Newbie with ALL the questions

[desert_rat]

Hi guys,

So I'm a newbie/not-so-newbie. In highschool I had a friend who went to college and needed to rehome her adult leopard gecko. She came armed with all the goods, and I never questioned any of it. My gecko lived a happy and healthy life until it came time for me to also go to college (couldn't have a gecko in the dorms) and she was rehomed again where she lived another 4 happy years.

Here I am 8 years later and I wanted another gecko! So here I am, me and my cold blooded little buddy, a week in, and I'm realizing I really am not as confident in my abilities to provide him a habitat as I thought I was.

I've done a lot of research but there are SO many controversial topics and so I'm here to try and get some clarification. I'll give you some info on what I've got going:


1. My gecko (he's a little bitty guy right now, couple/few months old) is in a 10 gallon terrarium currently. I plan to expand when he grows. Substrate is the Exo-Terra Sand Mat. The first gecko I had used a sand substrate and never had an issue, and since that's their natural substrate in the wild it only makes sense, but I decided to heed the warnings of sand impaction and went with this mat.

2. I do have two hides - one warm, one cool and moist (using spaghum moss). I have a heat pad under the warm side of the habitat/hide.

3. This is where things got confusing for me. Additional heat/lighting, specifically with UVB. This is what I HAVE:

An incandescent 75W light - it gives off some heat, mostly just using it for photoperiod purposes. However, the habitat still has been too cool - he leaves his hide to explore but seems to quickly return to the heat pad. So I have recently added a ceramic heat emitter, and it's keeping the habitat much warmer (warm side stays about 90, cool side is about 82).

I didn't get a UVB light because from what I've read, they don't use it very much since they're crepuscular The set up I have now seems to be doing the job, but will UVB increase my gecko's quality of life? Or is incandescent light and the ceramic emitter and heat pad doing enough? So long as I'm maintaining photoperiod and adequate temps?

I AM using Reptivite with D3 on food (crickets and mealworms, though he hasn't shown any interest in the crickets yet), but I just need some assurance that that's enough! I'm not confident that synthetic supplementation is as good as the real thing - as what they evolved with. Should I switch to a UVB light? And if so, what wattage is recommended for a leo?

I know this is all kind of a jumbled mess, I just want to make sure I'm doing what's best! Thanks in advance.

 

[Geecko123]

your cool side should be about 72-74, is yor moist hide on the warm side or cool side? if you could also post a pic of your enclosure it would help A LOT, ( also this is not needed but I would love to see a pic of your leo ):biggrin:

 

[acpart]

Welcome! Since being in a small enclosure without access to the variety of feeders and other stuff in the environment isn't very natural, I'm comfortable using the synthetic supplements. I don't worry too much about the ambient temperature as long as it's comfortable for humans. If it's too cold, the gecko can and will spend more time in the hide. Juveniles tend to spend most of their time there even if it is warmer. The one thing to be aware of with the additional heat is not to dehydrate the gecko by making the air too hot and dry. Enjoy your gecko.

Aliza

 

[desert_rat]

Moist hide is on the cool side, to help prevent evaporation. I as of yet don't have a thermostat with a probe, I have a rheostat in the mail right now that I will hook up to the CHE that will double as the warm hide thermostat.

Below is a picture of my set up. Warm side on the left, cool side on the right.




Since I posted this yesterday, I had to go to PetCo for chews for my dogs and I went ahead and picked up a ReptiSun 10.0 UVB light. And actually I've seen him bathing in it twice already, once this morning, which I've heard some are wont to do. He's actually active first thing in the morning after I turn his light on.





Aliza, thank you for your comments! As I said, I decided to try the UVB, also because I like having the plants in the habitat (they are all gecko-approved, I promise!), and I like the response (even if it's coincidental) that I've seen from him already. I appreciate you saying you don't worry too much about ambient temperature, because everything I've been reading is SO finicky about temperature and has me all anxious about it lol. The humidity has been staying around 20-30% which I think is about right?


EDIT: I don't know why the pictures are so tiny, I'd fix it if I could! Sorry about that.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi ~

1. What dimensions is his heat mat? Most heat should be belly heat.
2. Are these air temps or ground temps: "warm side stays about 90, cool side is about 82"?
3. Zoo Med's Reptivite D3 is an excellent supplement. My vet says to use it ONLY lightly @ 1 feeding per week. Please get Zoo Med's Repti Calcium without D3 for 2 other feedings per week. See Schedule 124 below.
4. The humid hide goes on the warm end. The warmth generates humidity to keep your leo hydrated and to assist with shedding. A cool damp leo will be prone to respiratory tract infections.
5. Please remove the 10.0 UVB.
6. Decent ambient humidity in a leo enclosure ranges from 40-60%.
7. When you click on the pics, they get a little bigger.

