How's this diet plan?

[Sybilestial]

The Variety Diet
Sunday ------------ Crickets (dusted with D3), butterworms
Monday ------------ Dubia roaches, mealworms
Tuesday ------------ Hornworm, phoenix worms
Wednesday --------- Dubia roaches, mealworms
Thursday ----------- Crickets (dusted without D3), butterworms
Friday -------------- Hornworm, phoenix worms
Saturday ----------- Dubia roaches, mealworms

I'm wary on the crickets particularly; I work at a mom and pop pet store and deal with crickets 3-6 days a week. As such, I know they are very dirty bugs that can carry diseases. I'm not saying the crickets we get are unhealthy, it's just going through cleaning, seeing them in other stores, etc, that I don't really want to feed my gecko crickets very often. So I'm basically trying to get over dubia being, well, roaches, as they look much cleaner and have better values.

I want my gecko to have a yummy balanced diet with variety, but not sure how this would work. I'm also unsure of the average amount a Leo would eat. What do you guys think?

Also I'd be ordering from Rainbowmealworms.net

 

[Sybilestial]

Due to having to pay a little extra for her cage, I could not get the Dubis roaches or the butterworms.

I was able to order:
100 large mealworms
100 medium Phoenix worms
25 small hornworms (growing these guys out to the right size)
50 3/4 crickets

I have no idea if that's too much or not considering my Leo likes to eat every day vs once every other day. She eats about 5 or so a day. Hope she likes Phoenix worms and hornworms.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Due to having to pay a little extra for her cage, I could not get the Dubis roaches or the butterworms.

I was able to order:
100 large mealworms
100 medium Phoenix worms
25 small hornworms (growing these guys out to the right size)
50 3/4 crickets

I have no idea if that's too much or not considering my Leo likes to eat every day vs once every other day. She eats about 5 or so a day. Hope she likes Phoenix worms and hornworms.

Next time order the largest Phoenix worms. The biggest ones are only 3/4 inch long. If your leo does not like them, rinse them in a colander. Then let them walk around on a paper towel to dry, before trying again.

Hornworms grow huge nearly overnight!

• Click: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...es-/68585-hornworm-guidelines.html#post391397

Get a 6 quart Sterilite bin to breed your own mealworm culture from those you ordered.

• Click: Mealworm & Superworm Tips......acpart, Hilde, & swisswiss -- July 2017

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

The Variety Diet
Sunday ------------ Crickets (dusted with D3), butterworms
Monday ------------ Dubia roaches, mealworms
Tuesday ------------ Hornworm, phoenix worms
Wednesday --------- Dubia roaches, mealworms
Thursday ----------- Crickets (dusted without D3), butterworms
Friday -------------- Hornworm, phoenix worms
Saturday ----------- Dubia roaches, mealworms

Looks really good except multivitamins are missing.


EDIT:
See post 8 below.

 

[Sybilestial]

Next time order the largest Phoenix worms. The biggest ones are only 3/4 inch long. If your leo does not like them, rinse them in a colander. Then let them walk around on a paper towel to dry, before trying again.

Hornworms grow huge nearly overnight!

• Click: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...es-/68585-hornworm-guidelines.html#post391397

Get a 6 quart Sterilite bin to breed your own mealworm culture from those you ordered.

• Click: Mealworm & Superworm Tips......acpart, Hilde, & swisswiss -- July 2017

I'll be sure to do that next time since they didn't give me a measured size.

I purchased the hornworms that are as long as a penny so I make sure that I can grow them to the right size. Otherwise they will be in a cooler/fridge to keep their size.

Thanks for the info about the mealworms!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I'll be sure to do that next time since they didn't give me a measured size.

I purchased the hornworms that are as long as a penny so I make sure that I can grow them to the right size. Otherwise they will be in a cooler/fridge to keep their size.

Thanks for the info about the mealworms!

You're welcome.

What multivitamins are you using? Even with a huge variety of well-fed bugs and worms in their diets, geckos benefit from a wee bit of multivitamins @ 1 feeding per week.

Refrigerators are too cool for hornworms.

 

[Sybilestial]

All I've purchased so far is the Sticky Tongue Farm Indoor formula (with d3).. I will purchase multivitamins when I can.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

All I've purchased so far is the Sticky Tongue Farm Indoor formula (with d3).. I will purchase multivitamins when I can.

