Mealworms vs. crickets ***mealworms win !!!

[Conched]

I am new to leopard geckos, having purchased my first leo about 2 weeks ago. Needless to say I have done hours of net searching researching the best husbandry practices, particularly feeding practices. It seems like most of the forum boards steer towards crickets as a staple diet or even a mix of crickets and mealworms.

Most of the breeder sites have care sheets available and I found that the overwhelming majority of the breeders recommend the use of mealworms and offer gut loading and supplement advice. Some of the breeders list the pros and cons of using either and a few have switched from crickets to exclusively mealworms. While I would agree that using mealworms is more convenient for a large scale operation the pros for the mealworms pertaining to growth rates seems to again tip the scales in favor of mealworms.

One of my initial concerns about keeping mealworms was that refrigeration is often recommended. No way am I putting mealworms in my refrigerator !!!

I purchased an initial batch of 50 small mealworms and placed them in the garage with a small piece of carrot in the container. (I also had a batch of about 30 crickets as I have been feeding both at mealtime). The mealworms have been eating the carrot and more importantly have grown over he course of a 1.5 weeks but none have pupated.

At this point I am going to stop with the smelly crickets and use just the mealworms and dust them once or twice a week with the appropriate supplements.

I would like to point out that while I m new to leos I have extensive experience with reptiles. I have raised ornate uromastyx, ball pythons (both wild caught and CB) , boa constrictors
(columbian and guyana), iguanas, box turtles, red eared sliders, assorted kingsnakes, hog snakes and probably more species that I can't even remember.

While I do not claim to be an expert with the husbandry of Leo's I look forward to sharing any experiences that I learn with this forum. There seems to be a good group of people here that do their best to offer considerate advice to both new and experienced leo owners.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Check this out: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...s/41492-feeding-mealworms-leopard-geckos.html

Breeders plan to sell their leos. The leos are not on a mealworm diet for life :-(.

Crickets do not need to be a smelly experience. I have been keeping crickets for years. They scarcely smell, if at all.

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-feeding-issues/68574-cricket-guidelines.html

Dietary variety is very important for leopard geckos. Here are some healthy choices:

Feed adult leos 3 times per week and young leos just about every day. For both young leos and adults, lightly dust crickets, roaches, grasshoppers, silkworms, hornworms, butterworms, mealworm pupae, freshly molted mealworms, and locusts (smallest locusts possible) with phosphorus-free calcium with vitamin D3 (and multivitamins including vitamin A acetate) according to the directions on the container.

 

[Conched]

Check this out: http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...s/41492-feeding-mealworms-leopard-geckos.html

Breeders plan to sell their leos. The leos are not on a mealworm diet for life :-(.

Crickets do not need to be a smelly experience. I have been keeping crickets for years. They scarcely smell, if at all.

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...-feeding-issues/68574-cricket-guidelines.html

Dietary variety is very important for leopard geckos. Here are some healthy choices:

Feed adult leos 3 times per week and young leos just about every day. For both young leos and adults, lightly dust crickets, roaches, grasshoppers, silkworms, hornworms, butterworms, mealworm pupae, freshly molted mealworms, and locusts (smallest locusts possible) with phosphorus-free calcium with vitamin D3 (and multivitamins including vitamin A acetate) according to the directions on the container.

Hi Elizabeth,

I have read the mealworm information you attached, it is the first sticky in this section. I found a few discrepancies concerning some of the nutritional data cited, but I do feel it is sound advice with good intentions. I do think a varied diet is important and I do intend to feed crickets a few times a month.

I have not found any other options available locally but mealworms and crickets is not a terrible variety.

I do not seem to have any issues with the supplement sticking to the mealworms, so I am not sure where the author came up with that data either.

Several of the well known breeders do feed mealworms for life, not just to fatten up the juveniles and sell them.

Breeders need to keep their animals in peak condition in order for reproduction to be successful especially on a commercial level.

I will be in Deerfield Beach, FL later this week where there is a very well known herpetologist and Leo breeder, I will swing by his shop and discuss further with him. I will update the post with his feedback.

I have noticed there are strong feelings on this site against feeding mealworms but I am not sure they are based on facts.

