Swisswiss's terrarium

[swisswiss]

Vet followup

so just got back from the vet....

the good news is she doenst think its gout as the swelling isnt on the articulations, she suspects an old fracture that healed the way it did...this would make sense since we have all see then state of calypsos tail when I brought him home.....

so thats a HUGE weight off my chest!

the bad news is the swelling is probably here to stay..... but as long as it doesn't hurt him or impede him from properly hunting/eating im cool with that..... and who knows with time how the wound will evolve...

Roxanne on the other hand....I told her she hasnt eaten in three days, she touched her stomach and said there is a stool on the way but that she feels no impaction....so there again good news.... now roxanne isnt anorexic but she isnt "plump" either so she suggested force feeding her.....I personally think thats a terrible idea, but if push comes to shove I may just have to accept the idea....

she gave me this "laxative" oil...im suppose to put a couple drops on her food for the next week to help her stool...

age was impossible to determine but she thinks Calypso is a young male (as did we)...I asked her about the whole UVA/B story and she said it would not hurt to provide it and in fact recommended it.....

what else?.....I think thats pretty much it, Roxanne and Calypso were the show of the vet cabinet and I was asked to send them pics for their up coming website.... ^_^

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Good job ALL! Will you be sending their mug shots for the vet's website? :biggrin:

Roxanne on the other hand....I told her she hasnt eaten in three days, she touched her stomach and said there is a stool on the way but that she feels no impaction....so there again good news.... now roxanne isnt anorexic but she isnt "plump" either so she suggested force feeding her.....I personally think thats a terrible idea, but if push comes to shove I may just have to accept the idea....

she gave me this "laxative" oil...im suppose to put a couple drops on her food for the next week to help her stool...

How about placing a drop or two of the laxative oil on Roxanne's nose? Make sure she stays hydrated.

 

[swisswiss]

How about placing a drop or two of the laxative oil on Roxanne's nose? Make sure she stays hydrated.

thats what i was thinking.....

the vet said i should be dusting her food with calcium (without D3) every feeding and with d3+multivitamins twice a week....

 

[swisswiss]

and ya will be sending them pics

 

[swisswiss]

yyyaaassssss!!! roxanne just ate a nice soft white dubia covered in zoomeds D3 calcium....ppphhheeww!!!

if she is eating and crapping normally im not going to give her any medication.....

but now I need your folks help...

UVA/B yay or nay?....forget this question ill stick with nay....

calcium without D3 every feeding then multivitamins and calcium with D3 twice a week...yay or nay?

im leaning on just supplementing twice a week with d3

 

[JessJohnson87]

You can use UVB, if you choose to provide the light, you would just need to dust with plain calcium. [MENTION=46009]JIMI[/MENTION] uses UVB with her gecko, but she also has a 4ft long viv, he's also a giant.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

yyyaaassssss!!! roxanne just ate a nice soft white dubia covered in zoomeds D3 calcium....ppphhheeww!!!

if she is eating and crapping normally im not going to give her any medication.....

but now I need your folks help...

UVA/B yay or nay?....forget this question ill stick with nay....

calcium without D3 every feeding then multivitamins and calcium with D3 twice a week...yay or nay?

im leaning on just supplementing twice a week with d3

[MENTION=35490]cricket4u[/MENTION] uses UVB lighting for her leopard geckos. She keeps her leopard geckos in minimum 4 foot long enclosures with many hides to dodge excessive UVB rays if necessary. If you scroll through my Leopard Gecko Caresheet, you will find a succinct post listing what cricket4u actually uses. Maybe you or Jess can find it! ;-) Post 55 gives you several links regarding UVB lighting.

I hope that JIMI will stop by soon. Like Jess mentions JIMI uses UVB for her giant leo Theseus.

:yahoo: that your Zoo Med supplements arrived! Did you get Zoo Med's plain (no D3) Reptivite multivitamins too?

The weekly supplement schedule you have suggested is too much for any leo in good health! Both Zoo Med's no D3 Reptivite and Zoo Med's D3 Repti Calcium contain precipitated calcium carbonate.

