Meet my little one!

amsdadtodd

New member
ShiaLover44
Welcome to GU!
Perhaps you would be best off posting a new topic, rather than this thread. With that said, good luck with your gecko, I hope you've read through some posts here to know where to best get a gecko from, and where to avoid!
I see you're in Hanson, MA. There are a few of us within an hour or so of there, who can recommend stores when you're ready get one.

Good luck!
Todd
 

MissFrances

New member
I'll check on her later tonight just to make sure, I'm almost certain she was fine (I looked her over for a good 15-20 minutes and only started worrying once she left my sight!) and I've dampened the moss every day for the past ~3 days, made sure to make it extra damp last night! I'm certain enough not to want to wake her up and get her out of her hide again at least! Thanks so much for your help!

Are you getting a leopard gecko, Shialover? I'm in love already! I hope you show us some pics when you get them :)
 

MissFrances

New member
My suspicions were confirmed - feet are just pale! :) I've bought her a new hide, too, she is not in the least bit interested at the moment haha!
 

MissFrances

New member
I'm sorry to triple post, I don't know if it's allowed, but I'm super happy because not only have I seen her every night this week as soon as the lights go out, she stuck her head out of her hide to give me a lick today! I know it's a small thing but she hasn't done it yet, I was pleased that she was consistently putting up with my hand in the cage and not shying away from that. Super happy to get a snoot on my hand and a ick!

I was particularly worried that she wouldn't trust me because my dad, trying to be helpful and working on the questionable mammal-pet logic of 'handle them soon or they won't stand for it', decided a couple of times to pick her up after a couple of weeks before I had a chance to do the hand-in-cage stuff and earn her trust. Hopefully we're making progress!
 

MissFrances

New member
I'm being walked over now! Hand taming seems to be going very well, it seems she just wanted to go at her own pace!

I have a question about gut loading. I don't fully understand what it is. I feed my insects regularly and different veggies or fruits each time, is that correct? Am I meant to give them a variety of foods at once? The term as a whole confuses me :')
 

JessJohnson87

New member
I feed my roaches Adult Bearded Dragon pellets 24/7 and throw in collards the day before I'm going to feed for an extra calcium/vitamin boost, they also get the calcium fortified water crystals. My mealworms are in one of the 6qt plastic boxes on a bed of oats and some bearded dragon pellets, I throw in carrots, collards, kale and orange slices for moisture and extra vitamin boost (I'm also trying to breed them). That's essentially gut-loading, you feed them a high vitamin/calcium diet for 24 hours before you are going to feed them off to your lizard or you can feed it to them 24/7 but a dry diet is best for that and fresh foods as sort of a treat.

Gut-loading takes away the frequent dusting, you only have to do it once a week if you use separate vitamin and calcium supplements.

Congrats on the easy taming process. I know there are a couple of members who are still trying to get their leo to go anywhere near them.
 

CWilson13

New member
I'm being walked over now! Hand taming seems to be going very well, it seems she just wanted to go at her own pace!

I have a question about gut loading. I don't fully understand what it is. I feed my insects regularly and different veggies or fruits each time, is that correct? Am I meant to give them a variety of foods at once? The term as a whole confuses me :')

It really is a great feeling when they accept you isn't it?
Here is a link that helped me out immensely when I first got started. You can search any foods and find out the various nutritional values for it, things like carrots, greens, etc. By far the turnip and dandelion greens are the favorites of my dubia colony.

Foods List
 

MissFrances

New member
You throw all of that in altogether or one at a time, Jess? Eg carrots women day, oranges a few days later?That's really helpful, thank you! I've seen the bearded dragon pellets about, I can get hold of them easy!

Thank you! I'm really pleased, after three weeks of her barely leaving her hides, I didn't think it'd go as well as it has.
 

JessJohnson87

New member
It depends. I noticed my mealworms devour kale but pick at collards. My roaches were like flies on poop with oranges, pick at collards and carrots and detest kale. I usually put some sort of fresh food in twice a week. If you take a few out 24 hours ahead and put them in a separate container, you can put it all in at once (just make sure the wetter foods don't touch the dry because it could cause nasty mold).
 

amsdadtodd

New member
The strict definition of gut loading is to feed the feeders an enriched diet for only 48 hours before use. Some people even withhold food from the feeder insects for a few day before introducing them to the gut-loading diet. I believe most of us don't do that any more, and have opted to maintain feeders on the enriched diet all the time. The Adult Natural Bearded Dragon food which Jess mentioned is the staple diet many of us use for our feeders, and supplement with fresh greens or fruits as well as water crystals.

Todd
 

Elizabeth Freer

Well-known member
Click: http://www.geckodan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Pros-and-Cons-of-Mealworms.pdf


The Pros and Cons of Mealworms as a food for reptiles
By Dr. Danny Brown BVSc(Hons), BSC (Hons), MACVSc (Avian Health)

"For many reptile keepers, supplying a reliably available source of live food for their insectivorous reptiles is a challenge. This means that many rely on what is available with an expectation that it is also good nutritionally. Unfortunately that is not always the case. Mealworms are the larval stage of a beetle (Tenebrio molitor). Whilst availability and ease of culture are their major advantages, they fall very short in many ways.

The nutritional content of the average mealworm is as follows:
(find the chart in the link)

The primary issues to consider are the lower protein levels, higher fat and appalling Calcium:phosphorus ratios. Please note that from a Ca:p point of view, crickets are no award winners either, but at least they have some things going for them.

The ideal Ca:p ratio is 1:1.3. The reason we get so hung up on Ca:p ratios is that the body determines how much calcium it needs to absorb based on phosphorus levels in the blood. In a situation like we see in the mealworm, not only is very little calcium available, but the body is tricked into thinking it doesn’t need it by the gross imbalance of phosphorus.

