Not sure if I should be worried or not.

[cjfox]

Hi all,

I'm getting a little worried about my Leo, Owen.

You can see from my intro post that he's not had the best previous upbringing, but I am trying my hardest to get him back on track.
http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm.../79365-hi-uk-geckos-owen-pico.html#post449940

The vet said he was healthy, though he needed a little weight.

Owens a good size, his tail is plump, he can hold his weight, walks normally and when he wants to move, will readily move.

He's gone completely off of crickets though, I put them in the tank and have found them later not having been eaten. He seems to only want mealworms (which are all properly fed for 24 hours min before going into the tank.

He usually goes through those really well, but just recently, he's not. He stays in his humid hide all of the time. You see him possibly having moved in there a little, so maybe one time you see his tail, then a few hours later, you see his side etc, but he never does much, but move slowly in there.
I tend to find that he doesn't vacate the hide until and after all the moss has dried up.
The tank is lit by a small pygmy bulb in the daylight hours, switching to a moonlight led strip at night (which turns off during the middle of the night completely before coming back on for early/late morning)

He's on reptile cage carpet with an under the carpet heat mat on a thermostat. Temps are 34c on the hot side and 24 on the cold.
He's always pooped okay in the past, passing fecies and urate correctly. All shedding is okay

I've just removed some of the decor from the tank and moved the water bowl, meal worms and calcidust closer to him, just to make things easier, though I know and have seen him having moved around the tank decor, so I am positive that was no issue.

I did hold out a meal worm to him, which it's moving and wriggling meant he moved straight for it and tried to grab it from in the moist hide, so he seems to be able to and want to eat things. Unfortunately he missed and I jumped and the mealworm dropped. Owen decided to go back into his hide and shy away.

I've drizzled a little water on the outside of the hide so that if he wants to take in some water, he can do.

But I'm actually beginning to worry now. I love my reptiles to pieces and just want to be a good owner/keeper to them. I'd prefer to know that I have a lazy gecko than that he is unwell.

Can you fine people allay my fears if I am worrying about nothing?


With Regards,

 

[kholtme]

Being cold blooded, these animals dont really do much. They just lay around, and usually only move a lot if they are scared or see food. They do explore at night, but not a bunch. Its normal for them to just stay in one hide for hours on end. Although i think there are some husbandry issues with your set up. For starters, bright lights arent good, and will cause your gecko to be in hides more than without bright lights. You really only need a uth (which is supposed to go under the tank, not under the carpet. I would get rid of the lights for good. You dont need them and they are only hurting. If the air temp is particularly cold, you could get a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) with a 10 inch dome for warmth. They dont produce any light. It is also not good to leave crickets in the cage unattended. They will bite and annoy your gecko by walking on him. Only give him food he will eat right away, then remove the rest. The crickets can also eat the geckos poop, which could make him sick if he eats the cricket.

I also suggest removing and supplements from the tank and only using them to dust his food according to what he needs.

 

[cjfox]

Hi there,

Much obliged for the response.

I do agree with what you say and did go out of my way to remove the crickets that he hadn't had. Just that some were found hiding away where I didn't see them, is all.

The tank is a wooden vivarium, so the heat mat can't go on the outside, it wouldn't get any heat in the tank otherwise. It's controlled by a thermostat and he can't lay directly on it, there's a digital temp sensor on it to be sure it's at a safe temp.

I'll definitely consider switching the lights off though if they are making things worse.

Thank you for your reply though, it is appreciated.

 

[cjfox]

Okay, the lights have been nullified for now.

 

[kholtme]

Okay great, let us know how he does. It takes a while for these creatures to get used to us. The longer you have him the more you should see him out and about.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi ~

How about sharing pictures of your leo's in-tank UTH setup?

Here are a couple ways to place an UTH inside your leo's wooden cage:



Scroll to post #60 following my Leo Caresheet for details and one other example.

 

[cjfox]

Hi there,

Will do yeah, when I get home from work,

As a guide, it's sitting flat on the bottom of the tank inside with the thermostat atop it. Then, atop of that is the repti carpet on which the warm hide and the humid hide sit, along with the temp probe.