Plus I might pick up another Leo or two while I am there

 

[Conched]

Hi Elizabeth,

I did read the sticky in the food and feeding section and I beleive the advice is well intentioned but I think there were a few discrepancies in the article. I have seen slightly different nutrional data for mealworms.

Breeders do feed the young leos mealworms and it does put weight on the juveniles but they do also feed their adults mealies for life.

I do agree that a varied diet is the best way to go and I would like to feed crickets occasionally but only as many as can be consumed in a few days.

I have not had any issues getting the calcium to stick to the mealworms.

I will be in Deerfield Beach , FL this weekend where there is a well known Leo breeder. I will swing by their shop and pick their brains bit. I am curious what their take is on the mealworm debate.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Mealworms are certainly more convenient for large breeding operations, but the reason they put weight fast on juvies is that they're higher in fat than some other feeders. Whether that's good or not for juvies is a matter of opinion, but it's probably not very good for adults. I mean, you can certainly keep adults on mealworms too, and it might be useful to feed them a diet higher in fat if they're being kept for breeding, but I personally opt for crickets since my girl is just a pet, and I prefer to keep her slightly thinner than most breeders keep their females. I've heard people complain about having difficulty with supplements sticking, but I never had trouble with it when I fed mealies and dusted with Repashy. Maybe it depends on brand - I don't know.

Kept right, though, crickets don't have to be smelly. I get 2 dozen at a time. I put them in a 10 gallon with a few inches of peat moss and empty paper towel rolls. Every time I get more, I throw out the top later of peat moss and replace the paper towel rolls. Never had an issue with smell that way. I tried once with just paper towels on the bottom, and that smelled horrid. X)

~Maggot

 

[Conched]

Maggot,

The Flukers with D3 no Phosphorus sticks to the mealies quite nicely.

My leo is a sub adult so she is still has a bit of growing to do. Right now she takes about 5 large mealworms once a day. I will cut that back once she is full grown. I have been gut loading the mealies with cat food and carrots. I have not decided on a vitamin supplement as of yet.

Have you tried the Repashys vitamin powder ?

 

[Xaila]

In all honesty, I prefer Dubia roaches to both of these. I haven't had much luck in getting baby geckos interested in dubia nymphs though. They seem to like the activity of the small crickets. My adults leos LOVE dubia though!

 

[Conched]

Here is a link to a feeder insect supply company that has listed the nutritional data of the 5 most common feeder insects. They claim a nutritional analysis firm in New Jersey did the analysis.

Contact Us

 

[Mardy]

In all honesty, I prefer Dubia roaches to both of these. I haven't had much luck in getting baby geckos interested in dubia nymphs though. They seem to like the activity of the small crickets. My adults leos LOVE dubia though!

I love dubias as well, but my hatchlings seem to take on mealworms a lot easier than dubias. So while I'm a breeder/hobbyist, feeding mealworms have little to do with convenience, it has more to do with the fact that hatchlings seem to eat mealworms by instinct, while dubia nymphs just sit there in the dish. I've tried, it's just harder to get the lil ones to eat dubia nymphs.

So I always start them off on mealworms, so they can start eating sooner. Then after a month I'll start to introduce dubia roaches to them. And when they get larger, I'll introduce superworms. What they're fed as a staple depends on what they prefer really, and it's quite a 50/50 whether a gecko prefers super or dubia, while some would take on both which is the ideal situation.

Unfortunately for some people that live in Florida, they can't have dubia roaches as it's illegal. So they have to supplement their variety with something else like crickets. I personally don't like crickets, but for some they have no choice. Well I suppose they could try silkworms or phoenix worms, but then silkworms and phoenix worms are not always liked by geckos either.

 

[Embrace Calamity]

Maggot,

The Flukers with D3 no Phosphorus sticks to the mealies quite nicely.

My leo is a sub adult so she is still has a bit of growing to do. Right now she takes about 5 large mealworms once a day. I will cut that back once she is full grown. I have been gut loading the mealies with cat food and carrots. I have not decided on a vitamin supplement as of yet.

