeed do this very well, which would lead me to believe that the probes on the thermometers were being thrown off by something in the environment.
When I first noticed it I assumed that the temperature may be being thrown off by its contact with the air above the point it was taped to. Sure enough when I placed the thermometer within the substrate itself, in this case a hard packed clay/sand mix just below the surface the temperature was correct and aligned with what the temperature guns were reading.
Now because I had always worried about how reliable these probes would be in giving a true picture of the floor temperatures across a given area I always used and relied on the infra-red guns to calibrate and set my heating equipment anyway but I thought it worth mentioning for those of you who may be being mislead by the probes.
PS: It's also worth noting that the probes are always within 0.1 degree accuracy when measuring air temperatures and I assume that is because the air itself encapsulates the entire probe as distinct from it only one side of the probe being in contact with the substrate as is the case when its taped to the floor of ones terrarium.
Hope you and all your Geckos are all doing well.
Hi guys,
So over the last few weeks I have been buying decor and customizing some new Terrariums for a couple of new Leopard Gecko's and so I had to buy new Thermometers for warm/cold air and warm/cold floor temperature's again which reminding me of something which puzzled me since getting into the hobby.
What I had noticed in my first Leo's terrarium and noticed again this time was something about how digital probe thermometers seem to work, or at least in the case of the brand's that I have used (Exo-Terra & Zoo-Med). When taped to the floor all the thermometers would read a lower temperature, sometimes up to 10 degrees lower depending on location and position of probe than two different of infra-red temp-guns read for that point of the floor.
It would make sense that the temp guns accurately read the surface temperatures and when tested on other things to verify this fact they did indeed do this very well, which would lead me to believe that the probes on the thermometers were being thrown off by something in the environment.
When I first noticed it I assumed that the temperature may be being thrown off by its contact with the air above the point it was taped to. Sure enough when I placed the thermometer within the substrate itself, in this case a hard packed clay/sand mix just below the surface the temperature was correct and aligned with what the temperature guns were reading.
Now because I had always worried about how reliable these probes would be in giving a true picture of the floor temperatures across a given area I always used and relied on the infra-red guns to calibrate and set my heating equipment anyway but I thought it worth mentioning for those of you who may be being mislead by the probes.
PS: It's also worth noting that the probes are always within 0.1 degree accuracy when measuring air temperatures and I assume that is because the air itself encapsulates the entire probe as distinct from it only one side of the probe being in contact with the substrate as is the case when its taped to the floor of ones terrarium.
Hope you and all your Geckos are all doing well.
JessJohnson87
New member
My digital thermometer was reading about 5* cooler than what my gun and thermostat read. I have tile so I would have to place it directly on the glass but great observation Shane
Zux
New member
My digital thermometer was reading about 5* cooler than what my gun and thermostat read. I have tile so I would have to place it directly on the glass but great observation Shane
Good to hear other people report the same, I was frantic trying to figure out which one was lieing to me at first, thanks Jess
JessJohnson87
New member
I was to, I thought the battery might be going out but once I placed it on my roach bin, it was fine. Now everything seems to be working as it should.
How many leo's do you have now?
How many leo's do you have now?
Zux
New member
I have 4 now :shock:
JessJohnson87
New member
Awesome!!!! I want more but I'm not allowed
amsdadtodd
New member
I've always had some concerns about those probes, for pretty much the same reasons you gave. My warm side floor probes and thermostat probes are all on the floor of the tank and sandwiched between two pieces of travertine. The moist hide is placed on top of the travertine and over the probes, effectively burying them in substrate. As a result, the air flow is significantly reduced around the probe and when I verify it with the IR wand it's closely correlated, within a degree or so.