I'll get a photo for you though so you can see, I am definitely willing to change things if I need to do so.

With Regards,

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi there,

Will do yeah, when I get home from work,

As a guide, it's sitting flat on the bottom of the tank inside with the thermostat atop it. Then, atop of that is the repti carpet on which the warm hide and the humid hide sit, along with the temp probe.

I'll get a photo for you though so you can see, I am definitely willing to change things if I need to do so.

With Regards,

Hello ,

It seems like it's necessary to have some airflow near your UTH. What you describe seems like no ventilation for your UTH at all.

When UTHs are placed underneath vivariums, one always needs to elevate the corners of the enclosure to provide airflow. Exo Terra tanks are built with that elevation.

What do you think?

Perhaps [MENTION=41440]mecoat[/MENTION] will stop by this thread. Her leo's enclosure is the white one pictured on the right.

 

[mecoat]

Hi everyone. Elizabeth thanks for tagging me on this. I really must get a newer pic uploaded here of my viv (that's an old one). With a wooden viv, you can't put the mat outside (as the wood will insulate it far too well), so it must go inside. My mat instructions actually said to put it inside the viv. I'd be inclined to put the mat on the floor, and the "carpet" on top, then the thermostat on the floor inside a hide on top of that.

cjfox, do you have a temperature gun or just an probe thermometer? If you've got a gun, you could leave it set up like i suggested above, then with the gun carefully whip off the carpet and test the mat (for overheating). Otherwise if you're concerned about overheating still, you could attach the mat to something else (I use a glass chopping board), and elevate it (I use metal chutney pots), so your leo can use under the glass as a hide, or they can use hide(s) on top too.

 

[mecoat]

Sorry about the writing on the "glass" it where i keep Daff info before typing it into the computer (drywipe pen). I'll try to post another without writing later. You should be able to see what I want to show though.

Cold side on the right, warm side on the left. On the floor is a square heat mat with a thermostat in the red hide (set to 32c), on the bottom of the glass is another matching heat mat (set to 31C), low wattage bulb produces very little heat (I can touch the bulb even when it's been on for a while), and the CHE is a 25W on a thermostat (can't see that at the moment to tell you what it's set at, but it's lower then the mats). As you can see, the glass is elevated. Daff loves it under there, and it became his new favourite hide when I changed things.

Hope this helps

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi everyone. Elizabeth thanks for tagging me on this. I really must get a newer pic uploaded here of my viv (that's an old one). With a wooden viv, you can't put the mat outside (as the wood will insulate it far too well), so it must go inside. My mat instructions actually said to put it inside the viv. I'd be inclined to put the mat on the floor, and the "carpet" on top, then the thermostat on the floor inside a hide on top of that.

cjfox, do you have a temperature gun or just an probe thermometer? If you've got a gun, you could leave it set up like i suggested above, then with the gun carefully whip off the carpet and test the mat (for overheating). Otherwise if you're concerned about overheating still, you could attach the mat to something else (I use a glass chopping board), and elevate it (I use metal chutney pots), so your leo can use under the glass as a hide, or they can use hide(s) on top too.

So you feel that it's OK (not a fire hazard) to have no airflow next to the UTH if you place it on the inside floor and cover it with a reptile carpet?

Thanks for the current pics. I've "captured" them for an update.

 

[mecoat]

That's why I suggested testing with a temp gun (you get an instant reading, so it won't cool down too much when you take the carpet off to test the mat).

I wouldn't know for sure, my mat on the floor is under the loose substrate or the hide (which is a children's lunch box, thanks Poundworld), so it's covered, although because the substrate moves, and Daff likes a good dig, it's got some air. I'm not that familiar with the carpets, so can't specifically help there.

Perhaps cut some small holes in the carpet for ventilation?

The reason I suggested bringing the thermostat probe above the carpet is that the carpet will insulate and so the temp above will be lower than anticipated.