A ReptiSun 10.0 UVB is way too strong for a 10 gallon setup! Wait until you have a much larger enclosure to provide UVB.

A leo needs ground temps underneath the warm dry hide between 88-92* F. If those temps aren't met, that's one reason why a leo might not eat. Many round (analog) thermometers aren't very accurate.

Temperatures - A temperature gradient from warm to cool maintains your leo's health. Here's a temperature guide for all leopard geckos as measured with the probe of a digital thermometer or a temp gun (and controlled by a thermostat set at 91*F/32.8*C):

• 88-92 F (31.1-33.3 C) ground temperature right underneath a leo's warm dry hide
• no greater than 82ish F (27.8ish C) air temperature - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
• no greater than 75 F (23.9 C) air temperature - 4 inches above ground on the cool end

Leave the heat mat/UTH on 24/7. At night turn off overhead lighting/heating (~12 hours on and ~12 hours off) unless ambient room temperatures drop lower than 67ish*F (19.4*C).

Weekly Schedule 124 for Leopard Geckos 0-12 months old
(without UVB)
Adapted for your leo​

• Crickets or dubia >> Monday - lightly dusted with Zoo Med Reptivite multivitamins
  with D3
• Mealworms >> Tuesday
• Crickets or dubia >> Wednesday - lightly dusted with pure precipitated calcium carbonate (Zoo Med's Repti Calcium or NOW human brand calcium) without D3
• Crickets or dubia >> Thursday
• Crickets or dubia >> Friday - lightly dusted with pure precipitated calcium carbonate (Zoo Med's Repti Calcium or NOW human brand calcium) without D3
• Mealworms >> Saturday
• No food or free choice >> Sunday

 

[desert_rat]

Thanks so much for your response!

So should I have the humid warm hide, and one dry cool hide? I have it backwards, is what you're saying? I can just move the moist sphagnum moss to the current warm hide, he loves it in there. I was just worried about the UTH evaporating the moisture too quickly.

I appreciate your UVB feedback. I still don't understand the negativity towards UVB from the leopard gecko community, especially if they have plenty of places to hide from it if they want to? I've heard of absolutely no negative effects of UVB, but I can understand 10.0 being too strong. Would a 5.0 be more preferable? Or wait until I expand entirely?

It's definitely warm enough in there, I'm very sure of that, but again, the rheostat/thermostat with probe is on its way and then I can be sure!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Thanks so much for your response!

So should I have the humid warm hide, and one dry cool hide? I have it backwards, is what you're saying? I can just move the moist sphagnum moss to the current warm hide, he loves it in there. I was just worried about the UTH evaporating the moisture too quickly.

I appreciate your UVB feedback. I still don't understand the negativity towards UVB from the leopard gecko community, especially if they have plenty of places to hide from it if they want to? I've heard of absolutely no negative effects of UVB, but I can understand 10.0 being too strong. Would a 5.0 be more preferable? Or wait until I expand entirely?

It's definitely warm enough in there, I'm very sure of that, but again, the rheostat/thermostat with probe is on its way and then I can be sure!

You are welcome.

Please answer the questions I asked above. I was editing while you posted.

Actually a leo should have 3 hides: warm dry, warm humid, and cool dry. Within a 10 gallon it's difficult to fit everything in. It's typical for humid hides to dry out quickly. Here's a humid hide you could make.

​

UVB is appropriate for leo enclosures about 3 feet long. There needs to be ample hides and places for a leo to dodge the rays. It's also important for a UVB to be provided on the warm end for best practices.

You're on the right tract choosing Zoo Med's ReptiSun lighting. Just wait till you've got a 3 foot long enclosure.

Please put one of your analog thermometers under the warm dry hide. What does it read?

 

[desert_rat]

To answer your questions:

What dimensions is his heat mat? Most heat should be belly heat.
Good question. Lol I got the one that was sized for a 10 gallon tank; it seems to cover about 1/4 to 1/3 of the tank?

Are these air temps or ground temps: "warm side stays about 90, cool side is about 82"?
These are air temps but I had the heat source too close to the gauges when I said that. I have since corrected it, and the temp gauges are about 3-4 inches from the ground, on the respective sides of the cages. Warm side, ambient, is about 85 (again, need the rheostat to make this consistent with the CHE), and the cool side is about 75. Again, ambient air temps. I will do as you suggested and put one in the warm hide and record that temp.