There are ways that we can attempt to improve calcium levels, but we can’t reduce phosphorus levels. Dusting of the mealworms with calcium powder prior to feeding is not terribly efficient as the shiny exoskeleton does not hold a lot of it for any length of time.

Gut loading (or feeding calcium to the mealworm prior to feeding it to the animal) has its limitations. Primarily, the higher the calcium content of the “gut load”, the more unpalatable (and often metabolically toxic) it is to the mealworm. Secondly, the gut size of a mealworm is such that improvements are at best marginal.

How the mealworm is bred also has its issues.

FOOD %PROT %FAT Ca Phos Ca:p ratio

mealworm 20-22.3 12-14.9 133ppm 3345ppm 1:25
cricket 55.3 6 345ppm 4238ppm 1:12

Phytic acid or cereal phytates are concentrated in the aleurone layer of the seed coat of all cereal grains. This is third outermost layer of the seed coat (2nd is the testa, 1st is the pericarp). These three layers are what makes up the product we know as bran once processed. Cereal phytates have the property of being able to immobilise dietary calcium and magnesium i.e the phytates bind to calcium and magnesium and form insoluble complexes that are not readily absorbed. Calcium is therefore not removed from the reptiles body, BUT it is prevented from entering the reptiles body in the first place. When we consider that mealworms are very low in calcium in the first place it is safe to consider that virtually none of this will be available to the reptile if the mealworm also has a gutful of phytate rich cereal bran when it is fed to your reptiles. Not all cereal grains have the same level of phytates in their aleurone. The highest levels are found in oats, followed by barley, rye, wheat and lastly millets.

In order to feed our mealworms (and maggot cultures) on a substrate that has reduced phytate levels is to therefore prudent to use a cereal based product not made from the seed coat. Two products are recommended. Pollard (or wheat fines) are processed from the endosperm (the starchy central part of wheat) and therefore have significantly reduced phytate level. The disadvantage of pollard is that many manufacturers produce it very fine which makes it (in my hands) too “gluggy” for maggot substrate, BUT excellent for mealworms as it is easier to sieve. In addition, on a personal note, I do not suffer from hay fever when working with pollard, but I most certainly do with bran. Some manufacturers produce a coarse pollard which is excellent for both purposes. Mill Run is an alternative product which has a coarseness suitable for both maggots and mealworms. It is made up of coarser pollard with remnants of bran. I use it by preference as its texture is always ideal for maggots, it has about 6% more protein than bran (which is essential protein for use by the mealworms or maggots), and it doesn’t flare up my hay fever.

In addition to the calcium issues, the high fat content of mealworms has obvious disadvantages.

The tough exoskeleton of the mealworm can be difficult to digest and impactions of the gut from undigested mealworm skins is not uncommon. This can be partly alleviated by only feeding very small mealworms or by feeding “white” (freshly shed) mealworms.

My usual recommendation is that mealworms should comprise no more than 10% of the diet and that it is better to feed them smaller rather than larger."
 
Last edited:

MissFrances

New member
We're off to the vet for worming treatment tomorrow! And advice on getting her there? I have a plastic box I bought specifically for this purpose (and for cleaning her out, but later found out my dad has a heated propagator so we put her in there to keep her warm!) and figured I'd line the floor with tissue. My mum reckons she read it's a good idea to put a cardboard tube in for her to hide if she wants, and a hot water bottle wrapped in a towel under the box?

However, hopefully they'll be able to sex her for me too! Finally ;)

In terms of handling, she stood on my hand completely last night and stayed there until I started to lift it up :)
 

JessJohnson87

New member
Seems like you have the transport under control. I usually just used the heat in the car.

Congrats on the taming! I know some people struggle with handling their geckos, my crestie is none to thrilled about my hand being anywhere near him.
 

MissFrances

New member
My pollen filter's broken in my car so if I turn the heater on it blows disintegrated sponge into the air and wreaks havoc with my asthmatic lungs ;)

It's a long process! I stand there for anywhere between 15mins and half an hour before she even entertains the idea of coming out to me haha! Still, happy she's doing it at all, as you say. I also discovered today that she can and is using her cold hide I bought the other week (thought it was too small for her, apparently not!) and apparently my dad found her half way up her glass doors the other day "balancing on one foot", she seems to have quite the personality, I just haven't seen it yet ;)
 

MissFrances

New member
Thanks, Elizabeth! Had her first worming shot, back in 10 days for another. Had a bit of a calamity when she got home as she leapt from her transporting box about 3 ft onto the floor ): she looks okay, though. Nothing seems broken, she is moving around fine and climbing everything in her tank.

Vet struggled to sex her, I'm not thoroughly sure why- i think this particular vet said she'd never had to sex them except from removing eggs from them. However, I could see her from beneath and I couldnt see any bulge or pores at all so I think it's safe to say I have a female :)
 

amsdadtodd

New member
You're probably right in guessing the gender, she looks to be rather mature, enough so that male characteristics would not be hard to see!

Todd
 

MissFrances

New member
It was feeding night tonight, she's had two days with no food so I put a mealie in to see if she was interested (didn't know if she would after such a stressful day!) and she went for it so I dusted a few crickets and stuck them in her viv. She ate the first two fine, but the last three she was really weird with, basically licking them and nipping at them. I had to tong-feed her the last couple. Could the syringe for the deworming shot hurt her throat? Or anything to do with her fall?
 

amsdadtodd

New member
Depending on what you use to dust them, she may just not like the flavor. None of mine really do. I typically don't dust all the crickets or mealworms, I have found that when I do, they aren't all eaten.

Todd
 
Top