Setting up an Exo Terra Large/Wide so many questions...

[WhereToBegin]

Hi everyone!

I just bought an Exo Terra Large/Wide(which I believe is equal to a 40 gallon breeder? 36Lx18wx18h) to move my big boy Hibiscus into. I'm planning on buying 3 more if I can work out the bumps my plan and make even 1 work. Here's what's up:

I'm not finding a lot of information regarding what I can use in a tank this size/shape as a UTH. Does anyone have any recommendations? I use heat tape for their 20 gallon tubs right now, but I've only found 6 inch heat tape(half the size I need) and 13 inch heat tape(which is an inch larger than I want). I also haven't found any pre-assembled UTH's that fit this size/shape of enclosure to my liking. I would also like to be able to attach the 4 UTH's together on the same cord, so a pre-assembled UTH is not really ideal.
I did the math and I could use 3 1' strips of 6" heat tape per enclosure, or 2 18" strips of 6" heat tape per enclosure, but something that wouldn't require as many wire's would be ideal I think. Would the extra inch of the 13 inch heat tape make a big difference or would it be fine?

Another concern I have is heating a multilevel enclosure. I was thinking I would put in heat lamps to ensure that even the raised parts of the enclosure are also warm on the warm side, but what size lamps would actually be appropriate for this size enclosure? I would prefer not to include these, as my Gecko's are all albino, but with 18" of vertical space I think ambient temperature is going to be more difficult to maintain in the winter. I've never used them before, as I've been able to maintain ambient temperatures easily in my current tubs since they are much shorter. I also have questions about the placement of the thermostat(s) if I'm using lights and UTH's, but I think I'll save that for later, since I'm still working on so many very basic things.

Aside from the heating, I'll be using tile as the substrate and I plan on building backdrops and including decorations that will provide some climbing space as well.

Sorry, I'm sure this is a mess to read through, I've never done more than paper towel, the 3 basic hides, and some basic decor. I'm super excited, but also definitely feeling a little overwhelmed with knowing where to start!

Thanks for any help!!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Two 8 x 18 inch Ultratherm heat mats placed side-by-side will work. Otherwise I suggest heat cables.

 

[WhereToBegin]

Thank you Elizabeth!

I ended up finding some Flex Watt heat tape that was the correct size, but I thought I should ask, since it's been a while since I've really looked into proper heating, is there a reason why you would suggest the mat and the cable instead of heat tape? Or was it just that those came to mind? I just want to know I won't be making a mistake by using heat tape. :?

Also, I was thinking a small CHE might help keep the ambient temperatures up during the winter instead of a UV bulb.

After posting I did some more research and found Bioactive Terrariums which have really caught my eye. My ultimate goal is to provide as much enrichment as I can for my lizards, and this seems like it could be the best way to go. So, for those of you who have used bioactive substrates or even who just have planted terrariums, how do you personally heat your enclosures? I've read and heard that a lot of people provide surface heat, and stick the UTH's on the sides of the enclosures, but that sounds like it wouldn't provide the belly heat gradient needed at all??

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thank you Elizabeth!
......

After posting I did some more research and found Bioactive Terrariums which have really caught my eye. My ultimate goal is to provide as much enrichment as I can for my lizards, and this seems like it could be the best way to go. So, for those of you who have used bioactive substrates or even who just have planted terrariums, how do you personally heat your enclosures? I've read and heard that a lot of people provide surface heat, and stick the UTH's on the sides of the enclosures, but that sounds like it wouldn't provide the belly heat gradient needed at all??

You're welcome. It's important to have 1/2 the entire floor covered from side-to-side, not less. It's up to you whether to use a heat mat, heat cables, or heat tape.

A CHE is the best overhead heat source. A CHE can provide enough heat from above for a leo's belly heat. Use a dome fixture that's as large as possible for overhead heat. For example, use a 10 inch diameter dome fixture right above a 30 x 12 inch screen top. Any colored bulb used during the night including white light disturbs a leo's natural rhythms. Leopard geckos CAN see color.