Sticky Tongue Farm's Miner-All Indoor formula (contains D3) has way too little vitamin D3 to be used @ only 1 feeding per week.

I have personally found the 22,907 IU/kg of D3 that's contained in my Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3 to be the bare minimum of D3 per week! That used @ only 1 feeding per week covers my geckos well. Vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin and does not need to be taken at every feeding.

Sticky Tongue Farm's Miner-All Indoor formula contains only 4,400 IU/kg of D3. That's about 1/5 the D3 that works for my geckos.

I cannot advise you about upping the Indoor formula at all. It would take using it @ 5 feedings per week to be equivalent to Zoo Med's D3 levels!

• Click: Gecko Multivitamins

Here's a recent thread about a leo beginning to develop MBD. The keeper was also using Miner-all Indoor.

• Click: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...s-/83632-gecko-calcium-deficiency-eating.html

 

[Sybilestial]

Alright. I had no idea how much calcium was even needed. What do I do with the supplement I have now then?

The Variety Diet REVISED
Sunday ------------ Crickets (dusted with Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3), butterworms
Monday ------------ Dubia roaches, mealworms
Tuesday ------------ Hornworm, phoenix worms
Wednesday --------- Dubia roaches, mealworms
Thursday ----------- Crickets (dusted with Zoo Med Reptivite multivitamins without D3), butterworms
Friday -------------- Hornworm, phoenix worms
Saturday ----------- Dubia roaches (dusted with calcium?), mealworms

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Alright. I had no idea how much calcium was even needed. What do I do with the supplement I have now then?

The Variety Diet REVISED
Sunday ------------ Crickets (dusted with Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3), butterworms
Monday ------------ Dubia roaches, mealworms
Tuesday ------------ Hornworm, phoenix worms
Wednesday --------- Dubia roaches, mealworms
Thursday ----------- Crickets (dusted with Zoo Med Reptivite multivitamins without D3), butterworms
Friday -------------- Hornworm, phoenix worms
Saturday ----------- Dubia roaches (dusted with calcium?), mealworms

That's much better! You might return the Miner-All stating it does not meet your leo's needs.

You say your leo is about 2 yo? Then she should be eating about 3x per week. As long as she's walking well, has no signs of MBD, and has strong bones, I recommend lightly dusting with Zoo Med's supplements @ 2 feedings per week.

Your Sunday and Thursday light dustings will cover her supplement needs.

Click: Why I use and highly recommend Zoo Med's Repti Calcium with D3 & Zoo Med's ReptiVite multivitamins without D3?

 

[Sybilestial]

Yes, she's about two, as what the previous owner told me. This girl eats every day. Should I not feed her every day? She only eats 2-5 worms or crickets per feeding regardless of size. I feel like she's not eating that much, like she's snacking or something. Hunts very well, too.

Yes, she walks just fine, no signs that I see of.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Yes, she's about two, as what the previous owner told me. This girl eats every day. Should I not feed her every day? She only eats 2-5 worms or crickets per feeding regardless of size. I feel like she's not eating that much, like she's snacking or something. Hunts very well, too.

Yes, she walks just fine, no signs that I see of.

Nice to hear she's eating and a good hunter!

Do her jaws line up? no under or over bite?

Can you share a photo of her?

Is she gaining weight? Bigger meals less often is what they probably do in the wild.

 

[Sybilestial]

Tweet A
Tweet B
It doesn't look like she has an over/underbite.

 

[Sybilestial]

I don't have a gram scale yet, but I don't notice a difference in her weight. She's not overzealous with eating like Ziggy, a YouTuber's leo. (Leopard Gecko is the username of the youtuber)

 

[Sybilestial]

Also what fruits/veggies/greens should I feed all the grubs so they remain happy, healthy, and chock full of nutrients? I also plan on gutloading them prior to feeding.

The hornworms come with their own food, so I'm not sure I should add to that or leave them be.

Can I dust the grub's food with the Sticky Tongue farm's miner-all indoor formula?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Also what fruits/veggies/greens should I feed all the grubs so they remain happy, healthy, and chock full of nutrients? I also plan on gutloading them prior to feeding.

The hornworms come with their own food, so I'm not sure I should add to that or leave them be.

Can I dust the grub's food with the Sticky Tongue farm's miner-all indoor formula?

Let the hornworms eat only their prepared diet.

I don't know whether it's a good idea to dust the grubs' food with Miner-All.

