Double sick leo

[majahawt]

Hi guys! I haven't been on for a long time because I've been pretty busy... I don't know if anyone remembers, but earlier this year I had trouble with my little girl Eclair. She didn't want to eat and things I tried included baths, electrolyte supplements, sunlight, temperature adjusting, different dishes/hand/tong feeding and much, much more. I took her to the vet and handed in a fecal sample. They told me they'd call me back the next week with the results... But they never did. I went by and called several times but they always told me that no results had come in yet (although I was following it up for months).

A few months after that, we moved. For the past two months, she has not been eating at all. Last week I saw signs of what I thought could be an RI and I took her to the vet, who confirmed she had an infection in her lungs (much like bronchitis in humans). She also said she'd email the old vet and ask for the results of the fecal they did.

I'm currently treating her with antibiotics and a medicine that expands her lungs a little to help her breathe, as well as elevated temperatures and a really well-misted humid hide (to help dislodge phlegm in her lungs). I also removed the cork bark (that she loves) from her tank so she won't inhale any potential dust. This morning I got a call from the vet, who'd already gotten a response from the old vet. Apparently, Eclair has a higher than normal amount of pinworms... I'll have to go in on Monday to pick up her parasite medication.

I'm pretty furious with the old vet for never giving me the results - Eclair would probably have been able to fight off this infection if she had more strength from eating properly. I feel so bad for my little child.

And along with that, I have a couple of questions
1) She's not even eating waxworms anymore and she needs to eat along with her medication so I've been feeding her bug slurry (mealworms, superworms, waxworms, dubias, multivitamin, water and electrolytes). Can I leave some of it in her tank in a shallow dish so she'll lick some up when she investigates or will it go bad quickly?

2) She refuses to lick anything off of her face or mouth because she's stressed out, so in order to give her her medication, I have to poke the side of her mouth until she bites and then hold it open. So far, I've been using a pair of plastic tongs for this but today I noticed that it caused a little bit of bruising on her lips. Is there any better way of getting her to open her mouth and keep it open?

Any advice anyone has on taking care of an ill gecko would be appreciated as well. I'm expecting some critical care formula for her in the mail within a few days

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi Maja ~

It's been a long time! I've missed you.

I'm quite sorry to hear about Eclair. It's a darn shame that your first vet dropped the ball. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

You can try leaving a small amount of your bug slurry in the viv. I'd change it daily.

Antibiotics sometimes take away the appetite. That will not help.

From what I see on Amazon, Critical Care is for herbivores. What Eclair needs is Oxbow's Carnivore Care.

Amazon.com : Oxbow Carnivore Care Pet Supplement, 2.5-Ounce : Pet Supplements And Vitamins : Pet Supplies

Have you seen this:

? It helps to have an assistant (or a third hand).

 

[majahawt]

Thanks for the response and the video - I'll look further into a couple of things. I've heard about that method to get them to open their mouths before but for some reason, Eclair has never reacted like the geckos in the video. Basically she clamps up or something... She's generally a weirdo, I guess.

She did actually poo today, from the bug slurry yesterday, which is great. It's not a good looking poo but she hadn't gone in... About a week, I think. Surely she's feeling a bit better today :>

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Maybe Eclair has watched that video and wishes to be stubborn.

When my vet wants to open my geckos' mouths, it seems like a piece of cake. Not so with me either.

 

[majahawt]

The way I'm doing it now is really just what the vet did while examining her - I push on the side of her mouth a little with the plastic tongs until she opens up and then I put one of the... Well, half of the tongs horizontally in her mouth so that even if she turns her head, it's still being kept open. It's hard to explain but it works pretty well because it means I can just sneak droppers or syringes or whatever in there

If this is her mouth () then I put one side of the tongs in like this I guess (1)

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

The way I'm doing it now is really just what the vet did while examining her - I push on the side of her mouth a little with the plastic tongs until she opens up and then I put one of the... Well, half of the tongs horizontally in her mouth so that even if she turns her head, it's still being kept open. It's hard to explain but it works pretty well because it means I can just sneak droppers or syringes or whatever in there

If this is her mouth () then I put one side of the tongs in like this I guess (1)

Hey, you're great with visuals!

You might try brushing your index finger along her lips.

 

[majahawt]

Haha :3

I tried the technique in the video today and after a while she opened her mouth for about... Half a second and wouldn't do it again lol. She's struggling more with each medicine-session, which I'm taking as a good sign. Today she also lapped up lots of bug slurry from the dropper voluntarily

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Haha :3

I tried the technique in the video today and after a while she opened her mouth for about... Half a second and wouldn't do it again lol. She's struggling more with each medicine-session, which I'm taking as a good sign. Today she also lapped up lots of bug slurry from the dropper voluntarily

:banana: Eclair is doing a good job with you!

I know that split second opened mouth...gotta be quick!

 

[majahawt]

The food I had originally ordered for her (Fluker's Insectivore/Carnivore ReptaBoost) arrived today, even though it was scheduled for the 4th of January. It's good but I just ordered the Critical Care... I guess that'll be sitting on the shelf for if I ever need it.