Have you tried the Repashys vitamin powder ?

Cat food? I'd be wary of that. Most cat food, unless it's high-end organic stuff, has a bunch of crap in it. I won't even feed most cat food to my cats, let alone would I want it going to a reptile.

As far as I'm aware, Repashy doesn't have a "vitamin powder." They have Calcium Plus, which is an all-in-one supplement intended to be used on its own. The Fluker's stuff, as far as I can see, contains only calcium and vitamin D3, so hopefully what you're gutloading with covers enough of the other vitamins and nutrients they need, especially for a juvenile who's still growing.

~Maggot

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Maggot,

The Flukers with D3 no Phosphorus sticks to the mealies quite nicely.

My leo is a sub adult so she is still has a bit of growing to do. Right now she takes about 5 large mealworms once a day. I will cut that back once she is full grown. I have been gut loading the mealies with cat food and carrots. I have not decided on a vitamin supplement as of yet.

Have you tried the Repashys vitamin powder ?

1) Find a better food for your mealies. Mealies are not as nutritious as crickets.

2) Feeding carrots to feeders is counterproductive to achieving the Ca ratio we wish to achieve: 1.5-2.0:1.0 for feeders fed geckos. Carrots have a 1:2.3 Ca.

2) Dry oatmeal is not especially good either

3) Dog, cat, puppy, kitten food is not good for food destined for geckos: higher protein and fat than recommended

4) Fluker's with D3 is one of the calcium powders HIGHER in vitamin D3. Rep-Cal calcium with D3 has the highest D3 IU/kg :-(

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Hi Elizabeth,

I have read the mealworm information you attached, it is the first sticky in this section. I found a few discrepancies concerning some of the nutritional data cited, but I do feel it is sound advice with good intentions. I do think a varied diet is important and I do intend to feed crickets a few times a month.

I have not found any other options available locally but mealworms and crickets is not a terrible variety.

I do not seem to have any issues with the supplement sticking to the mealworms, so I am not sure where the author came up with that data either.

Several of the well known breeders do feed mealworms for life, not just to fatten up the juveniles and sell them.

Breeders need to keep their animals in peak condition in order for reproduction to be successful especially on a commercial level.

I will be in Deerfield Beach, FL later this week where there is a very well known herpetologist and Leo breeder, I will swing by his shop and discuss further with him. I will update the post with his feedback.

I have noticed there are strong feelings on this site against feeding mealworms but I am not sure they are based on facts.

Plus I might pick up another Leo or two while I am there

Conched ~

Look forward to your feedback after you talk with the breeder you mention.

Reptile shows are a good source for varied feeders. Often "specialty" foods like silkworms and hornworms must be ordered online.

 

[Conched]

Gut loading with carrots does add moisture and nutrients to the mealworms and I always have a fresh supply on hand. I would like to try adding some legumes such as lentils to the mix.They are high in protein and are rich with other vitamins and minerals. I just am not sure if the mealworms can eat them in an uncooked state.

The cat food will suffice as additional protein for the gut loading until i can find a suitable and convenient replacement.

To be clear, I am experimenting with finding a food source that offers high nutritional value for the gecko but also fits into my lifestyle.

I am not married to the Flukers it was the only option available. I have used Rep-cal in the past, I know I can pick that up in Florida tomorrow. I wonder how TSA will feel about me smuggling the powder on the plane !!!

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

Gut loading with carrots does add moisture and nutrients to the mealworms and I always have a fresh supply on hand. I would like to try adding some legumes such as lentils to the mix.They are high in protein and are rich with other vitamins and minerals. I just am not sure if the mealworms can eat them in an uncooked state.

The cat food will suffice as additional protein for the gut loading until i can find a suitable and convenient replacement.

To be clear, I am experimenting with finding a food source that offers high nutritional value for the gecko but also fits into my lifestyle.

I am not married to the Flukers it was the only option available. I have used Rep-cal in the past, I know I can pick that up in Florida tomorrow. I wonder how TSA will feel about me smuggling the powder on the plane !!!

Don't buy the Rep-Cal calcium with D3 or Rep-Cal Herptivite. The Rep-Cal has way too high a level of D3. Zoo Med's Reptivite with D3/A acetate is best.