Here's a link to the USDA: https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list

High calcium, low phosphorus, greens like collard, mustard, turnip, and dandelion flowers/greens are excellent.

A healthy diet alone is not enough. Geckos need a wee bit of vitamin A acetate (retinol) or vitamin A palmitate to jump start beta carotene. Those forms of vitamin A aren't found in plants.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

#6---Gutload Ingredients for Bugs & Worms.....contributed by Olimpia -- August 2013

"Lettuce (except dark, leafy greens) is just water and nutritionally irrelevant. People don't even give lettuce to tortoises and iguanas because it's worthless as food. The same could be said for potatoes. Fish flakes are very high in protein and this can lead to a build-up of uric acid in feeders/reptiles and end up causing gout. A little now and then is fine but this should never be the bulk of any gutload.

"A commercial gutloading food like Bug Burger or Superload (both by Repashy), Cricket Crack, Dinofuel, etc. is going to make your life easier AND provide a nutritious diet to your crickets at the same time. Avoid Fluker's gutloads, as they are super feeble in their formulas.

"If you opt for making your own gutload at home, here is a list of great ingredients to use:
Best: mustard greens, turnip greens, dandelion leaves, collard greens, escarole lettuce, papaya, watercress, and alfalfa.
Good: sweet potato, carrots, oranges, mango, butternut squash, kale, apples, beet greens, blackberries, bok choy, and green beans.
Dry food: bee pollen, organic non-salted sunflower seeds, spirulina, dried seaweed, flax seed, and organic non-salted almonds.
Avoid as much as possible: potatoes, cabbage, iceberg lettuce, romaine lettuce, spinach, broccoli, tomatoes, corn, grains, beans, oats, bread, cereal, meat, eggs, dog food, cat food, fish food, canned or dead insects, vertebrates.

------>"As far as how to keep crickets, a large plastic storage container will work well, but really anything with smooth sides. On a large plastic container you can cut out a panel on two sides and glue on aluminum screening (and do the same on the lid) and this will provide plenty of air flow. Bad air is the #1 killer of crickets, along with poor hydration, so having good airflow will make the difference if you start getting into bulk orders of crickets.

------>"And I just dust mine using a large plastic cup. You don't need to coat crickets in a thick layer of calcium. Just put a pinch of calcium into the cup, get some crickets into the cup, swirl, and dump. The crickets end up evenly but lightly coated and there isn't any excess calcium left over."

"Hope that helps!"

(Last edited by Olimpia; 08-21-2013 at 02:03 PM.)

 

[Sybilestial]

#6---Gutload Ingredients for Bugs & Worms.....contributed by Olimpia -- August 2013

"Lettuce (except dark, leafy greens) is just water and nutritionally irrelevant. People don't even give lettuce to tortoises and iguanas because it's worthless as food. The same could be said for potatoes. Fish flakes are very high in protein and this can lead to a build-up of uric acid in feeders/reptiles and end up causing gout. A little now and then is fine but this should never be the bulk of any gutload.

"A commercial gutloading food like Bug Burger or Superload (both by Repashy), Cricket Crack, Dinofuel, etc. is going to make your life easier AND provide a nutritious diet to your crickets at the same time. Avoid Fluker's gutloads, as they are super feeble in their formulas.



------>"As far as how to keep crickets, a large plastic storage container will work well, but really anything with smooth sides. On a large plastic container you can cut out a panel on two sides and glue on aluminum screening (and do the same on the lid) and this will provide plenty of air flow. Bad air is the #1 killer of crickets, along with poor hydration, so having good airflow will make the difference if you start getting into bulk orders of crickets.

------>"And I just dust mine using a large plastic cup. You don't need to coat crickets in a thick layer of calcium. Just put a pinch of calcium into the cup, get some crickets into the cup, swirl, and dump. The crickets end up evenly but lightly coated and there isn't any excess calcium left over."

"Hope that helps!"

(Last edited by Olimpia; 08-21-2013 at 02:03 PM.)

I know it's easier, but I like the natural approach. Thank you so much for the info! Any thoughts about banana? Though I'd steer clear of avocado. It's very toxic to reptiles.

Hornworms already come with their own food, check!

I will always make sure to dust the crickets, Phoenix worms, butter worms, and roaches (if it sticks). I know the powder doesn't stick to mealworms

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Here's a link to "raw" bananas: https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/2159?manu=&fgcd=&ds=