Heat mats mounted on the side of an enclosure aren't effective at all. Remember, heat rises.

Informative links:

• Zoo Med Excavator Clay Custom Build......swisswiss (Jeff) -- 27 Jan 2016
  Click: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...wisss-terrarium.html?highlight=excavator+clay
• Click: NEHERP - Vivarium Construction 101 - The most complete vivarium building articles online!

 

[WhereToBegin]

I had definitely thought it was supposed to be 1/3 of the tank needed to be covered by the heat mat! Does it depend on the size of the tank or is this just one of the things that have changed with time?

I'm actually so happy to hear that about the CHE since I was considering having to use the CHE's and UTH's together to create appropriate air and belly heat. My concern's with just using the CHE then would be the CHE's ability to create heat inside of the hides, since this is where the gecko's will be spending most of their day, and where to place the thermostat probe since I wouldn't want it to get over 90 outside of the hide?

 

[GeckoFanboy]

I had definitely thought it was supposed to be 1/3 of the tank needed to be covered by the heat mat!

I'm on the fence with this myself, as there does seem to be more folks preferring the 1/3 heat mat coverage, and I do believe even ZooMed's pad sizes are recommended for tank sizes that would put the pad at about 1/3 coverage. Apparently geckos are thriving under both setups, LOL, as many folks on both sides of the fence are saying their geckos do great under 1/2 or 1/3 UTH coverage. I think it also has alot to do with the room you put your gecko in. Is it a cool room...or a fairly warm room?? I also think, regardless, the gecko is going to roam to the part of the tank he feels most comfortable in.

It's just like...there are folks who say your gecko should spend most of his time in his warm hide...his moist hide...his cool hide. LOL, I've heard all three from major online breeders. I guess the only way to find out is to experiment and see what setup your gecko best reacts to and go from there. As long as my gecko is happy, healthy, and eating and pooping normally, he can sleep or sit wherever he wants in his tank.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

One reason a leo spends much time in the warm hide is because he's hugging the heat mat. If the floor is warm enough throughout more of his home, he'll be more active and out and about more. That also shows he's comfortable when he explores.

• How often is your leo out of his warm hide?
• How often do you see your leo in his cool hide?

If one uses a 1/3 heat mat coverage, then only 1/3 the floor is warm. The rest is room temperature. The heat drops off a couple inches above that mat and quite close to the mat lengthwise. To improve that situation 1/2 the floor is ideal. For an Exo Terra Large Low (36 x 18 x 12) one could even heat more than 1/2 the floor!

I've been recommending that heat mats be 1/2 the floor since ~ 2013. Many GU leo keepers have done this. Their leos are happy.

Photoperiod lighting is also a factor on how active a leo is.

 

[Keith]

I'm on the fence with this myself, as there does seem to be more folks preferring the 1/3 heat mat coverage, and I do believe even ZooMed's pad sizes are recommended for tank sizes that would put the pad at about 1/3 coverage. Apparently geckos are thriving under both setups, LOL, as many folks on both sides of the fence are saying their geckos do great under 1/2 or 1/3 UTH coverage. I think it also has alot to do with the room you put your gecko in. Is it a cool room...or a fairly warm room?? I also think, regardless, the gecko is going to roam to the part of the tank he feels most comfortable in.

It's just like...there are folks who say your gecko should spend most of his time in his warm hide...his moist hide...his cool hide. LOL, I've heard all three from major online breeders. I guess the only way to find out is to experiment and see what setup your gecko best reacts to and go from there. As long as my gecko is happy, healthy, and eating and pooping normally, he can sleep or sit wherever he wants in his tank.

I avoided the entire issue by covering the underside of my Vivarium 100%. Then, I have a Herpstat 2 that controlls each side independently. No issues so far.