The reason carrots are contraindicated is the Ca level. Carrots are 1:2.3. The ratio we need to shoot for in feeding insects and worms destined for gecko tummies is 1.5-2.0:1.0.

 

[Conched]

Don't buy the Rep-Cal calcium with D3 or Rep-Cal Herptivite. The Rep-Cal has way too high level of D3. Zoo Med's Reptivite with D3/A acetate is best.

The reason carrots are contraindicated is the Ca level. Carrots are 1:2.3. The ratio we need to shoot for in feeding insects and worms destined for gecko tummies is 1.5-2.0:1.0.

I swung by Ben Siegels Reptiles when I was in FL but Ben was not there so I could not pick his brain. They feed their Leos crickets and mealworms, but that is what discussed wth one of their employees.

They had over 50 geckos in stock, it was pretty cool looking at that many different morphs.

 

[Elizabeth Freer]

PS:

A "No" about feeding cat food to feeders destined for geckos tummies. Would only feed sources that hold about 20% protein and less than 5% fat. We are what we eat.

 

[Conched]

O.k. so back to meal worms. Here is a quote from Ron Tremper's care sheet on his website. I am sure most Leo fans are familiar with Ron.

"Live insects are a must for your gecko; they do not eat plants or veggies. The best items to use are mealworms or crickets, but you can treat your pet to waxworms or superworms once a week if you wish. We have used regular mealworms (Tenebrio molitor) without health issues for since 1978."

Another breeder Embergeckos feeds meal worms exclusively.

Gecko's Etc. is another online breeder who uses meal worms exclusively. Interesting read.

http://www.geckosetc.com/care.html

I am thinking I will stick with the mealworms as a staple, but I will pick up crickets at least once a week because it is really cool watching her hunt them down.

I need to nail down the gut loading of the mealworms.

 

[cricket4u]

O.k. so back to meal worms. Here is a quote from Ron Tremper's care sheet on his website. I am sure most Leo fans are familiar with Ron.

"Live insects are a must for your gecko; they do not eat plants or veggies. The best items to use are mealworms or crickets, but you can treat your pet to waxworms or superworms once a week if you wish. We have used regular mealworms (Tenebrio molitor) without health issues for since 1978."

Another breeder Embergeckos feeds meal worms exclusively.

Gecko's Etc. is another online breeder who uses meal worms exclusively. Interesting read.

Geckos Etc. Herpetoculture | Care

I am thinking I will stick with the mealworms as a staple, but I will pick up crickets at least once a week because it is really cool watching her hunt them down.

I need to nail down the gut loading of the mealworms.

Hi,

It's really not a good idea to feed mealworms as a staple. You'll end up with an overweight lazy leo over time(very common, people are just unaware). There was a study performed by Mark D. Fink which focused on increasing Calcium and vitamin A. The crickets did well increasing in a linear fashion, however the mealworms did not do as well. They simply do not gut load well. The nutrition in insects vary quite a bit, therefore I suggest to offer a well varied diet.

 

[Conched]

Hi,

It's really not a good idea to feed mealworms as a staple. You'll end up with an overweight lazy leo over time(very common, people are just unaware). There was a study performed by Mark D. Fink which focused on increasing Calcium and vitamin A. The crickets did well increasing in a linear fashion, however the mealworms did not do as well. They simply do not gut load well. The nutrition in insects vary quite a bit, therefore I suggest to offer a well varied diet.

Wouldn't the over weight issue be caused by overfeeding ?

I would assume too many crickets could cause the same over weight issue ??

 

[cricket4u]

Wouldn't the over weight issue be caused by overfeeding ?

I would assume too many crickets could cause the same over weight issue ??

Well in general any food item in excess can lead to obesity, however this was not the reason behind my statement. As sedentary geckos kept in captivity, you really want to give them a reason to do a little exercise and this is where the crickets come in. Walking 2 inches to eat mealworms (which have about 3x's more fat than crickets)out of a dish is not doing these guys any favors. The crickets allow them to hunt which serves as exercise and use their hunting instincts as well.