Zoo Med's Reptivite D3 is an excellent supplement. My vet says to use it ONLY lightly @ 1 feeding per week. Please get Zoo Med's Repti Calcium without D3 for 2 other feedings per week. See Schedule 124 below.
The one without D3 is in the mail with the rheostat! My local pet store didn't have it in stock.

The humid hide goes on the warm end. The warmth generates humidity to keep your leo hydrated and to assist with shedding. A cool damp leo will be prone to respiratory tract infections.
I will add damp moss to the current warm hide. There IS room, as small as he is right now, to add a warm dry hide for the third you recommended, if it's a small hide, so I will do that. I do plan to expand the habitat as he grows.

Please remove the 10.0 UVB.
I literally returned it over lunch. Your explanation about size of the habitat makes sense! I'll go to a 2.0 or 5.0 UVB when I am able to give him a bigger home.

Decent ambient humidity in a leo enclosure ranges from 40-60%.
They're desert animals though? My understanding was for it to be, in the entire tank, under 40, with the humid hides for them to get more humidity if needed?



You're really being so helpful, thank you!

 

[Sg612]

Moist hide is on the cool side, to help prevent evaporation. I as of yet don't have a thermostat with a probe, I have a rheostat in the mail right now that I will hook up to the CHE that will double as the warm hide thermostat.

Below is a picture of my set up. Warm side on the left, cool side on the right.


View attachment 46888

Since I posted this yesterday, I had to go to PetCo for chews for my dogs and I went ahead and picked up a ReptiSun 10.0 UVB light. And actually I've seen him bathing in it twice already, once this morning, which I've heard some are wont to do. He's actually active first thing in the morning after I turn his light on.

View attachment 46889

View attachment 46886

Aliza, thank you for your comments! As I said, I decided to try the UVB, also because I like having the plants in the habitat (they are all gecko-approved, I promise!), and I like the response (even if it's coincidental) that I've seen from him already. I appreciate you saying you don't worry too much about ambient temperature, because everything I've been reading is SO finicky about temperature and has me all anxious about it lol. The humidity has been staying around 20-30% which I think is about right?


EDIT: I don't know why the pictures are so tiny, I'd fix it if I could! Sorry about that.

The humidity has been staying around 20-30% which I think is about right?

A bit too dry. Between 40-60% would be best.

 

[Sg612]

Did he start basking after you placed the UVB bulb or before? If he started basking after, he may be low on vitamin D and I don’t think you should remove it until he starts eating. Instead, control how long it’s on (perhaps 3 hours a day)because it’s in a tight space. How long was he basking for?

 

[desert_rat]

I DID remove it, as I agree that it was probably much too strong for that habitat at 10.0, and they did not have a 5.0 or 2.0 that I saw. I can go back and double check. I just ordered a 5.0 reptisun on Amazon and it will be here Saturday.

I'm not sure, he comes out about 20-30 minutes after I turn on the light, and I was leaving for work. So he was basking when I left. Crawled up on a branch to do so. So, I agree, he is probably deficient now that you say it. Would it just make things much worse for me to try to forcep feed him some dusted worms? I spoke with the reptile associates at PetCo (I know, I know, not the best place to get any animal), and they actually seem very competent here, all have multiple reptiles, and they said that they seem to go ham during feeding time but there are always some that are sleeping and therefore they can't ascertain that EVERY leo was eating well in the tank. He's in the same condition his compadres were so I'm assuming he was eating.

 

[desert_rat]

Update on the hides: there are now three. I took the damp moss out of the cool hide and put it in a small mouth Mason jar and put a sock over it for more privacy. It's sitting over the UTH. Do you think that'll work? Put out fresh meal worms with zoomed calcium with D3 lightly dusted on them. I'm hoping he'll eat soon!

 

[Sg612]

Update on the hides: there are now three. I took the damp moss out of the cool hide and put it in a small mouth Mason jar and put a sock over it for more privacy. It's sitting over the UTH. Do you think that'll work? Put out fresh meal worms with zoomed calcium with D3 lightly dusted on them. I'm hoping he'll eat soon!

View attachment 46899

Do not force anything in his mouth as this can cause serious health problems if he’s even a little dehydrated. Work on making all the corrections possible to see if he starts eating. He basked under the UVB for a reason and so put in back on tomorrow morning for 3 hours. Even at a high strength it will not cause damage unless it’s on all day, every day and over time. I’m hoping he will at least start using his humidity hide which will help with hydration. There’s unfortunately only so much time in the day, so I haven’t had a chance to read all the posts carefully. But, I will by tomorrow noon. If anything comes to mind I’ll let you know. What type of thermometer are you reading the temps with?