kholtme
New member
I have come to the same conclusion, and have tried different methods, all of which i was trusting my temp gun over my thermostat. I always wondered if it was just me or if the probes didnt seem to work good. I have tried taping the probe down with aluminum tape (most sticky) but it trapped in heat and didnt have good results. Ive tried using packing tape, which isnt very sticky to my rough tile, so the probe wasnt pressed firmly against the tile. This worked fine if my thermostat was set to around 84, but as soon as Gaz would lay on the probe the floor temps shot up to about 97, so no good. The best way i have found is using no tape but placing the probe between a decor item and the tile, close to the warm dry hide (my hide isnt heavy enough and gets moved around by Gaz) My thermostat is set to 87, but i get a variety of temps between 88-96 in the warm dry hide. Gaz can move to cooler ground if needed. I can not find a setting that keeps warm side ground temps between 88-92.
kholtme
New member
I have thought of why these temps vary often and this is the conclusion i have come up with. (Referring to the hydrofarm thermostat). The thermostats we use are meant to be used in soil, in soil they are 100% surrounded by the same temp. When we use the probe on a flat surface, we are only getting 1-10% of the probe to touch the hot surface, the other 90-99% of the probe is touching air. So 1-10% is 92 degrees, the other 90-99% is 78 degrees(estimated ground and air averages). this averages about 84 degrees to cover 100% of the probe. I think with the probes being cheaper, they just take the temps as a whole, since they arent designed to gather temps from the hottest thing they are touching. Which makes sense, because if you are making a thermostat for potting plants, why would you waste money on making the probes take temps in a way that isnt necessary for soil. This is the conclusion i have found since my thermostat says 84 degrees, but the ground temp is 92. If I were to make a thermostat, my probe would be flat and would only take temps from one side. So this way it would read 100% ground temp, and wouldnt be effected by air temp, decor placed on top, or if a gecko laid on the probe. Think about it, you have ground temp of 92 degrees, and air temp of lets say 76 degrees. Average temp of the probe is about 84 just guessing, but as soon as your gecko lays on the probe, air temp is now the geckos body temp, which would be about 86-92, since that heat is trapped on the geckos belly. So now average probe temp is 90 degrees, which would make the floor temp ride 4 degrees give or take.
So over all, I think you will see more steady temps if you have the probe in a place where the gecko cant lay on it, but the thermostat being different than the actual floor temp isnt a product failure, its just we arent using the thermostat as it is designed. If you had loose substrate, all this is thrown out the window, and i bet you could set the thermostat to what temp you want and it would be accurate within 1 degree.
So over all, I think you will see more steady temps if you have the probe in a place where the gecko cant lay on it, but the thermostat being different than the actual floor temp isnt a product failure, its just we arent using the thermostat as it is designed. If you had loose substrate, all this is thrown out the window, and i bet you could set the thermostat to what temp you want and it would be accurate within 1 degree.
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Elizabeth Freer
Well-known member
An FYI:
The Hydrofarm MTPRTC is currently being marketed for reptiles and brewing as well: Amazon.com : Jump Start MTPRTC, Digital ETL-Certified Heat Mat Thermostat for Seed Germination, Reptiles and Brewing : Plant Germination Heating Mats : Patio, Lawn & Garden
For FAQs click: https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/MTPRTC
The Hydrofarm MTPRTC is currently being marketed for reptiles and brewing as well: Amazon.com : Jump Start MTPRTC, Digital ETL-Certified Heat Mat Thermostat for Seed Germination, Reptiles and Brewing : Plant Germination Heating Mats : Patio, Lawn & Garden
For FAQs click: https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/MTPRTC
Zux
New member
What Kholtme is saying however is the same as the issue I reported with probe thermometers, while they may be marketed for reptiles as-well as the other uses, I too believe the probe design does not allow them to function as intended when used with non particulate substrates because too little of the probe remains in contact with the desired surface at any point in time.
I feel as though we as reptile keepers have long accepted the readings on a thermostat need be verified by other means because they are notoriously inaccurate for our uses, this is perhaps why.
In any case what I can say for certain is that since I buried my probes within the hard clay mixes I now use for all the terrariums my Digital Thermometers, Infra-Red Guns and Thermostats all agree with one another day and night.
JessJohnson87
New member
For a while, I had mine underneath a wash cloth, now it is out in the open. I'm going to test this and see if I get different readings with it out in the open and back underneath the wash cloth.