She had her first dose of the parasite meds today, which she's gonna get once a week for 4 weeks. Hopefully we'll see an improvement in her appetite and poo after a while. It's getting more and more difficult to administer medicine and food because she is getting FEISTY but that's really just a good thing! She didn't like the ReptaBoost as much as the bug slurry but TOUGH because it's much better for her.

I talked to someone who owns a leo with chronic lung problems and they suggested giving her a hot bath and then lightly tapping on her back to help clear her lungs so I think I might do that tomorrow. I'm feeling more and more hopeful for her every day, when she was first diagnosed I honestly thought she wasn't going to make it (the vet wasn't all that optimistic).

If she recovers well, I'll make her tank bioactive after a while so it's mostly self-sustaining and she won't have to deal with us that much - she was pretty skittish before and this whole experience hasn't exactly helped with that...

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

The food I had originally ordered for her (Fluker's Insectivore/Carnivore ReptaBoost) arrived today, even though it was scheduled for the 4th of January. It's good but I just ordered the Critical Care... I guess that'll be sitting on the shelf for if I ever need it.

Your early delivery is a welcome surprise, I bet.

May I ask why Critical Care instead of Carnivore Care? From what I know Critical Care is formulated for herbivores.

I hope that Eclair recovers 100%!

 

[majahawt]

Your early delivery is a welcome surprise, I bet.

May I ask why Critical Care instead of Carnivore Care? From what I know Critical Care is formulated for herbivores.

I hope that Eclair recovers 100%!

The only reason, really, was that the online reptile store I normally shop at only stocked Critical Care and I couldn't really see anywhere that it was specifically for herbivores? I maybe should've done my research a bit better... Oh well!

On a positive note: when I got up today, Eclair peeped out of her hide! I opened her tank a little to see how alert she was and she was immediately curious about what was going on. It's really excellent, because all she's done the past week is lay in her hide. Her poo is already looking better too, after just one dose of the parasite meds. Although it's a bit wet and goopy, it's not looking as green as it has previously!

 

[majahawt]

So I was trying to clean her face a little because she's got some old bug slurry on it and I was using a wet cloth and... She kept trying to bite it! So I was able to just use the cloth to get her to open her mouth the entire time. Just thought I'd post that here for anyone else having trouble with medication/assisted feeding. Note: the cloth has to be moist for some reason, once it started drying out, she stopped trying to bite it

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

So I was trying to clean her face a little because she's got some old bug slurry on it and I was using a wet cloth and... She kept trying to bite it! So I was able to just use the cloth to get her to open her mouth the entire time. Just thought I'd post that here for anyone else having trouble with medication/assisted feeding. Note: the cloth has to be moist for some reason, once it started drying out, she stopped trying to bite it

Thanks for sharing, Maja. Everything helps.

 

[majahawt]

Do you know if the parasite meds make their poo a bit weird?

She had her weekly dose last night and today she's done the weirdest poo I've ever seen... It looks slimy and like it's got a tiny wee pipe cleaner in it

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Do you know if the parasite meds make their poo a bit weird?

She had her weekly dose last night and today she's done the weirdest poo I've ever seen... It looks slimy and like it's got a tiny wee pipe cleaner in it

I don't know. Antibiotics can affect appetite.

 

[majahawt]

She's actually eaten twice in the past week, which is more than she's eaten on her own in the last 4 months! I think maybe the gross poos we're seeing is her pooping out all of the pinworms.

She was a bit dehydrated the other day so I tried giving her some electrolyte/vitamin solution but it seems like she still can't swallow that well - it was coming out of her nose again, even though I only gave her 3-5 drops (slowly). She got a bath yesterday instead, while I was cleaning her tank.

I think her breathing is looking better, she's not using all of her abdominal muscles to take breaths anymore and she sleeps with her head down :3 And the fact that she's eating is just amazing.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thanks for sharing, Maja. I hope that's what the gross poos are all about.

Good to hear that both Eclair's breathing and eating are improving. Keep it up.

 

[majahawt]

Here's a little update!

Yesterday was the last day of the antibiotics so we won't need to pester her with that every single day anymore, which I'm sure she'll appreciate :3 She's got one dose of parasite meds left that she'll get at the end of the week and after that she'll be medicine free! A little while after that, I'll bring her in to the vet along with a stool sample to make sure everything is ok. When I talked to them, they were kinda "well, if she's doing better, you don't really need to bring her back in" but she's been through so much that I'd rather be safe than sorry.

She's been eating her mealworms, between 5-15 every single day! She's gained two grams since I first took her to the vet so she's doing great. I'm hoping maybe she'll try some other foods soon but I'm just happy she's eating. I'd love to get her some silkworms but it's a bit too cold to ship them right now so maybe later.

I'm amazed with how well she's done, I honestly didn't expect her to recover so well - I was fully prepared to put her down if she was suffering.

 

[majahawt]

Eclair has gained another two grams (putting her at a nice 54 grams) and she's looking and feeling much better! Here are some photos of her doing lizard acrobatics

 

[muffin_song]

It always makes me so happy to see leos on the mend. Waving pom poms for Eclair! :cheer:

(Also, those are some great shots)