 

[GeckoFanboy]

That can work too. I have my gecko in a room that has a fairly stable temp, as I myself like a house that is 73°, and maybe a tad cooler during summer. I think if the cool end of the tank started noticeably dropping into the 60's I too would buy another mat, but for now I don't think it would ever turn on. I have the opposite issue...the tank being warm...and it's not lighting or pads, it's just the room he's in...the sun beams down on that side of the house all day.

 

[WhereToBegin]

Most of my Leo's are fairly "social" so they feel comfortable sleeping outside of their hides and do it quite frequently, so I've made sure they can spread out on the heat mat or off of it outside of their hides as well. But I do wonder if it'll encourage them to be more curious? They definitely do hug the heat mat. So if it got them moving that would be great!

From what I'm reading I should use a 150 watt CHE, but I don't know if that'll work for my tank with the domes available as they'll put it closer to 20" from the Gecko's enclosure? :? Also I'm not seeing any review's on them aside from "Didn't fry my pet," "Works with thermostat," which is kind of... Uh.. That's the rock bottom requirement. :roll: Does anyone have any experiences with the bulbs or recommend any brands or specific bulbs? Does a 150 watt sound right? Or should I go with a 250 watt? Also is a cage clamp better, or a dome? I'd kind of explore this on my own if they weren't so expensive. I don't want to make another mistake. haha

Also, last time I think I actually looked at heating critically was in 2010 when I got my first Leo! :yikes: I just assumed through time that it was always that way. A reminder to myself that exotic husbandry will change as we learn more about our animals! :biggrin:

 

[GeckoFanboy]

What size is your tank? 150 watts sounds like overkill to me...then again, I have a 10 gallon tank and only use a 60 watt CHE bulb, which is more than enough for that size tank.

 

[WhereToBegin]

I have a 40 gallon breeder. The tank itself is 18" tall, so the CHE is going to end up pretty far up unfortunately.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

I have a 40 gallon breeder. The tank itself is 18" tall, so the CHE is going to end up pretty far up unfortunately.

40 gallon breeder = 36 x 18 x 17 inches Usually the wider the dome fixture the better! I use 10 inch diameter domes, not the 10 inch tall deep domes. They spread out heat better.

Part of this is trial and error. Many places let you exchange products if your purchase does not work for your pets.

Will you be placing the CHE right above the screen? If so, make sure the bulb and screen do not touch. If they touch the screen may melt. All Living Things (PetSmart) ceramic heat emitters are good. I had poor luck with Exo Terra CHEs. One Exo Terra CHE did not work at all and the other scarcely put out any heat.

I recommend a thermostat for your CHE to lessen any mishaps.


PS:
Tweak the air heat to be no greater than 82ish F (27.8ish C) air temperature - 4 inches above ground on the warm end

 

[WhereToBegin]

The Exo Terra 40 Gallon Breeders(what I have) are actually 36 x 18 x 18(they have a 36 x 18 x 12 option as well, but this isn't what I have), and the screen top does have a weird plastic piece that sections off the screen into 6 pieces. I hadn't intended on having the CHE touch the screen and I was thinking about placing the fixture an inch or two above the screen, but I'm realizing that it may melt the plastic parts regardless of if it's actually touching or not or even just heat unevenly because of the plastic blocking the heat from radiating past it. Maybe I should just remove the screens entirely for the CHE's? :scratchhead:

That's great to know about the Exo Terra CHE's, since I was checking them out. Do you recommend a dome fixture? A lot of people and manufacturers are saying you need a wire fixture, but that sounds like it would waste heat very easily from the sides!