Just lightly dust the insects and worms with any supplement. Just like dusting powdered sugar upon a cake. The frequency of the supplements highly depends upon the actual dry diet (with high calcium, low phosphorus veggies to the side) that you feed the feeders 24/7.

Have you thought about a dry diet for your feeders in addition to the veggies you've been using?

Hilde shares this
CALCIUM - excess:
"Excess calcium in the digestive tract can hinder absorption of Vitamin A and D (we won't worry about E & K here). MBD is often considered to be caused by a shortage of calcium, but can happen even though there is ample calcium available. If there's not enough Vit D available, either stored in the liver or absorbed via food/supplements, then there won't be enough calcium absorbed. If you suspect a calcium shortage, it's easy to increase the amount available by dusting more often, even to the point of 'icing' the bugs with calcium, all of which just puts more calcium into the intestines but allowing less and less Vitamin A & D to be absorbed.... a vicious circle. The result is a gecko with possible MBD (even if it's on calcium substrate and gets calcium supplement), and a severe shortage of Vitamin A & D.

And so it continues.... more calcium, less vitamin A & D."

 

[swisswiss]

thx for the info liz, its calcium with D3 so I realize if i go down the UV road ill have to get plain calcium.....the bearded dragon natural food arrived as well so im feeding that as dry food to my roaches and mealworms..... the multi vitamins have not arrived yet

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

• Use Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3 1x per week. Lightly dust it on half the crickets or dubia, not every one.
• Use plain (no D3) Zoo Med Reptivite lightly dusted on crickets or dubia every other week or 2x month. Maybe only half of them.
• Use some plain precipitated calcium carbonate (purer than oyster shell calcium)

As long as you feed the Zoo Med Natural Adult Bearded Dragon Food (or an equivalent good quality dry diet) 24/7 with high calcium, low phosphorus veggies off to the side, I suggest this schedule:

Monthly Schedule for Leos under 1 yo​

Week 1:
Crickets or dubia>Monday- D3 Repti Calcium
Crickets or duba>Tuesday
Mealworms>Wednesday
Crickets or dubia>Thursday- no dusting
Crickets or dubia>Friday
Mealworms>Saturday- plain calcium carbonate
No food or free choice>Sunday

Week 2:
Crickets or dubia>Monday- D3 Repti Calcium
Crickets or duba>Tuesday
Mealworms>Wednesday
Crickets or dubia>Thursday- plain (no D3) Reptivite
Crickets or dubia>Friday
Mealworms>Saturday- plain calcium carbonate
No food or free choice>Sunday

Week 3:
Crickets or dubia>Monday- D3 Repti Calcium
Crickets or duba>Tuesday
Mealworms>Wednesday
Crickets or dubia>Thursday- no dusting
Crickets or dubia>Friday
Mealworms>Saturday- plain calcium carbonate
No food or free choice>Sunday

Week 4:
Crickets or dubia>Monday- D3 Repti Calcium
Crickets or duba>Tuesday
Mealworms>Wednesday
Crickets or dubia>Thursday- plain (no D3) Reptivite
Crickets or dubia>Friday
Mealworms>Saturday- plain calcium carbonate
No food or free choice>Sunday

Week 5
Start the cycle over with week 1

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I'm about to amend the above feeding schedule. Sorry about that.

Based upon these measurements, both leos should be eating daily.

Calypso
7.8 inches (20 cm) total length
42 grams

Roxanne
6 inches (18 cm) total
23 grams

EDIT:
Did you buy plain CaCO3? Maybe health foods stores in Switzerland carry the NOW brand. We can get that in the USA. It's pure calcium carbonate for much less than the reptile containers.