 

[desert_rat]

. He basked under the UVB for a reason and so put in back on tomorrow morning for 3 hours. Even at a high strength it will not cause damage unless it’s on all day, every day and over time.

What type of thermometer are you reading the temps with?

Unfortunately, I am leaving tomorrow for work around 6 am and won't be back until 4 or 5 in the evening. This is not uncommon, so I am getting a timer for lights soon, I just haven't as of yet, as I didn't anticipate this issue. I don't wanna cook the little guy! I'll definitely start this regimen Saturday, and I will invest in a timer when I get off of work tomorrow.

I just have regular old analog thermostats right now. I know those aren't preferred. Again, with my previous leo, I didn't have any of these issues and just inherited the habitat from her previous owner, so I didn't have ANY of this equipment. Rheostat for CHE with probe is on its way in the mail. (I live in a very small town with very limited resources.) As such, I'm relying on ambient temperatures 3-4 inches above ground right now.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Please put one of your analog thermometers under the warm dry hide. What does it read?

I wonder whether the behavior we're seeing is heat-related.

• A mini-heat mat = 4 x 5 inches.
• Next size up = 6 x 8 inches.

A CHE really needs a thermostat. Rheostats won't turn off the device if the temperature rises.

 

[desert_rat]

Please put one of your analog thermometers under the warm dry hide. What does it read?

I wonder whether the behavior we're seeing is heat-related.

• A mini-heat mat = 4 x 5 inches.
• Next size up = 6 x 8 inches.

A CHE really needs a thermostat. Rheostats won't turn off the device if the temperature rises.

Temperature in the warm dry hide is 96. Much too warm huh? The funny thing is, he doesn't move to the cool side of the tank... If the rheostat doesn't do what I want it to I can get a thermostat. Maybe the CHE isn't needed at all and I just thought it was. I came home just now from work and he is in the moist warm hide I made, so thank you for that recommendation. I cannot test the temp in there without really severely disturbing him. Also I have humidity up to 40 now.

UTH is the 6x8 I'm pretty sure. Definitely isn't the mini size.

He still has not eaten.

 

[desert_rat]

I'm removing the CHE altogether until I get a thermostat set up. The air temps of ~70 seemed too cool but evidently I'm highly underestimating the heat of the UTH. You'd think if it was too hot in there, that he would have went to the cooler hide?

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Temperature in the warm dry hide is 96. Much too warm huh? The funny thing is, he doesn't move to the cool side of the tank... If the rheostat doesn't do what I want it to I can get a thermostat. Maybe the CHE isn't needed at all and I just thought it was. I came home just now from work and he is in the moist warm hide I made, so thank you for that recommendation. I cannot test the temp in there without really severely disturbing him. Also I have humidity up to 40 now.

UTH is the 6x8 I'm pretty sure. Definitely isn't the mini size.

He still has not eaten.

Your sock-covered Mason jar makes a great humid hide that fits.

Your leo's warm hide is too hot! Until his habitat specs are stable and appropriate he probably won't eat. I'm glad you removed the CHE. Overhead heating is usually overkill for a 10 gallon.

Does this chart make sense? Temps underneath the warm dry hide right on top of the substrate should measure between 88-92*F. That's why the heat pad needs to be connected to a thermostat.

Temperatures - A temperature gradient from warm to cool maintains your leo's health. Here's a temperature guide for all leopard geckos as measured with the probe of a digital thermometer or a temp gun (and controlled by a thermostat set at 91*F/32.8*C):

• 88-92 F (31.1-33.3 C) ground temperature right underneath a leo's warm dry hide
• no greater than 82ish F (27.8ish C) air temperature - 4 inches above ground on the warm end
• no greater than 75 F (23.9 C) air temperature - 4 inches above ground on the cool end

Leave the heat mat/UTH on 24/7. At night turn off overhead lighting/heating (~12 hours on and ~12 hours off) unless ambient room temperatures drop lower than 67ish*F (19.4*C). [/QUOTE]

 

[Sg612]

I'm removing the CHE altogether until I get a thermostat set up. The air temps of ~70 seemed too cool but evidently I'm highly underestimating the heat of the UTH. You'd think if it was too hot in there, that he would have went to the cooler hide?

Exactly, he would be avoiding the warm spot. He would not sit there to roast. You need a reliable thermometer. The analog reading may be off.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Can you buy a digital thermometer with a probe? The probe should accurately measure ground/surface temps. This may be more accurate than your analog.

acpart recommends this one:

Click: https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-drt-1...rmometer&qid=1549759880&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-5​