Is there a way to control the heat on the ground vs the heat in the air with a CHE?? Because the ground heat should be between 90 and 80 right? Would 80 be enough for the ground heat(my leo's perk up when their heat is higher, so that would be preferable in my situation)? Would making a raised basking spot or area(so it's closer to the CHE so it would be warmer) be the best way to get the range of temperatures I'd like?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

"The Exo Terra 40 Gallon Breeders(what I have) are actually 36 x 18 x 18(they have a 36 x 18 x 12 option as well, but this isn't what I have), and the screen top does have a weird plastic piece that sections off the screen into 6 pieces. I hadn't intended on having the CHE touch the screen and I was thinking about placing the fixture an inch or two above the screen, but I'm realizing that it may melt the plastic parts regardless of if it's actually touching or not or even just heat unevenly because of the plastic blocking the heat from radiating past it. Maybe I should just remove the screens entirely for the CHE's? :scratchhead:

That's great to know about the Exo Terra CHE's, since I was checking them out. Do you recommend a dome fixture? A lot of people and manufacturers are saying you need a wire fixture, but that sounds like it would waste heat very easily from the sides!"

Don't remove the screen top screens!

The dome fixture can rest on the screen top as long as the bulb doesn't touch the screen. All mine do. Would 10 inch diameter clamp lamps work? If so, get those. Fluker's 8.5 diameter clamp lamps may be manufactured with dimmer/rheostat switches. Those may work. The clamp is removable. I know they come with On/Off switches.

CHEs provide accessory heat to warm the air.

Those wire heat bulb "cages" are not very heat effective, just like you mention.

"Is there a way to control the heat on the ground vs the heat in the air with a CHE?? Because the ground heat should be between 90 and 80 right? Would 80 be enough for the ground heat(my leo's perk up when their heat is higher, so that would be preferable in my situation)? Would making a raised basking spot or area(so it's closer to the CHE so it would be warmer) be the best way to get the range of temperatures I'd like?"

Please note the necessary leo temps below. Your ground temps seem too low. Leos mostly depend upon belly heat to digest their prey. It's important to know exactly what you're providing. I recommend a yellow Zoo Med's digital thermometer with a probe. The probe can measure air or ground temperature. Some keepers like temp guns.

To control air heat from the CHE and ground head from the heat strips/heat mat you'll need 2 separate thermostats since both are set for different temperatures.

/\ Replies between the lines in blue.

Leo need 88-92*F consistently underneath their warm dry hide.

The best way to get ideal ground temperatures is to use a large enough, side-to-side heat mat, heat strips, or heat cables that cover 1/2 the ground entirely -- not less.

Temperatures - A temperature gradient from warm to cool maintains your leo's health. Here's a temperature guide for all leopard geckos as measured with the probe of a digital thermometer or a temp gun (and controlled by a thermostat set at 91*F/32.8*C):

• 88-92 F (31.1-33.3 C) ground temperature right underneath a leo's warm dry hide
• no greater than 82ish F (27.8ish C) air temperature - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
• no greater than 75 F (23.9 C) air temperature - 4 inches above ground on the cool end

Inkbird Thermostats: Inkbird manufactures 2 similar models that only control HEAT (no cooling). Both are rated to 1,200 watts. Both models have 2 sockets for controlling two separate heat mats or two separate CHE dome fixtures set at the same temperature. Each model has only 1 probe.

18 April 2018: Savannah shares: "Now is there an attachment you can buy where another probe plugs in."

Model #1: INK306T

• 
  Click: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DZ5NVBQ/ref=s9_dcacsd_dcoop_bw_c_x_4_w
  

Model #2: Inkbird ITC-306T

• 
  Click: https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-Elec...=UTF8&qid=1490861330&sr=8-1&keywords=itc-306t
• Inkbird's ITC-306T Digital 2-Outlet Heat Temperature Controller/thermostat has a built-in ultra-capacitor. When the ultra-capacitor is fully charged, this thermostat will work for more than 20 days without electricity.
• blondebrown coat states: "I love it! It keeps very true temps, has a max/min customizable threshold, day and night temp settings, and an alarm if temps get out of whack."

 

[WhereToBegin]

Okay, I'll definitely give it a try with the screen. Is there a reason I shouldn't remove it?

I feel like there was a misunderstanding with temps. I have a thermostat(though that Inkbird looks super nice!) and my geckos are kept at 90°F, but I'm asking how with just a CHE I can provide belly heat and keep the air at only 82°F?