Click: Amazon.com: NOW Foods Calcium Carbonate, 12 Ounces: Health & Personal Care

 

[swisswiss]

UPDATE: so its been what, 11 days that I have my two lovelies?.....though Calypso is getting better by the day (im actually surprised at his rate of recovery) Roxanne is still being a picky eater.....I fed her a single waxworm yesterday (dont kill me folks) it was more of a test to see if she would throw that up as well (the dubia I said she ate i found half digested the next morning) but it seems she did not regurgitate the wax worm...nor did she poop it for that matter..... but yeah she refuses to eat otherwise... and im starting to paranoi about internal parasites.... the few stools iv seen have been very mushy...so unless im "lucky" that im falling upon them just dropped there might be an issue there....

she is not losing weight though. i have not compared older photos, but her tail doesnt seem to be thinning out either...im at a loss... you'll find updated pictures of them both below (literally taken a few min ago)



in terms of supplements I have been lightly dusting with each feeding.... usually feed calypso a medium sized dubia and about 3 meal worms a day....Roxanne....what ever i can get in her to eat, but it hasn't been much as of late....

in fact today i squished a few meal worms powdered in supplements and gently scrapped some of the goo on her lips with an ear cleaner thing.... she liked it up but its obviously not ideal....Iv also caught her drinking directly out of the water bowl.....think thats pretty rare behavior to watch.....

anyway there you have it... could it be that since she threw up the dubia she is now "disgusted" or fearful of them?

P.s sorry for the cut on my hand

 

[JessJohnson87]

I would not say that she's fearful of them. There's definitely something going on for her to regurgitate them. I would save all poops you get from her and store them in a plastic bag WITHOUT paper towels or toilet tissue. You can take them in for a stool sample to test for parasites. Is Roxanne in the other enclosure? Sometimes inadequate belly heat can cause regurgitation and party digested insects and it's not at all strange for one to eat fine and the other to refuse food after 11 days of having them and changing around things with the tank. Calypso looks much better!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Are you feeding both daily? That is, trying to feed Roxanne daily too?

Are you lightly dusting ALL the feeders all the time?

When you feed the feeders a high quality dry diet 24/7 like Zoo Med's Natural Adult Bearded Dragon Food, your leos will get the majority of their nutrition directly from their diets. That is much better than even lightly dusting every bug and worm.

 

[swisswiss]

I usually dust the dubias and feed meal worms for "fun".... yes im trying to give daily feedings for the moments but I think ill slow down soon with calypso as he seems well fit now....

iv gotten yet another supplement called repashy calcium plus...supposedly its an all in one product I can use daily....

Roxanne is in the "old" 90cm terrarium while calypso was moved to the 60cm one....

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

#2---Fecal Sample Collection Procedure
My exotics vet recommends:

1. Place a piece of clean plastic where your leo usually poops. If your gecko poops somewhere else, take the poop to the vet anyway. Some poop is better than no poop!

2. As soon as your gecko has passed some poop and urates, but without physically touching the sample, place the feces and urates directly onto a clean plastic bottle cap. (Vet has fecal sample containers if you can stop by first.)

3. Then place the bottle cap with fecal sample directly into a plastic ziploc bag. (Do NOT use paper towels or newspaper because those will absorb some of the feces necessary for a proper culture.)

4. Refrigerate this sample...unless you are taking the sample to your vet immediately. Do NOT freeze it.

5. Keep the sample cool enroute to the vet.

6. Take this fecal sample to your vet within 24 hours of collecting...the sooner the better!


[There are two types of fecals: fecal float and direct smear tests. For geckos, ask the vet whether both tests should be run.]

 

[JessJohnson87]

I use Repashy and I love it. Yes it's formulated to be used with every feeding along with the normal gut-load you give to the insects. There's enough vitamins/calcium that they need and little risk of overdose.

 

[swisswiss]

so what do you reckon Jess and Liz? just lay low and observe for now? like i said she is steady at 23 grams but looking over old photos that tail seems to have lost a little of the "plump"........

 

[JessJohnson87]

I would keep trying food for a few days and if she keeps throwing up, then I would take poop in to the vet and have it checked. I forgot to mention that if they are full or the insect is too big, they can throw it up. I would hold off on food tonight and try her again tomorrow.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

so what do you reckon Jess and Liz? just lay low and observe for now? like i said she is steady at 23 grams but looking over old photos that tail seems to have lost a little of the "plump"........

Maybe she's stressed?
Try undusted freshly molted prey.
Collect a fecal sample.

 

[swisswiss]

Maybe she's stressed?
Try undusted freshly molted prey.
Collect a fecal sample.

I really hope its "just" stress